UK Police Chief hints at Internment for Muslims Following New "Act of Terror"
Abu Turab | 19.10.2006 13:49 | Analysis | Anti-racism | Repression | Terror War | London | Sheffield
Last July, Ian Blair, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, said that another terrorist attack in London was inevitable. "I think there will be further attacks" he explained, "in fact I know there will be further attacks". (1)
His surety may be puzzling at first, but for those who believe that the attacks of 9/11 and 7/7 were 'Reichstag Fire' style events, essentially self-inflicted wounds designed to generate public outcry and allow the pursuit of political goals that would have otherwise been impossible to find widespread support for, his comments may be assessed in a much more troubling light. (2)
Last week, Commissioner Blair, speaking at a closed private meeting, reiterated his claims about future attacks and suggested that the British people should "brace themselves for a truly appalling act of terror". (3) According to details leaked by an shocked insider who was present at the meeting, Blair suggested that following this act of terorrism, "people would be talking quite openly about internment", also giving the impression that he would be leading the pro-internment lobby.
This helps put the puzzling front-page stories from the mainstream British media over the past few days into context. Frenzied rhetoric -- criticizing Muslim policemen, Muslim cabbies, and Muslim dress, to describe just a few of the stories circulating -- has served to raise anti-Muslim feeling among the public to such levels that MP George Galloway describes as "almost a pre-pogrom atmosphere". (4)
Coupled with the suspicious silence of the national press about the discovery by police of what is described as a record haul of chemical bomb-making components, together with rocket launchers, extremist literature and a nuclear biological suit (5) -- the story being confined mainly to small local papers -- serious questions can be raised about the underlying agenda of the press.
Unlike the other recent 'plots' involving chemical weapons, such as the fictional liquid-bomb plan, of which many of the accused didn't even have passports let alone tickets, and unlike the botched Forest Gate fiasco where over 200 men were involved in the police operation to raid a house, shooting a man in search of an imaginary chemical vest -- this operation actually did find a haul of chemicals and weapons. However, the culprits were white non-Muslims, which explains the lack of press conferences from Home Secretary John Reid, and the absence of front page headlines.
Something sinister seems afoot.
Back in 2002, the Detroit Free Press ran a story entitled "Arabs in US could be held, official warns". (6) The official referred to by the article is Peter Kirsanow, an appointee to the US Civil Rights Commission by President Bush, who claimed that in the event of another terrorist attack, there would be "a groundswell of public opinion to banish civil rights" since "the public would be less concerned about any perceived erosion of civil liberties than they are about protecting their own lives." Kiransaw warned about the possibility of internment camps for Arab Americans. Other sources have reported that FEMA (the US Federal Emergency Management Agency) has actually practised for such an occasion. (7)
This scenario then, is what Ian Blair may be pointing to. Following some new attack on British civilians (thereby providing maximum 'outrage potential'), possibly involving biological or chemical weapons, the media will be able to rouse the public to such an extent that talk of internment -- the imprisonment of innocent citizens without trial or charge -- will no longer be taboo among either the laity or the politicians
Journalist Peter Dale Scott reported in February of a little-known $385 million contract from the Department of Homeland Security to a Halliburton subsidiary, to provide "temporary detention and processing capabilities." (8) He cites Daniel Ellsberg, a former military analyst who in 1971 released the Pentagon Papers, the U.S. military's account of its activities in Vietnam, as suggesting that this is "almost certainly [a] preparation for a roundup after the next 9/11 for Mid-Easterners, Muslims and possibly dissenters."
This background makes recent laws passed on both sides of the Atlantic all the more worrying. The Military Commissions Act of 2006 (9), recently passed by Congress, "authorizes the President to seize American citizens as enemy combatants, even if they have never left the United States" according to Yale law Professor Bruce Ackerman (10). And "once thrown into military prison, they cannot expect a trial by their peers or any other of the normal protections of the Bill of Rights."
Meanwhile, following the liquid-bomb plot (which ex-ambassador Craig Murray (11), and other experts (12) have exposed as a fictional but politically useful propaganada diversion) Tony Blair is again planning to push through legislation -- allowing detention without charge for 90 days -- that was rejected last November following a rebellion by his ministers.
Labour MP David Winnick has said that the move would be "totally unjustified", but conceded that he fully expected ministers to use the latest terror scare to push for a longer period. (13) "Going back only a few years ago, police had just two or three days to release or charge suspects and that figure has repeatedly been increased by Parliament with little opposition", he explained. "The danger is that by increasing it steadily, you get up to 90 days and then people will start saying 90 days isn't enough."
Following the terror scare, John Reid (an ex-Communist 'enforcer', according to Murray) also revealed that he is considering introducing powers to put suspects (including British citizens) under house arrest, without being charged or convicted of any offence. (14)
All this is in addition to the highly controversial Civil Contingencies Act, passed in 2004, that allows police to enforce evacuations, restrict travel, destroy private property without compensation and ban peaceful protests. Planned amendments to the Act have proposed that police be given the right to detain anyone in the ‘vicinity’ of a suspected bioterrorist attack (which some suggest may be the type of attack the UK is expecting next) and also the prospect of internment without trial for British citizens. (15)
There's still more. Leaked documents, outlining a plan known as 'Operation Sassoon', (16) have detailed how the Government intends to evacuate London in the event of a terrorist incident. (17) The plans describe how citizens could be herded into "rest and reception areas" in the Home Counties. Worryingly, mention is made of long term rehousing if an attack makes an area uninhabitable, again raising the possibility of internment. (18) The then minister for London, Nick Raynsford, told The Sunday Times it was possible that areas of London could be evacuated even before any attack had happened. (19)
If a strategy for the internment of citizens was in the offing, nearly all the cogs and gears necessary to achieve it are already in place. A new terror attack, conveniently generating a helpful wave of national indignation, would be the catalyst needed to accelerate and seal the plan, and would be used to sell the idea to the public. This is the kind of outrage that needs to take place before the public mood is altered to the extent that Commissioner Blair can come public with his ideas.
Internment is not something new in the history of Western democracy. During World War II, the US forcibly interned thousands of Japanese Americans, most of whom were citizens, into hastily constructed housing facilities called "War Relocation Camps". (20) The British, apart from the more recent and notorious policy of internment in Northern Ireland, also interned many aliens, refugees, and even suspected enemy-sympathisers who were British nationals during the war. (21)
Also interesting, are archived newspaper reports describing how Germany, under Hitler, began with the internment of Communists in separate camps, citing difficulties in finding enough available places in state prisons. (22) Of course, as time progressed, these 'innocent' and 'justified' internment camps became increasingly sinister, being converted into death camps in which many people perished. It might therefore be worrying to see many recent articles in the national media indicating that UK prisons are close to reaching capacity, with the press calling for novel solutions. (23)
History has a remarkable way of repeating itself. (24) The actors vary but the struggles are constant. Our age has already seen a new Reichstag Fire, followed by 'Enabling Acts' in both the US and the UK. It seriously seems as though concentration camps and full-blown fascism may be next on the agenda.
The head of Scotland Yard's anti-terrorist squad during the late 1980s and early 1990s, George Churchill-Coleman, is not the only one that can read the trends. "I have a horrible feeling that we are sinking into a police state" he suggested, "and that's not good for anybody". (25)
Especially for Muslims, who could be amongst the first victims of such nascent fascist police states, the first victims of a new open genocide in Europe (26) and the first occupants of the internment camps that Ian Blair might have in mind. But certainly not the last.
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out. (27)
Notes
_____________________
(1) "Met chief warns of another attack"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5156968.stm
(2) "London Bombings Data Page" -- see especially the excellent analysis of comments by Peter Power
http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives/london/index.htm
(3) " EXCLUSIVE: Sir Ian Blair Says New Terror Attack Could Lead to Internment"
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2006/10/exclusive-sir-ian-blair-says-new.html
(4) "The jackboots of our time"
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/george_galloway/2006/10/jack_boots_today_and_70_years.html
(5) "Chemicals Find: Two In Court"
http://www.pendletoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=8&ArticleID=1806619
(6) "Arabs in U.S. could be held, official warns"
http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_072002_camps.html
(7) "Foundations are in place for martial law in the US"
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/27/1027497418339.html
(8) "Homeland Security Contracts for Vast New Detention Camps"
http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=eed74d9d44c30493706fe03f4c9b3a77
(9) "RIP, Bill of Rights, RIP"
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/October2006/011006RIP.htm
(10) "Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism"
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2006/290906torturebill.htm
(11) "The UK Terror plot: what's really going on?"
http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archives/2006/08/the_uk_terror_p.html
(12) "Ex-UK Intel Official says Liquid Explosive Claims 'Fiction'"
http://nafeez.blogspot.com/2006/09/ex-uk-intel-official-says-liquid.html
(13) "Terror alert: Blair to force through 90-day detention"
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1178302006
(14) "Reid wants to bypass human rights law and intern suspects"
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article1220495.ece
(15) "Blunkett plans jail without trial"
http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=34572004
(16) "Operation Sassoon"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sassoon
(17) "More Order out of Chaos..."
http://www.stanley2002.org/stories/091803/09180357.htm
(18) "Martial Law"
http://www.policestateplanning.com/chapter_10.htm
(19) "London could be evacuated if attacked"
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/07/1062901944298.html
(20) "Japanese American internment"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment
(21) "Internment"
http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/internment
(22) "Communists to be interned in Dachau" -- see date
http://www.guardian.co.uk/fromthearchive/story/0,,1735980,00.html
(23) "Jails are full – what do we do with criminals?"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/09/nprisons209.xml
(24) "When History Repeats..."
http://www.ihrc.org.uk/show.php?id=930
(25) "Britain 'sliding into police state'"
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/attacks/story/0,1320,1400586,00.html
(26) "The next holocaust"
http://www.newstatesman.com/nssubsfilter.php3?newTemplate=NSArticle_World&newDisplayURN=200512050006
(27) "First they came", a poem attributed to Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...
Last week, Commissioner Blair, speaking at a closed private meeting, reiterated his claims about future attacks and suggested that the British people should "brace themselves for a truly appalling act of terror". (3) According to details leaked by an shocked insider who was present at the meeting, Blair suggested that following this act of terorrism, "people would be talking quite openly about internment", also giving the impression that he would be leading the pro-internment lobby.
This helps put the puzzling front-page stories from the mainstream British media over the past few days into context. Frenzied rhetoric -- criticizing Muslim policemen, Muslim cabbies, and Muslim dress, to describe just a few of the stories circulating -- has served to raise anti-Muslim feeling among the public to such levels that MP George Galloway describes as "almost a pre-pogrom atmosphere". (4)
Coupled with the suspicious silence of the national press about the discovery by police of what is described as a record haul of chemical bomb-making components, together with rocket launchers, extremist literature and a nuclear biological suit (5) -- the story being confined mainly to small local papers -- serious questions can be raised about the underlying agenda of the press.
Unlike the other recent 'plots' involving chemical weapons, such as the fictional liquid-bomb plan, of which many of the accused didn't even have passports let alone tickets, and unlike the botched Forest Gate fiasco where over 200 men were involved in the police operation to raid a house, shooting a man in search of an imaginary chemical vest -- this operation actually did find a haul of chemicals and weapons. However, the culprits were white non-Muslims, which explains the lack of press conferences from Home Secretary John Reid, and the absence of front page headlines.
Something sinister seems afoot.
Back in 2002, the Detroit Free Press ran a story entitled "Arabs in US could be held, official warns". (6) The official referred to by the article is Peter Kirsanow, an appointee to the US Civil Rights Commission by President Bush, who claimed that in the event of another terrorist attack, there would be "a groundswell of public opinion to banish civil rights" since "the public would be less concerned about any perceived erosion of civil liberties than they are about protecting their own lives." Kiransaw warned about the possibility of internment camps for Arab Americans. Other sources have reported that FEMA (the US Federal Emergency Management Agency) has actually practised for such an occasion. (7)
This scenario then, is what Ian Blair may be pointing to. Following some new attack on British civilians (thereby providing maximum 'outrage potential'), possibly involving biological or chemical weapons, the media will be able to rouse the public to such an extent that talk of internment -- the imprisonment of innocent citizens without trial or charge -- will no longer be taboo among either the laity or the politicians
Journalist Peter Dale Scott reported in February of a little-known $385 million contract from the Department of Homeland Security to a Halliburton subsidiary, to provide "temporary detention and processing capabilities." (8) He cites Daniel Ellsberg, a former military analyst who in 1971 released the Pentagon Papers, the U.S. military's account of its activities in Vietnam, as suggesting that this is "almost certainly [a] preparation for a roundup after the next 9/11 for Mid-Easterners, Muslims and possibly dissenters."
This background makes recent laws passed on both sides of the Atlantic all the more worrying. The Military Commissions Act of 2006 (9), recently passed by Congress, "authorizes the President to seize American citizens as enemy combatants, even if they have never left the United States" according to Yale law Professor Bruce Ackerman (10). And "once thrown into military prison, they cannot expect a trial by their peers or any other of the normal protections of the Bill of Rights."
Meanwhile, following the liquid-bomb plot (which ex-ambassador Craig Murray (11), and other experts (12) have exposed as a fictional but politically useful propaganada diversion) Tony Blair is again planning to push through legislation -- allowing detention without charge for 90 days -- that was rejected last November following a rebellion by his ministers.
Labour MP David Winnick has said that the move would be "totally unjustified", but conceded that he fully expected ministers to use the latest terror scare to push for a longer period. (13) "Going back only a few years ago, police had just two or three days to release or charge suspects and that figure has repeatedly been increased by Parliament with little opposition", he explained. "The danger is that by increasing it steadily, you get up to 90 days and then people will start saying 90 days isn't enough."
Following the terror scare, John Reid (an ex-Communist 'enforcer', according to Murray) also revealed that he is considering introducing powers to put suspects (including British citizens) under house arrest, without being charged or convicted of any offence. (14)
All this is in addition to the highly controversial Civil Contingencies Act, passed in 2004, that allows police to enforce evacuations, restrict travel, destroy private property without compensation and ban peaceful protests. Planned amendments to the Act have proposed that police be given the right to detain anyone in the ‘vicinity’ of a suspected bioterrorist attack (which some suggest may be the type of attack the UK is expecting next) and also the prospect of internment without trial for British citizens. (15)
There's still more. Leaked documents, outlining a plan known as 'Operation Sassoon', (16) have detailed how the Government intends to evacuate London in the event of a terrorist incident. (17) The plans describe how citizens could be herded into "rest and reception areas" in the Home Counties. Worryingly, mention is made of long term rehousing if an attack makes an area uninhabitable, again raising the possibility of internment. (18) The then minister for London, Nick Raynsford, told The Sunday Times it was possible that areas of London could be evacuated even before any attack had happened. (19)
If a strategy for the internment of citizens was in the offing, nearly all the cogs and gears necessary to achieve it are already in place. A new terror attack, conveniently generating a helpful wave of national indignation, would be the catalyst needed to accelerate and seal the plan, and would be used to sell the idea to the public. This is the kind of outrage that needs to take place before the public mood is altered to the extent that Commissioner Blair can come public with his ideas.
Internment is not something new in the history of Western democracy. During World War II, the US forcibly interned thousands of Japanese Americans, most of whom were citizens, into hastily constructed housing facilities called "War Relocation Camps". (20) The British, apart from the more recent and notorious policy of internment in Northern Ireland, also interned many aliens, refugees, and even suspected enemy-sympathisers who were British nationals during the war. (21)
Also interesting, are archived newspaper reports describing how Germany, under Hitler, began with the internment of Communists in separate camps, citing difficulties in finding enough available places in state prisons. (22) Of course, as time progressed, these 'innocent' and 'justified' internment camps became increasingly sinister, being converted into death camps in which many people perished. It might therefore be worrying to see many recent articles in the national media indicating that UK prisons are close to reaching capacity, with the press calling for novel solutions. (23)
History has a remarkable way of repeating itself. (24) The actors vary but the struggles are constant. Our age has already seen a new Reichstag Fire, followed by 'Enabling Acts' in both the US and the UK. It seriously seems as though concentration camps and full-blown fascism may be next on the agenda.
The head of Scotland Yard's anti-terrorist squad during the late 1980s and early 1990s, George Churchill-Coleman, is not the only one that can read the trends. "I have a horrible feeling that we are sinking into a police state" he suggested, "and that's not good for anybody". (25)
Especially for Muslims, who could be amongst the first victims of such nascent fascist police states, the first victims of a new open genocide in Europe (26) and the first occupants of the internment camps that Ian Blair might have in mind. But certainly not the last.
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out. (27)
Notes
_____________________
(1) "Met chief warns of another attack"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5156968.stm (2) "London Bombings Data Page" -- see especially the excellent analysis of comments by Peter Power
http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives/london/index.htm (3) " EXCLUSIVE: Sir Ian Blair Says New Terror Attack Could Lead to Internment"
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2006/10/exclusive-sir-ian-blair-says-new.html (4) "The jackboots of our time"
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/george_galloway/2006/10/jack_boots_today_and_70_years.html (5) "Chemicals Find: Two In Court"
http://www.pendletoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=8&ArticleID=1806619 (6) "Arabs in U.S. could be held, official warns"
http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_072002_camps.html (7) "Foundations are in place for martial law in the US"
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/27/1027497418339.html (8) "Homeland Security Contracts for Vast New Detention Camps"
http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=eed74d9d44c30493706fe03f4c9b3a77 (9) "RIP, Bill of Rights, RIP"
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/October2006/011006RIP.htm (10) "Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism"
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2006/290906torturebill.htm (11) "The UK Terror plot: what's really going on?"
http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archives/2006/08/the_uk_terror_p.html (12) "Ex-UK Intel Official says Liquid Explosive Claims 'Fiction'"
http://nafeez.blogspot.com/2006/09/ex-uk-intel-official-says-liquid.html (13) "Terror alert: Blair to force through 90-day detention"
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1178302006 (14) "Reid wants to bypass human rights law and intern suspects"
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article1220495.ece (15) "Blunkett plans jail without trial"
http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=34572004 (16) "Operation Sassoon"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sassoon (17) "More Order out of Chaos..."
http://www.stanley2002.org/stories/091803/09180357.htm (18) "Martial Law"
http://www.policestateplanning.com/chapter_10.htm (19) "London could be evacuated if attacked"
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/07/1062901944298.html (20) "Japanese American internment"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment (21) "Internment"
http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/internment (22) "Communists to be interned in Dachau" -- see date
http://www.guardian.co.uk/fromthearchive/story/0,,1735980,00.html (23) "Jails are full – what do we do with criminals?"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/09/nprisons209.xml (24) "When History Repeats..."
http://www.ihrc.org.uk/show.php?id=930 (25) "Britain 'sliding into police state'"
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/attacks/story/0,1320,1400586,00.html (26) "The next holocaust"
http://www.newstatesman.com/nssubsfilter.php3?newTemplate=NSArticle_World&newDisplayURN=200512050006 (27) "First they came", a poem attributed to Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...
Abu Turab
Homepage:
http://www.icssa.org/uk_internment.html
Comments
Hide the following 4 comments
'Reichstag Fire'
19.10.2006 15:49
Paul Edwards
9/11 7/7
19.10.2006 17:17
1. Both the New York and London emergency services were 'training' for the EXACT same disasters on the EXACT same day of the attacks. Coincedence?
2. Neither crime has ever been the subject of a police investigation.
3. Some of the alleged terrorists in both 9/11 and 7/7 were offical assets (that means agents in spook speak) of CIA and MI5.
I ain't going to go on becayse there is more than material on the web to make a case that these were false flag ops.
Welcome to the real world friend where the criminals and fascists now have all the power.
inside jobs
'Paul Edwards'- paid to troll Indymedia UK
19.10.2006 17:24
QUOTE
CENTCOM announced earlier this year that a team of employees would be "[engaging] bloggers who are posting inaccurate or untrue information, as well as bloggers who are posting incomplete information."
UNQUOTE
To learn about the operations of British Intelligence in the UK, turn to the US. You will be amazed how often the blunt truth is revealed there. Did you know, for instance, that the US military issued a press release STATING that they would be using black propaganda teams to create false news stories about Iraq, way back at the beginning of the invasion? Trolls like 'Paul Edwards' take advantage of research that shows that most soft-left activists have no accurate memory of the past, but instead have opinions massively influenced by the content of their poison of choice (eg., The Guardian or Channel 4 News) from the last few months. Such activists are known to almost never do research, and feel uncomfortable with those from their own movement that do (the guilt-jealousy complex). The exception, of course, lies with the ALPHA-MALE figures that such weak-willed individuals adopt as their 'daddy' leaders, like Benn, Galloway, or Chomsky. Thus we get into the pathetic mind state of "my daddy says this, so I ***don't*** believe you", the exact reason why the state gains such benefit from have people like Benn, Galloway and Chomsky as its agents.
Indymedia UK gets two types of comment. People like me, and people who directly troll on behalf of the GENOCIDE POLICIES of Blair's New Reich party. It should be clearly obvious why both sides think their comments useful.
Those that troll against the truth of 911 are also the holocaust deniers, and pro-soldier advocates. Don't believe me? Go do a little research into past comments. YOU KNOW WHAT THE STATE WANTS YOU TO THINK. State agents will talk and act in ways that correlate massively with the desires of the state. Look for the people that loved to quote the holocaust denial of Iraq-Body-Count (a british intelligence op set up for this purpose). Look for the people that demanded that you feel sorry for the british and US butchers that brought genocide to Iraq. Then notice how often these self-same people troll against those that say that the people that LIED over every aspect of Iraq and WMD (so-called) are the same people lying over every aspect of the 'official' 911 story.
YOU HAVE PEOPLE ON INDYMEDIA UK, SOME WHO HAVE CLEARLY INFLUENCIAL POSITIONS IN THE ACTIVIST MOVEMENT ***DEMANDING*** THAT YOU BELIEVE BLAIR AND BUSH OVER 911. Think about this for a few minutes. Everything that Blair has ever said, that has later been capable of direct research, has proven to be a lie. ***EVERYTHING*** However, so-called enemies of Blair DEMAND, DEMAND, DEMAND that you believe the central plank of every one of his genocidal acts.
THERE IS ONLY ONE CONCLUSION THAT CAN BE DRAWN FROM THIS. That conclusion matches perfectly with the reality of intelligence services that have BILLIONS of pounds to spend recruiting and paying agents to infiltrate movements known to threaten Blair's current and future war plans.
In the UK, these same people frequently DEMAND that you think the idea of infiltration stupid, childish, or unlikely. HOWEVER, FROM THE 50'S ONWARDS, THE US EXPERIENCE (WHERE THE GOVERNMENT IS FREQUENTLY FORCED TO BE MUCH MORE OPEN) SHOWS CONTINUOUS INFILTRATION OF ALL TYPES OF PROTEST MOVEMENTS, NO MATTER HOW TRIVIAL, OR WHITE AND MIDDLE-CLASS. There is no need to speculate. Documented history PROVES every word I say, and disproves the lying words of those (for obvious reasons) in the UK that tell you it can't and won't happen.
Again, Blair's trolls rely on this fact- namely that most britons in protest movements are severly inadequate personalities, and as such respond violently and negatively to those activists who base their opinions on facts and research. TO PUT IT PLAINLY, MOST IN THE ACTIVIST MOVEMENT DON'T WANT TO FEEL LIKE THEY ARE BACK AT SCHOOL, AND HENCE ADOPY A CLEAR ANTI-INTELLECTUAL POSITION. Ownership of a book by their favourite alpha-male 'daddy' becomes a substitute for thought.
So, next time you see a New Recih troll like 'Paul Edwards', remember they wouldn't be paid to post if they didn't know that currently their methods have some success.
twilight
4 twilight especially
24.12.2006 11:21
Please clarify what you are saying in your response. On one hand, you are claiming that Paul Edwards (or Chomsky, Galloway, etc.) are (effectively) state agents for the soft-left activists ... so, if this were true/verifiable, we should disregard what these people say because they are furthering the state's agenda. Essentially, what these agents say can be encapsulated succinctly thus: "the government is lying; the government is responsible for its atrocities; the government is attempting to engage full spectrum dominance". So, if they are furthering the state's agenda, are you wanting us to agree that the state wants us to blow the whistle on their activities, to declare that the emperor is naked, and call upon them to account for their crimes against humanity? Or, are you saying that these agents further the state's agenda by confusing people, leading them off elsewhere by distraction, sleight-of-hand? Or, are you saying that because these agents actually (appear to) do their own research, they further the state's agenda by sewing seeds of discontent among the activists who you - grandiosly and sweepingly - declare to be inadequate slack-offs who are jealous about those "alpha-males" such as Benn, Galloway, Edwards, et al.? Or, are you saying that these alpha-male agents further the state's agenda by leading people into a false sense of security that they know the truth behind what's going on, when meanwhile, back at the lab, a whole different set of activities are being executed? Please clarify what you are trying to say, because it really wasn't clear to me.
Just as a general point, it is entirely possible that your method of research in Indymedia may have a methodological problem: it is well-established trend among Indymedia that anyone can post under any name/handle or any number of different names/handles. If one uses different proxy servers one can't really use IP addresses either. Let's face it, most Net security gurus would advise people to use proxies if they can for general on-line security. So, if that is the only research you have done to establish your bona fides that those who deny the truth of 9-11 are also the holocaust deniers, of that they are also pro-war, or any other range of claims you deduce from the names/handles and associated comments, I would really like to see the evidence you are citing, primarily because the source of your data is so buggy as a starter: fruit from the poison tree, and all that.
Puzzled Peter