I believe indymedia does censor posts depending on which collective in the world it is.
There are several reasons for this:
1. personal or political bias, for example Boston indymedia is notorious for for pushing it's maoist agenda.
2. National laws: for example it is OK and legal in America to say you are a member of the IRA or al-queda, and the police can't stop you because you have freedom of association (I.E. it against the US constitution to ban organizations or restrict freedom of speech or protest) , but you can get jailed in the UK if you call for the overthrow of the government.
3. Techinical problems, sometimes the stories have to be posted 2 or 3 times before they display.

see here  http://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/static/editorial.html for the IMC UK Editorial Guidelines
see the link to view all posts on that page
also here for comments  https://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/11/328181.html

if you wanna help moderate join the features list  http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-uk-features
also see what posts have been hidden from the front page and why

'OK and legal in America to say you are a member of the IRA or al-queda, and the police can't stop you because you have freedom of association'


Eh, American Anarchist, while you do enjoy certain privileges living in the centre of the Empire how can you state that you have the freedom to belong to al-quaeda ? Why doesn't Ossama just move to Texas to be with his familys friends, the Bushes ? Why haven't I noticed the Al-Quaeda Boston Branch Fundraising Dance - is that simply because there'd be no dancing or music ?

If the guy posting asking for info on the Bush threat to AlJaz in Quatar emailed IM asking why his posts are being hidden would someone email him back ?

I'm just curious, why is Roses post 'Sheffield BNP are vanguard for Sontaran invasion' invisible here even though it's not hidden ? Was it only posted on Sheffield IM ?



Act against inhuman refugee policy
D West | 12-12-2005 23:12 | Nottinghamshire
This post is showing in the newswire.


Sheffield BNP are vanguard for Sontaran invasion
Rose | 12-12-2005 22:29
This post is showing in the newswire.


Gov. Schwarzenneger Refuses Clemency for Tookie Williams
Sean M. Madden (iNoodle.com) | 12-12-2005 22:23
This post is showing in the newswire. 2 comments have been hidden because they contradict the Editorial Guidelines.

I received a response regarding this from Indy which I believe goes part way towards an answer:

"you are right, indymedia is based on open publishing. However, indymedia uk was set up for a purpose - see the mission statement. To meet this purpose, we have editorial guidelines. If an article clearly contains misinformation (infactual, inaccurate), and we are
aware of this, we hide such articles."

That, taking into account it is run by volunteers, presages many judgement calls - they may be good ones, bad ones, or perhaps somewhere in between. The one I commented on recently was (I believe) an inbetween case - that is, there was some fact mixed in with some fallacy (presumably to prove a point), and my issue with it was that I believe censoring should perhaps be more in the hands of responsible commenters - something to get to the bottom of, weed out the truth from the fiction (and in the process show a writer who has posted for less than noble reasons the errors of his or her ways, if necessary).

Unfortunately, hiding posts on NW stops the dialogue, but also unfortunately, so do 'hate' responses, or mud-slinging. So it can work out to be a lose lose situation - if people slighted resort directly to nasty words the heart of the issue cannot be explored through the comments - perhaps it is best to hide such articles - unless more people can work as volunteers to moderate such tricky postings.

I like the idea of being able to support good points made in a bad article (as I did the other day), as much as I then like to go on and point out (politely) ...'but unfortunately, this is not true, and nor is this,' etc.

So yes, I believe INdy articles are censored (and on some issues they should be more so) - but I do wish that sensible discussion could be the rule of thumb in comments rather than hasty 'button-pushing'.

Derek

Danny - that post was deselected for the uk, because it is not news in terms of the editorial guidelines. Because it had a local connection, the post was left on the Sheffield news wire - however it now appears to have been deselected from that news wire as well.

Therefore it is now hidden. You can access it at  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/12/329771.html.

Derek

" I do wish that sensible discussion could be the rule of thumb in comments rather than hasty 'button-pushing'."

Indymedia is a newswire - not a bulletin board, and comments are subject to the same guidelines as articles on the newswire.

 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/11/328181.html gives more details on how comments are dealt with.

“Our law does not criminalize beliefs or mere membership in an organization. A person who is in sympathy with the legitimate aim of an organization but does not intend to accomplish that aim by a resort to illegal activity is not punished for adherence to lawful purposes of speech.” - judge in the case of Palestinian activist Sami Al-Arian acquitted on charges in Florida on December 8th 2005
 http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/dec2005/aria-d08.shtml

"but does not intend to accomplish that aim by a resort to illegal activity"

Yes, those are indeed worthy platitudes but if you deny those you accuse of being Al-Quaeda suspects of any sort of civilian legal process then how can you distinguish between illegal and legal activity ? On the Presidents say so ?

My point is that the US state shouldn't be evaluated by the quality of its self-proclaimed ideals but by the actuality of its implementation of those ideals. And it's legal system, if all men are born equal as your constitution claims, should be applied to all those in Guantanamo Bay and its other darker prisons and proxy torture chambers regardless of nationality. The fact is the US state has no right under international law to extend its jurisdiction beyond its borders and that is your duty as an american anarchist to oppose your own state at least as thoroughly as you oppose foriegn terroristic states, and that means looking beyond the curtain of illusion.

" Danny - that post was deselected for the uk, because it is not news in terms of the editorial guidelines. Because it had a local connection, the post was left on the Sheffield news wire - however it now appears to have been deselected from that news wire as well."

I think photographic proof that that the Sheffield BNP are being backed up by an alien invasion fleet is a matter of national or even international concern. It at least merits as much consideration as any of the many pro-LaRouchite or David Icke type nonsense that often slips past your normally watchful and impartial gaze.

Okay, I guess it is nonsense but it is quality nonsense and I am grateful to the Doctors good assistant Rose for identifying the species for me. (Remember Rose, knife them in the back of the neck, it's their weak point).

The post I put up appears to have gone missing - basically what I said was this:

Discussion seems to be what is happening here now. That is to say, while it may not read like a BB it is effectively a lot of the time just that. Additions lead to questions, questions lead to arguments, arguments [hopefully] lead to resolution. And it makes it all the better when that happens (rare as it is).

The same thing occurs in newspapers - journos write stories, people send in letters to the ed to show their opinion on the story or the subject, sometimes people send in letters to other letter writers which in turn are published. So letters to the ed also become (at times) a BB. However, comments which contravene guidelines of slanders are not published in papers very often.

On IM, it happens more frequently than not, and while I appreciate that man power has a lot to do with it, it perhaps might be of benefit to acknowledge that this is how commenting is often used on IM newswire, and promote the rules of engagement a little better.

This isn't a criticism, more of a suggestion.

cheers,

Derek

I don't think your post is missing - I can see it in both lists. Sometimes existing pages in IM disappear and reappear intact a few minutes later. This is the same on any 'workgroup' type project and probably reflects the fact that since noone ever donates money to IM then they have to power their 19th century computing engine using the live kittens. For this reason if no other, never post here while you are tripping.

My first reaction to the time-warp problem was to furiously repost the same posts every few minutes, but luckily most people give up before the embarrassment of repeated identical posts. However, as on most websites, the most recurring and distracting question is 'why am I being censored just for breaking guidelines' and eventually the IMCistas will get run out of kittens and post more complete 'Guidelines-For-Dummies', and perhaps even eventually will even have a different 'hidden' message for each relavent guideline. Until then, you have to admit, the 'hidden' posts aren't really that hidden, so why they are 'hidden' surely isn't too important. The information still gets out there, just with a frowning, tsk,tsk issuing from the borg, sorry, collective.

Please watch Danny closely as I suspect that there are various people posting under the same name.

If you watch the form and content of the analysis, not to mention the quality of grammar and spelling, then I think you will concur that these are not all the same people.

"If you watch the form and content of the analysis, not to mention the quality of grammar and spelling, then I think you will concur that these are not all the same people."

Yeah ? Fair enough if you were suspicious about the times and frequencies of my posts as I do keep unusual hours and tend to post a lot for short periods of my life. Then I get sick of it and go and do something more worthwhile. And I do try to vary the form and content of my analysis - but I never manage that, it's always roughly the same shit from me. I try to progress my opinions but I've basically had the same politics for 20 years and could've written any of these posts in the 1980's. I see some mainstream lies, get angry, post here (or there), calm down, and sprinkle some lyrics where ever I can to distract from the quality and spelling (which I admit are both poor, as I am barely educated, I don't spell check and I rarely bother to proofread though I do always spot my mistakes minutes after hitting the CONTRIBUTE COMMENT button).

I'm the only person to have used the name Danny here over the past four weeks. There was a Donny and a FancyDan who are nothing to do with me, I posted soon after them just to differentiate. And I chose the name Danny as I like it - I don't expect it to be kept just for me, if another Danny starts posting then fair enough, I'll change my monicer and you can use your high level 'analysis' to identify that ! In fact, i like the fact that I can lose myself in a crowd of Dannys, I've never met a bad Danny, at least not one worse than me ;-)

Don't get paranoid, leave that to the IMC volunteers who can check IP addresses etc. If you want to get paranoid, then here is an admission you don't read everyday on IM - I get paid by the government to post here !







£109 a fortnight.

INdymedia censor posts, so what ?

Bristol indymedia censor posts and ban people from posting by logging thier IPs, so what ?

The person or people who run a site control it. What a suprise. I really cannot understand all this fuss.

All this 'no censorship' flim flam should not be taken too literally. It is clearly an ideal to strive for and is not meant to be a baton to criticise indymedias over.

Having said that I do think that indymedias should be more honest about thier own rule bending. At present some can act in a very similar manner to those they criticise the most when it comes to 'stopping' certain views being read widely. This is bizarre in my view.

There is a collective called D.A.N.N.Y. ( Dodgy Anarchists Never Need You ) but they aren't open to new members. Maybe you should join it's brother organistaion, DANIEL ( Dim Analysts Not Into Explaining Logic ). You should leave the paranoia to the IM volunteers who have access to the IP address/browser info and have presumably some experience of multiple-posters. I apologise for my variable spelling and grammar but I expect some examples if you are going to slur my content and form.

I have been the only person to post under the name Danny in the past four weeks, although there was a FancyDan and a Donny. There are other Dannys who doubtless posted here and will post here in future, so it's good you try to analyse it even if your analysis is completely useless . You should practice more, or could always ask ! However, I like posting under a generic name, just use the one name on any website to avoid confusion, and will change it only if someone else is using it. You are welcome to come here and watch me type this crap if you want but I can prove I'm Danny by listing all the greats :

Danny and his father live in an old gypsy caravan behind a filling-station, in the middle of the countryside. Danny thinks his father is "the most marvellous and exciting any boy ever had" but is shocked to discover that he has a deep, dark secret. Danny's father is a poacher – in the thick of night, he goes into Hazell's Wood to poach pheasants from the tyrannical Victor Hazell. As Mr. Hazell prepares to host the biggest shoot of the season, Danny and his father hatch a plan to poach all the pheasants from the woods.


Downstairs at Danny's All Star Joint
They got a juke box that goes doyt-doyt
A finger-snappin' deluxe
Make your be-bop bap
And your R&B hep-scat

You can't break the rules until you know how to play the game
But if you just want to have a little fun
You can mention my name
Keep your feet in the street
Your toes in the lawn
But keep your business in your pocket
This is it were it belongs




"This is the story of Danny and of Danny's friends and Danny's house. It is a story of how these three became one thing, so that in Tortilla Flat if you speak of Danny's house you do not mean a structure of wood flaked with old whitewash, overgrown with an ancient untrimmed rose of Castile. No, when you speak of Danny's house you are understood to mean a unit of which the parts are men, from which came sweetness and joy, philanthropy and, in the end, a mystic sorrow...."

1 How Danny, home from the wars, found himself an heir, and how he swore to protect the helpless.
2 How Pilon was lured by greed of position to forsake Danny's hospitality.
3 How the poison of possessions wrought with Pilon, and how evil temporarily triumphed in him.
4 How Jesus Maria Corcoran, a good man, became an unwilling vehicle of evil.
5 How Saint Francis turned the tide and put a gentle punishment on Pilon and Pablo and Jesus Maria.
6 How three sinful men, through contrition, attained peace. How Danny's friends swore comradeship
7 How Danny's friends became a force for good. How they succored the poor pirate.
8 How Danny's friends sought mystic treasure on Saint Andrew's Even. How Pilon found it and later how a pair of serge pants changed ownership twice.
9 How Danny was ensnared by a vacuum cleaner and how Danny's friends rescued him.
10 How the friends solaced a corporal and in return received a lesson in paternal ethics.
11 How, under the most adverse circumstances, love came to Big Joe Portagee.
12 How Danny's friends assisted the pirate to keep a vow, and how as a reward for merit the pirate's dogs saw a holy vision.
13 How Danny's friends threw themselves to the aid of a distressed lady.
14 Of the good life at Danny's house, of a gift pig, of the pain of Tall Bob, and of the thwarted love of the viejo Ravanno.
15 How Danny brooded and became mad. How the Devil in the shape of Torelli assaulted Danny's house.
16 Of the sadness of Danny. How through sacrifice Danny's friends gave a party. How Danny was translated.
17 How Danny's sorrowing friends defied the conventions. How the talismanic bond was burned. How each friend departed alone.

I don't even mind getting called Danny Boy as I've heard a good version of the Derry Air -

And when you come,
and all the flowers are dying
If I am dead,
as dead I may well be

Ye'll come and find
a place where I am lying
And kneel and say
an "Ave" there for me

And I shall hear,
though soft your tread above me
And all my grave
shall warmer sweeter be

For you will bend
and tell me that you love me
And I shall rest
in peace until you come to me

But if I live
and should you die for Ireland
Let not your dying thoughts
be just of me

But say a prayer to God
for our dearest Island
I know He'll hear
and help to set her free

And I will take your pike
and place my dearest
And strike a blow,
though weak the blow may be

Twill help the cause
to which your heart was nearest
Oh Danny Boy, Oh, Danny boy
I love you so.

It seems clear to me that IM do censor posts either by hiding or deleting what they don't like as has already been stated above. "It's a newswire not a discussion forum" (ad infinitum). But views are only deleted when regarded as unacceptable.

"£109 a fortnight."

I thought the dole/income support was £55.65 per week now (About £111 per fortnight).

Isn't Zaskar something to do with the Bristol server incident? Having said that he/she makes some fair points.

"And your R&B hep-scat"

I thought scat was a sexual paraphilia where people enjoy shitting on/getting shitted on by other people.

"How Danny was ensnared by a vacuum cleaner and how Danny's friends rescued him."

There aren't many young men who haven't succumbed to the charms of a vacuum cleaner.

"And I shall hear,
though soft your tread above me
And all my grave
shall warmer sweeter be"

I'll pour a sip on the concrete.

"But if I live
and should you die for Ireland
Let not your dying thoughts
be just of me"

The boys of the NYPD choir are singing Galway Bay,
And the bells are ringing out for Christmas Day.

Much of the news is a matter of opinion, and opinions can be news. Much news is biased, and subjectively chosen, and if Indymedia does not give the full opportunity to easily publish news or any opinions, it will limit itself and one more important standard is lost. More complex rules to publish have already occurred in several Indymedia sites around the world, for instance in Madrid, Japan and New York, Indymedia having been possibly seduced here by technological tricks and devices; a luxurious trait which has corrupted many organic societies and newsmedia. Also the archives have disappeared here and there. For students of for instance the International school for the Huanities and Social Sciences and many others this is a pity. There is- in other words- a global trend backwards to be seen, a form of 'digging' in. The news is getting more prozaic all the time, and Indymedia goes along. Poetry does not have much chance to rejuvenate our plight either. So one is falling asleep, or runs off in fear. Good luck anyway. The end seems to be getting closer this way, however.

Two years ago a cashline machine started giving me free money, which I immediately spent on a party. Turns out to have been a free, unrequested overdraft. Since then I've not checked my bank balance, but I'm delighted to hear belatedly about the rise in my job seekers allowance. This is a jobs website right ? I keep seeing requests for people to do work on various projects, although they never seem to mention a salary/pension. What is the take-home pay of a roads-protestor for instance ?

Scat is a singing style whatever else it means to you, although that song is dripping with innuendo so perhaps you are right.

Maybe you thought I was several posters because I have the ego to match. Though why you think I'd be watching you watching me is beyond me, I haven't even ever seen any of your posts before. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as you showed enough taste not to slag off Roald Dahls 'Danny, Champion of the World'. Slag me if you want but I do draw the line at you inferring something sexual from Dannys entanglement with a vacuum cleaner in Tortilla Flat and ask that you withdraw that unfounded slur.

"But I say, and the people of Tortilla Flat would say, “To hell with it. That Danny was a man for you!” No one kept actual count, and afterwards, naturally, no lady would willingly admit that she had been ignored; so that the reputed prowess of Danny may be somewhat overstated. One tenth of it would be an overstatement for any one in the world. Where Danny went. a magnificent madness followed. It is passionately averred in Tortilla Flat that Danny alone drank three gallons of wine. It must be remembered, however, that Danny is now a god. In a few years it may be thirty gallons. In twenty years it may be plainly remembered that the clouds flamed and spelled DANNY in tremendous letters; that the moon dripped blood; that the wolf of the world bayed prophetically from the mountains of the Milky Way."

Here's another self-indulgent, unnecessary and unnewsworthy confession. Just now I am getting an extra £15 quid or so for officially being on the New Deal Intensive Activity period. You would laugh if you haven't been through this day-prison for poor people, as Intensive Activity comprises a bunch of doleys sitting around with their head in their hands, looking at porn on the net or discussing criminal endeavours. Now we get £15 or so for this shit, and no discernable benefit except the 'discipline' of being woken up early and ordered around all day. What would stop you laughing though, and what makes me laugh, is this costs you the tax-payer £5-6000 per doley imprisoned for 13 weeks ! Seriously, the running costs for 300 doleys ( ie hundreds of grand profit ) are the local newspapers once a week and one or two unmaintained scrap-heap PCs with the cheapest net access you can find. None of the New Deal advisors are employable in any other role in society so I guess it does cut the dole figures slightly. Plus non of the day-prisoners count as doleys - I mean today I am not officially not a doley and to be perfectly frank I am as doley as they come.

Being effectively homeless they have little power over me. The first year I was put on New Deal I avoided it by changing my Dole Office every two weeks. I am still tempted to write a Lonely Planet type guide to Scotlands dole offices. Then it got too cold and I settled down in a pretty place for the winter, went in with a positive attitude and got royally fucked over by the private company running the day-prison.

This year I went into it straight off with all guns blazing, accepting none of their shit and it did me good for a while. I got shit back for refusing to sign a form promising not to look at unacceptable websites but that stopped me having to jobsearch. They let me be to do what I would've been doing anyway, including a political project of mine and stuff like posting here. Some lovely wee timid woman came up to me and said 'Are you allowed to do what you want ? They'd shout at me if I did what you do.' and I was able to say 'Aye, they shout at me too - the trick is to shout back and laugh at them'.

Then one of the instructors was stupid enough to be caught on two or three webcams showing a kiddie porn site to a reprobate doley in front of me, and I was quick enough to record that and the relevant computer files to my usb memory stick.

And that's my confession, I could have used that proof to help expose and discredit the whole of the immoral and illogical New Deal, to help others less lucky than myself but selflishly I chose to blackmail myself a few weeks holiday instead. My bad. This post is an attempt to make ammends to any of you poor suckers facing either enduring a New Deal or picking up the tab for someone elses.

Pauvre-moi. Lets all be standing for my personal international anthem...


Is there for honest poverty
That hings his head, an' a' that?
The coward slave, we pass him by
We dare be poor for a' that !
For a' that, an' a' that,
Our toils obscure, an' a' that,
The rank is but the guinea's stamp,
The man's the gowd for a' that.

Let This Open Letter Reach Mr. Howard Stern:


Ah, the Aussies crackdown on rioters. Good excuse to crackdown on political dissenters, wouldn’t you say so, Mr. Bush? Get the CIA to plant hooligan rioters in cities where the noises of insurrection are troublesome, for the purpose of stirring up riots and justifying heavy police presence. Just like in Iraq, yes and no?


Australia might now demonstrate for the world how martial law is easy for suppressors to inflict, under the citizens’ current apathy toward veiled and corrupted, democratically elected policy makers.


I hope you, Mr. Stern, will soon have something profoundly serious to blast throughout the satellite heavens - like the calling for Judgment Day and announcing the fall of George W. Bush and his worldwide Theocratic Bum-Buddies. As I know that you are not afraid of dying for the cause of international justice, if they try to harm you, they will incite mass insurrection upon themselves.


Here is our grip on Bush’s and the Council for National Policy’s balls:


By Compliant Bloggers International


This is how you bring kings into judgment and demand atonement, without using death threats on leaders or blowing yourself up in a public market. (If this will not work, then we might as well blow ourselves up, because there is no other hope in Hell)


[Place Links that have been established here.]

 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/12/329832.html
 http://ontario.indymedia.ca/twiki/bin/view/Ontario/IsAnyoneWatching
 https://israel.indymedia.org/mod/comments/display/4084/index.php

[Place Links that have been established here.]


A few notable Americans and a few notable Canadians have chosen a day that they will ‘disappear’ together for a few days, without telling their families and friends, so that there will be a loud cry that these individuals were abducted by a massive cover-up. The families know their self-elected lions and the work that they do, but they do not know this part of the plan. Others are welcome to link themselves with us, but they will have to choose their own days to disappear from family and friends during the holiday season.


We are not concerned that those who initially see no purpose in it will, because of intellectual snobbery, ignore this IndyMedia submission, but when they hear the loud cry of these families throughout North America and the World, they will rush back to see what has been opened that no man can shut, and shut that no man can open - or alter.


FORWARD THE JUDGMENT!


Season’s Greetings Earthlings…


Oh, and go ahead Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and Phyllis Schlafly - go straight to hell and do not pass go or collect $200.