Britain is one of the very few countries in the developed world NOT to have an armed police force. This is patently disastrous (as shown by the gunning down of two unarmed WPCs yesterday) for law and order in this country. The criminals (who, after all don't give two shits about the law prohibiting firearms) are regularly armed. The police should be in a position to defend themselves and members of the public.

Cue the usual bleeding hearts bleating about that Brazilian blokey etc etc etc...

Wouldnt it be great if the police had guns aswell. Then we could see things like shootouts onthe streets and develop an even more trigger happy police dept. When the killers of that cop are caught theyl never leave jail. The reason the streets of britain arent like those of the states is because the cops dont carry weapons therefore there arent that many gun conflicts

Of course they shouldn''t be be armed - we should.

13 police shot dead in 20 years answers this question easily. Given that anybody cares, ONLY a total moron would see this unbelievable low figure as anything other than a justification for a NO GUN policy.

So, logically, there is NO DEBATE AT ALL. So, if there is a debate, it is most certainly NOT for any logical reasons. Thus we are straight into psy-ops, we should be apparent to all, given the saturation coverage on the Mass Media.

So, what do the psy-ops goons want from us. Answer- that Blair's murderous power confronts us on a daily basis. He (and thus his New Reich goons here and elsewhere) wants us to see his state thugs wielding murder machines that we KNOW can and will be used against us without penalty, if we step out of line.

The game is FEAR. When the game is played properly, the threat is more than good enough to suppress the vast majority of us, so the actually killing part stays rare. Ironically, the price of instilling this fear is a MASSIVE increase in the numbers of policepersons who will be shot in any given year (as proven by nations that already use these methods). Of course, more dead police is of no more concern to Blair or his New Reich goons than more dead "soldiers" in Afghanistan or Iraq. They are just "cannon fodder" whose expenditure is just a means to an end.

REMEMBER- the New Reich will NEVER engage in a logical argument, any more than the Third Reich did before them. Instead, Blair's methods are purely ones of abuse of power, especially violence, psy-ops and black propaganda. HE controls the Mass Media agenda, which is the main reason places like this are under constant press attack. Blair's chosen battlegrounds are places where he thinks he has an excellent chance of victory. Never fight a battle at a time and a place of your enemy's choosing, unless you have no other choice.

"13 police shot dead in 20 years "

Well I'm against arming the Police, but the first question anyone considering Twi'i't's comment is going to pose it how many were shot and injured, or killed/injured by other weapons.

To quote Vic Reeves, 96.35% of statistics are made up on the spot....

OK, lets say I take twilight's word for it with the statistics. 13 in 20 years. But when you think about it, that isn't as low as it seems. A lot of cop murders were recent. Look at that cop who was shot by the yank. Then there are the ones that aren't shootings. That special branch officer who was stabbed by the Algerian terrorist. And I'm sure with the social decay and the influx of immigrants, the amount of cops being killed will only icrease. They need guns.

giving your agenda away here mate ... immigrants are inherently disposed to shoot cops? And social decay, rather than reversing the thatcherite 'society doesn't exist' capitalism (now theres a fucking prime ASBO candidate!), we should just shoot the poor atomised fuckers.


Funny how everytime an ordinary person is shot theres a call to ban or further restrict public guns, when every time an agent of the state (innocent or not) is shot, theres a call to further arm the state.

He's just a sad old racist ex-pat who lives in terror of "natives" raping his arse while forcing him to listen to reggae.

Fear of the different is for weak little losers. Like you, Numpty.

Don't get me wrong here, I think thatcher's legacy was appalling. I think the whole idea of doing as you like without a thought for the consequeces to the wider community is appalling, and so is the unrestricted free market capitalism that went with it. These are some of the major causes of the social decay in Britain. But these aren't the only causes. Also there is the 'free love' and social permissiveness of the 60's and the acceptance of marxist ideas such as multiculturalism and feminism.

As for being an ex-pat, I don't know what gave you that impression. And I'm certainly far from being old!

Worth remembering mate that anything you say that even mildly contradicts a loony left ideology that puts multiculti on a pedestal and where no ethnic minority or working class person is every guilty of a crime and where the state and its 'hordes of totenkopf SS esque police' are constantly looking to beat people to a pulp on the streets, will be smacked down and accussed of being pro nazi.
Watch the stalinist editors remove this post and you'll see what i mean.

First of all, feminism and multiculturalism are not Marxist inventions. You may recall the Suffragettes; one of whom went on to become a Tory MP once she had won the right to vote. What's more is that multiculturalism is a liberal phenomenon, where the culture is usuall implicitly linked with a religion; all religions of which Marxism is implacably opposed to.

Secondly, I'm glad you made the comparison between the police and the SS because there have been 1,000 civilians murdered by the police between 1969 and 1999 in Britain. (quoted from the 'Injustice' video about people murdered by the police - See the Injustice website for more info). In the majority of cases the victim was black but some cases were against white, working class people. (NB: I'm not sure if these figures include Catholics murdered by the RUC in Northern Ireland).

The figure quoted by the BBC was about 200 police killed on duty since 1830 when the modern force was invented. Given that the police are so much more adept at murdering members of the public than vice versa, it would be more logical to be campaigning for civilians to be issued with guns in order to protect themselves from the police.

Also, I doubt if John Stevens (ex-Met Chief) would be so quick to call for the return of the death penalty if it was going to apply to pigs who murdered innocent people. My final point on the police would be to recall a Daily Telegraph headline from Nov 2003 tiled 'Scandal of Nazi police' about how the BNP has dozens of paid up members in London, the west mids and the north west. I also recall a story a few years ago about how Natinal Front material was being passed around a London police office. Clearly no Nazis in that organisation then!

Police have ‘murdered’ 1,000 civilians murdered by the police between 1969 and 1999 in Britain?

First off, the police are civilians.

Second, pull up a news (yes, big scary corporate news) article that backs up the claim that the police have killed 1000 people between 69 and 99. Fuck it, find one that says the police have killed 1000 people in the last century.

I’d rather listen to a corporate news article that a video titled ‘injustice’ ‘about people murdered by the police.’ – Really unbias sounding don’t you think? And you quote the BBC below anyway...

“The figure quoted by the BBC was about 200 police killed on duty since 1830 when the modern force was invented. Given that the police are so much more adept at murdering members of the public than vice versa, it would be more logical to be campaigning for civilians to be issued with guns in order to protect themselves from the police.”

Yes, because armed robbers who are willing to kill shop owners, members of the public, and unarmed police women are less of a threat than the po-po? So you’re against all police being armed (I am too), but you think its more logical for members of the public to have guns than for the police to be armed? It’s a pretty safe guess that there are more criminals that cops, and that armed robbers kill and injure more people than cops, yet you think the cops are more dangerous? Do you think a police officer would go out and kill random members of the public for personal gain? Do you think a man (or woman, lets not be sexist) that’s willing to kill unarmed police would care about killing you or your family during a robbery?

‘My final point on the police would be to recall a Daily Telegraph headline from Nov 2003 tiled 'Scandal of Nazi police' about how the BNP has dozens of paid up members in London, the west mids and the north west.’

Okay, so there are apparantly ‘dozens’ of BNP payed cops. Since when was the BNP a criminal organisation able to infultrate the police? When I last looked they were a bunch of washed out hooligans looking for some ‘pakis’ to beat up. And even if it was true, I think there’re more than a few dozen cops in the police. ‘Dozens’ doesn’t exactly bring images of a massive Nazi SS racist killing force. And there are racists in every large organisation. I doubt Sharon Beshenivsky was one of those ‘dozens.’

‘Clearly no Nazis in that organisation then!’

Well unless there are German cops in their 90s in the British police, I think the claim that there are ‘Nazis’ in the police is unlikely.

And lastly, why does indymedia allow;

“ ‘Dead Cops Now!
19.11.2005 18:41
Of course they shouldn''t be be armed - we should.
harry “

?

A police woman with five children has been killed on her youngest daughters birthday. Have a bit of heart you sicko.

The following is the web address for the Injustice film background story:

 http://www.injusticefilm.co.uk/filmfacts.html

The above link gives the quote of 1,000 civilian deaths in police custody between 1969 and 1999. I have just checked the BBC and it states that 36 police have died in the last 20 years while on duty. Most of these were in car crashes and not murders.

What you said was misleading. Your '1000 people murdered by the police' made me think of shooting incidents etc. That figure relates to deaths in custody, which could have been brought on by a number of things, most likely suicide, drug and alcohol abuse. I agree that 10000 people have probably died in custody, but I think a very minute number (if any) would have been brought on by police violence. Especially since the late 80s.

Don't they have an independant witness checking each police cell these days and asking each prisoner if they're okay? Not to mention the alcohol and drug re-hab people who ask each prisoner if they want any treatment.

The Injustice website says, "Between 1969 and 1999 over one thousand people died in police custody in England. Not one police officer has ever been convicted for any of these deaths."

Taken literally, this is entirely factual, but the implication given from the context that some police should have been convicted for some or even all of these deaths is highly misleading. In the absolutely vast majority of these cases, the reason why there were no convictions, indeed, no charges, is that there were no crimes. The deaths are not suspicious, disputed or unlawful.

Matters are worse when speed-reading activists translate "1000 deaths in custody" into "1000 murders by police in custody".

1000 deaths over 30 years is only 33 a year, a somewhat less dramatic statistic when put in those terms. I'd imagine that less than one of those per year is actually disputed or suspicious. But rather than imagining, how about Injustice displaying some intellectual honesty and telling us the exact number of cases they're campaigning about, rather than plying us with an unrelated, if accurate, statistic?

So how many is it? 1000, or somewhat nearer ten? If so, Injustice are guilty of a one-hundredfold exaggeration that seriously undermines its credibility, rather than helps it to campaign effectively on this serious issue.

"Don't they have an independant witness checking each police cell these days and asking each prisoner if they're okay? Not to mention the alcohol and drug re-hab people who ask each prisoner if they want any treatment. "

Never been arrested or in prison have you? Having sampled both, I can tell you I've never seen any such thing. Ever. The 'medical' when you get banged up is basically to check if you've still got a pulse and beyond that they don't give a shit.

I could recount endless examples from personal experience of why the cops shouldn't be trusted with lethal weapons (or indeed motor vehicles that go over 30mph), but I'm sure to anyone who's been on the wrong end of it, I'd just be stating the obvious.

This is a non-argument anyway. Any fool can do the maths - give cops guns and more people die. Unless you're fucked up in the head, you can't think that's a good thing.