Estonia, Talinn: Riots- 1 dead, hundreds hurt, city devasted
c | 29.04.2007 15:47 | Repression | Social Struggles | World
Talinn looks like a city in war: shops, buildings are burning. Everywhere people are beaten by police.
Yesterday night thousands of people rioted because the governemnt brought to fall "the sovjet soldier" - a monument in the middle of the city that honoured the anti-fascist soldiers of the sovjet army who freed Talinn from the nazis in WW II.
Yesterday night thousands of people rioted because the governemnt brought to fall "the sovjet soldier" - a monument in the middle of the city that honoured the anti-fascist soldiers of the sovjet army who freed Talinn from the nazis in WW II.
Estonia became independent after 1990, and was a part of the former Sovjet Union. Estonia meantime is governed by a anti-russian far-right government that seems to regard the nazis as Estonias protecters and the sovjets, who fought them, as occupiers.
An angry protest against the destruction of the monument of the sovjet soldier turned into the heaviest riot Estonia has ever seen when police shot tear gas in the masses. Police was attacked with bottles and stones, the whole city cenre is devasted, shops are plundered, buildings in flames.
Many people are severly hurt. At least one protester was seen being beaten to death by police.
People begin to organize all over Estonia. The protests are expected to go on at least until may 9th a symbolic date in Estonian history.
Russian officials named Estonias government "rural country nazis". Russia freezed all its economic relations to Estonia. Even trains planes and ships are stopped.
VIDEOS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o_1pN7i5ZA&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGOXlz2lnLw&NR=1
An angry protest against the destruction of the monument of the sovjet soldier turned into the heaviest riot Estonia has ever seen when police shot tear gas in the masses. Police was attacked with bottles and stones, the whole city cenre is devasted, shops are plundered, buildings in flames.
Many people are severly hurt. At least one protester was seen being beaten to death by police.
People begin to organize all over Estonia. The protests are expected to go on at least until may 9th a symbolic date in Estonian history.
Russian officials named Estonias government "rural country nazis". Russia freezed all its economic relations to Estonia. Even trains planes and ships are stopped.
VIDEOS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o_1pN7i5ZA&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGOXlz2lnLw&NR=1
c
Comments
Hide the following 35 comments
murdering bastards
29.04.2007 18:00
Did anyone ask the Estonians whether they wanted Stalin in 1939? No. Did anyone ask them if they wanted Hitler in 1942? No. Did anyone ask them if they wanted Stalin back in 1944? No.
So what's it got to do with Russia if another sovereign country decides to relocate a statue? Or is Putin ready to start a new cold war?
d
........
29.04.2007 19:53
U obviously ignore the fact that million died alll over the world in the race against fasizm
Not only Russians, but British, Americans, Spanish, Greeks, French etcetc
So the statue symbolise the victory against fasizm by all the people who fought and die worldwide
My grandfather also fought and die during WWII (with the British troops in Egypt),
and the statue was a respect to him too although not Russian but a poor Greek
that left his family and sacrifise his self to give us our freedom
You are not only creating enemies in Russia
but worldwide
I am arleady one of them
I just cancelled my trip to Estonia
I stop buing anything that has that origin
All we should say not to the extreme right-wing goverment of Estonia
that with the money from USA
and with the excuse that Satlin did harm to the country
then Hitler is our heroe
and those who fought Nazism are scums
U spit on the grave of my grandad
and all those who fought and die against WWII
thus expect revenge from all of us worldwide
Omiros
the first comment = idiotic; boycott Estonia!!!
29.04.2007 21:24
27 million Soviets died saving Europe from fascism, a sacrifice which ultimately won the war - look at Germany's losses on the Eastern Front vs. Western Front... seriously, the western front was kiddy games!
now, estonia has become nationalistic, there government is apparently pro-Nazi, anti-Semetic, and especially anti-Russian... and they are apart of the E.U.????
i am an american and i will join in the embargo of estonian products!
estonia has just opened up a door that will weaken it severely!
L.K.
incredible news
29.04.2007 21:40
incredible...
Martin
Estonia needs our help
29.04.2007 22:15
Triona Carey
Homepage:
http://rulabula.blogspot.com
Historical ignorance makes you look stupid.
29.04.2007 22:47
and all those who fought and die against WWII"
Yeah, and your grampa's comrades also shot my grandmother's parents for owning a small farm, brought in the NKVD who systematically tortured my great-grandfather for a week because 20 years earlier he'd been an enlisted private in the Estonian Army, and my paternal grandfather was taken to a forced labor camp in Siberia on a cattle train, for the crime of being a Finnish national. He was lucky to survive and return 15 years later. Are we about even on the appeals to emotion and personal loss here?
This is not about your grandfather, this is about the uniform he wore and what that represents to the untold millions who the jackbooted thugs in those uniforms killed, deported, robbed, raped and enslaved. The vast majority of Soviet soldiers were blameless in this, but a statue celebrating the "Liberation" of Tallinn has no place in the middle of a city that was raped and pillaged by the Soviet leaders. The Soviet Union invaded us, wearing those very same uniforms, in 1940, well before the nazis ever showed up, and killed thousands of innocent civilians and landowners. The amount of innocent dead from the two Soviet occupations outnumbers the Nazi killings more than three to one.
We are not destroying the monument, nor are we desecrating the graves of the fallen soldiers (the Soviets built a trolleybus stop atop their remains in the 1960s). They were exhumed after Orthodox and Lutheran religious services, and will be relocated, along with the memorial, to the Military Cemetery of Tallinn. It is simply being removed from central Tallinn to remove the offensive political connotation given to it by the Stalinist cretins who rewrote history and invented the claptrap of "liberation". We respect the fallen soldiers and recognize their defeat of Nazi Germany, but a country that lost a third of its population due to Stalin's "liberation" cannot ever accept Soviet flag-waving in the center of her capital city.
Sam
And ignorance on contemporary events isn't any better.
29.04.2007 23:00
After re-independence, citizenship was AUTOMATICALLY granted to:
1. Ethnic Estonians
2. People whose ancestors lived in Estonia before the occupation, regardless of language skills or ethnic background.
Permanent residency was granted to everyone not under those categories. Citizenship is open to everyone who passes a basic fluency test of the Estonian language (language schooling is free of charge). Citizenship is not necessary for voting in local elections, public schooling is available in Russian nationwide, and Russian culture is supported from the public coffers. In the private sector, all retail is de facto bilingual, and where it's monolingual, it's nearly always monolingual in favor of Russian. A Russian has no trouble whatsoever in Tallinn, but an Estonian in Narva (95% Russian) is hard pressed to get by with Estonian.
Most of the Russian minority has been granted citizenship, with only about 9 percent of Estonian nationals being permanent residents.
As to your accusations of horrible racism, perhaps you'd care to explain why Estonia's Azerbajani minority yesterday released a statement praising the treatment of minorities in Estonia. You see, the Azerbajani are VISIBLE minorities, plus they're Muslims. Estonians and Russians look alike and are both of a Christian background.
Sam
War needed?
29.04.2007 23:29
Omiros almost has it right. But what we are seeing is far from Nazism, it is Hitlerism. The Government of Estonia has joined NATO and is intent on building the Global Fascsism that Hitler aimed for. That is why they remove the Memorial to those who stopped Hitler. They also sent troops to a foreign country imposing a Government of Quislings, participating at the behest of Gauleiters. Estonians help make things worse than they were under the Russians and the Taliban.
Ilyan
HOW You can tell these lies about Estonians and Russians, lies about riot?!??
29.04.2007 23:47
Estonia meantime is governed by a anti-russian far-right government
REALLY? Is that's why offer russian language education in Estonia? Is thats why we let them in SO easy (compared to others)? FAR-RIGHT?? Get real, u must be joking, everyone in estonia makes fun of the government becouse they are to soft.
U Say:
that seems to regard the nazis as Estonias protecters and the sovjets, who fought them, as occupiers.
SO YOU want to say they was not occupiers? Go and read history books, look what they have done whit us, then u will see! (i mean real history books, not written by commies)
Funny thing is, its illegal in estonia to sale Nazi symbolic, and every time when someone is discovered its russian... even better... its one of the guys of Night Wach patrul.. or whatever they call it, the bronze soldier protectors, ... think about it people..
U Say a next LIE:
An angry protest against the destruction of the monument of the sovjet soldier
NO ONE destruct it, we relocating it to right place, where other russian soldiers are located (and guess what, russians do not care about all these thousands of dead russians - there is no flovers there, u know why? BECAUSE no TV is filming the real semitary)
YOU say a BIGGEST Lie ever!
Many people are severly hurt. At least one protester was seen being beaten to death by police.
Where u got this information? Only dead russian, was killed by other russian after they get fight over the stuff they steal from shops (thats what people say who was there). U really think police was taking kicen knife and killed this russian whit this? (because he was killed whit knife, NOT beaten!)
YOU Say:
People begin to organize all over Estonia. The protests are expected to go on at least until may 9th a symbolic date in Estonian history.
I say:
Get real. !
And You say (if u really think so or is it a joke?):
Russian officials named Estonias government "rural country nazis". Russia freezed all its economic relations to Estonia. Even trains planes and ships are stopped.
hahaha, this is biggest joke ever. if russia would do it (of course they do not do it, they just talk) then RUSSIANS in estonia would get punished most. A lot of estonians would like if they stop the traffic, then we have less narcotics, and after all - russians will get punished by that.
We do not hate russians in Estonia, and Russians do not hate Estonians (most of them), just some groups of useless people ... and some extremists, thats all :)
And this Riot was not because of Bronze Soldier, it was mostly group of criminals act to just do only thing they can - destruction and stealing. Over 30 million of damages!!! To bad estonia police is to nice whit these vandals, to bad we have to soft government sometimes....
24 Years old guy, who is NOT far-right :)
Where u get ur news? Even russian version of delfi.ee is more honest...
WaffaDrunker
e-mail:
waffad@gmail.com
Homepage:
http://www.waffa.net
Yes, war is always the solution, Ilyan
30.04.2007 00:20
I would like to know from the mods, though, where my original post, that dispelled the factual errors in this post, was censored?
Scott
e-mail:
estoniakat@hotmail.com
Get your facts straight!
30.04.2007 00:33
angry
Estonia is blind to their past
30.04.2007 07:04
But like Sweden, Estonia has a dirty little secret. It sided with Germany in WWII and though not publicly will you find this information, you need to ask the older generation and they will tell you "yes Hitler was horrible" but we choose Hitler over the Russians.
So there you have it, the horrible secret that explains this. Russia was right to rid Europe of Hitler and his henchmen, however many Estonians feel closer to Hitler's Germany than Stalin's Russia.
This soldier was a bridge of peace and respect in the Russians eyes, it was not a symbole of agression or power but of change and hope for a better future. Unfortunatly Estonians only see Stalins Russia in this statue. They dont look at how Hitler affected the world, they selfishly look only at how Stalin affected Estonia.
The Soviet Soldier statue should stay, and one equal in size that symbols the Estonian "Brothers of the Forest" should be put beside it. Though both statues symbolize enemies in life, they can exist as symbols of peace after so many deaths.
The underying social pressure which is caused by discrimation from Estonians against Russians also should stop. I see so many horrible acts of senceless discrimation in Estonia, I find it uncivilzed and and dignified, two traits that normally I would say are found in every Estonian, excpet however they have not leared to accept and love their brother Russians.
Daniel Bath
e-mail:
daniel@smedia.info
Homepage:
http://www.smedia.info
Hugh, journalist who was there
30.04.2007 07:29
2. The Estonians view both the Nazis and the Soviets as illegal genocidal occupants. According to the vast majority of Western historians, this is because both sides occupied Estonia illegally and committed crimes against humanity.
3. The man who was killed died of a stab wound after a fight with a drunken looter. There is no evidence that he was "beaten to death" by police, and a lot that he wasn't.
4. Next time check your facts.
Hugh Walker
Estonian point of view.
30.04.2007 07:41
But the "Riot" finally wasn't about the Bronze Soldier, it turned out to being about stealing and destruction. Peolpe who broke in to shops and stole things didn't show their respect to the dead, they showed their own gread. If you want to show that you respect the dead you shouldn't break in to Armani shops to steal.
Kay
FALSE INFO
30.04.2007 08:00
Do you, the writer of this article, really consider yourself as a news writer? I think this is a anti-Estonian propaganda, not a proper news! No-one has been beaten to death by our police. The dead russian rioter/looter was killed by another russian rioter/looter.
Kristjan
e-mail:
prygila2@hot.ee
Restoring the Heroin supply stopped by the Taliban
30.04.2007 08:26
Perhaps a moderator hid your prevoius comment to protect you from making a fool of yourself. I did not see it. Estonia sent troops to Afghanistan to help make conditions in that country even worse than they were under the Taliban who had stopped poppy cultivation..
All the Baltic States chose selfish independence from the Soviet Union. They were determined that the mistakes of Lenin and Trotsky should not be undone, and that Gorbachov's attempt to move from State Capitalism to Socialism should be prevented. They made no effort to free the people of the Siberian Nations from Russian domination. They supported the Thatcher-Yeltsin arrangements that ousted Gprbachov and enabled thieves to loot the assets accumulated by the Soviet people.
Most visibly those assets bought Chelsea Football Club. Behind the scenes the loot was used to prop up Capitalism which was at that time itself as close to collapseas was the State Capitalism in the Soviet Union.
Ilyan
'selfish independence'
30.04.2007 09:43
e
fake news
30.04.2007 12:53
"Estonia became independent after 1990, and was a part of the former Sovjet Union. Estonia meantime is governed by a anti-russian far-right government that seems to regard the nazis as Estonias protecters and the sovjets, who fought them, as occupiers."
Estonian government isnt anti-russian! There are many old communists in the government and nobody is fighting against them.
"An angry protest against the destruction of the monument of the sovjet soldier turned into the heaviest riot Estonia has ever seen when police shot tear gas in the masses. Police was attacked with bottles and stones, the whole city cenre is devasted, shops are plundered, buildings in flames."
The monument wasnt destroyed! It's just an rumor. They wanted just to identify who was burried next to it and then after 9 May they wanted to move it solemnly to soldiers graveyard. But when russians started to riot they didnt had a chance and they had to take it away to the secret place. They are allready planning to put it up in day or two and they are making preparations.
And tear gas in the masses? No friggin way. I saw what happened there. They allmost didnt use the tear gas at all. They only used it on violent rioters!
But why did they need to steal things, broke windows etc when they only protested? You can protest very well without doing that stuff.
Bulidings in flames? Yeah right, only one little kiosk was burnt down and there was a camp fire in the road (by russians).
"Many people are severly hurt. At least one protester was seen being beaten to death by police."
Thats right, that some protesters are hurt but because they didnt listen to police. Police yelled "Get down!" Get down!" and when they didnt do it then they were forced to get down. Some were hurt because they started to hit police.
Beaten to death by police? He wasnt beaten to death at all. He was knifed by an another russian. Police wasnt in there at all.
"People begin to organize all over Estonia. The protests are expected to go on at least until may 9th a symbolic date in Estonian history."
Symbolic date for russians.
"Russian officials named Estonias government "rural country nazis". Russia freezed all its economic relations to Estonia. Even trains planes and ships are stopped."
They have to support their people you know.
First night:
riaak
Monument is back!
30.04.2007 13:46
riaak
Estonian Nazis
30.04.2007 15:19
Lennart Svensson
Good help you guys.
30.04.2007 21:35
Some of you are so blind.
Why do you guys think that Hitler was bad, and Stalin was the best?
Because world saw what hitler did, but world didnt see what stalin did behind the iron curtin.
Well WWII went bad for russia. Their plan was to divide world with Germany, but it didnt work. How sad is that. Well they went for blan b. They gathered as many little countrys as they could and started their little soviet union. First they gathered all the people that were "bad" for their "wellbeing country" and sent them to Siberia. They tuck them as they were a sleep, and those who werent OK with that were shot. (Hmm... im thinking about the mean estonian police, who sprayd pepper... Well soviet union were better, they sprayd bullets) And how to get over 40k estonian people to Siberia... Well lets put them on animal wagons with no windows and toilets etc.
And then there whey were great to estonians. They forced them to learn russian language, their culture and everything else. Estonian culture and language and everything existed hundreds or thousand+ years, and russia forced them to become russians. No racism about that.
And lets talk about estonian russians. Well i have meny meny good russian friends. My grandmom is from Ukrain (she was sent to siberia, and there he met my grandfather, and they had my aunt back there, and meanwhile those russian soldiers who saved us from hitler burnt down mu grandgranddad's farm) so her girlfriends were all russian, so i know their sons and grandsons. People (estonians and russian both) say that good old russian blood has extinct. And im proud to know some of them. They are way nicer people then any other. But they were crying home when this happend. They were insolted by their own. They sayd its sad to see these people out there, and they sayd that those are not russian people, those are animals.
Normal russian people live normally, but there are those animals. Junkies, alcoholics and etc.
Most of estonian narcs are russian. And thats a fact. Most of crime is done by russian to. Most of names you hear in crime news from TV are russian. ETC.
Well few years ago it wasnt possible to walk alone at streets past midnight, because russians came to you and asked you: who are you russian or estoniant, and if you werent fluent on russian you got beaten up. Well that went away. Untill now. Last night we were tryng to buy a burger, and two wery drunk russians were buying something in little baggies from another russian guy 10m away from us. Taxi was waiting them, but guy decided that he must pick a fight with us.. He came and asked us: what are you doing here. I answered in russian: we are buying burger. Well he was a bit surprised, but he still thought that he must push my friend and scream over the town: Russia.
Well im trying to say that these times are back. You cant go out peacefully, because you get beaten up by russian gangs.
And estonians are racists? Big fcuking HA.
Almost 1/4 of people of attendants(like shop clearks) are russians who dont speak estonian or english. So you MUST speak russian to be able to survive in estonia.
How racist is that?
Estonian
e-mail:
mankilaver@gmail.com
Stalin? Curtain? Iron? and? THE?
30.04.2007 22:33
I think that in the end of the day people in power will always try to present historical (and present) events the way they want to. The Estonian Government is right wing and allows SS marches while systematically tearing down any memorial which commemorates those who fought the NAZIs.
Countries like Polanf Latvia Lithuania and Estonia are starting to criminalise the idea of communism and are showing their true Nazi colours. The brilliant tool of freedom and democracy that is the EU has encouraged this and has accepted these countries into the family of freedom loving countries.
...
Class War ?
30.04.2007 22:37
thanks for the Ho Ho Ho! award. I had two very good History teachers at school, it turns out that one was a Catholic, and the other an Anarchist. Both were very good. But earlier, I had a better History teacher in Neath who was a plain, though travelled, workingman. He used the Neath Valley as a classroom and a blackboard. He also gave a first class course in Ecology and by 1943 had forecast to me the mass extinction problems we now face.
e -
The Baltics deserted the field of battle and did nothing to ensure fair play for the other Nations they left under Russian domination. They jumped out of the Central Committee of the Communist Party's frying pan into the Capitalist fire, and are being well ripped off as a result, just as the assets saved and slaved for by Soviet citizens are ripped off by Thatcherite thieves in Russia.
Estonia eagerly joined NATO and sent troops to Afghanistan to impose a Quisling Government - selected by as fraudulent an election process as imposed Bush over the Americans. The ousted Taliban had stopped Poppy production. NATO has restored it - are they paid by the US Mafia?. .You can take that with a big Ho Ho Ho too - Or is the reason NATO is in Afghanistan to get bases convenient to attack China. I think that an even bigger Ho Ho Ho! - with a sneaky thought that BushBlair are stupid enough.
There was a comment by John Doe that has disappeared, it was a bit daft claiming a religious riot between Christians instigated by Zionists - It had some merit because it brought to mind that It isn't a Religious or National conflict. Once looting starts it is Class War. The Have nots against the Haves.
Ilyan
about tearing down
30.04.2007 23:50
well you are the right guy to say, that we systematically tear down memorials.
where do your fact come from?
like wtf?
estonian government did not "tear" the Bronze Soldier down because they wanter. they MOVED it, becouse skinheads (idiots in any country) went poking war vets. Problem started there.
And the statue belongs to Soldiers Graveyard. Why should stand Soviet Unions statue at Estonias capitol's midtown? And why is that so big problem, that estonians did move it to Soldiers Graveyard?
btw, soviet union smashed and burned down old estonian soldiers graveyards, and now its a big problem that estonians want to identify the unknown soldiers grave, and rebury them.
By the fcuking way, Russians move their statues all the time. That was sayd by russian parliament headspeaker.
estonian
e-mail:
mankilaver@gmail.com
Denial
01.05.2007 09:55
Tel aviv University study
...
@ESTONIAN: Stop using nazi language here and stop spreading your racist thoughts
01.05.2007 10:50
"They sayd its sad to see these people out there, and they sayd that those are not russian people, those are animals.
Normal russian people live normally, but there are those animals. Junkies, alcoholics and etc. "
This is the language of Hitler who also named russians "Untermenschen" and "Tiere" (animals). Stop spreading your fascist views here, please.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You also wrote:
"People (estonians and russian both) say that good old russian blood has extinct."
I say you: we don´t want that kind of racist "theories" here on indymedia.
You are a nazi and you even don´t know it.
communist
cattle cars, cyber-attacks and looters with cognac
01.05.2007 22:04
john kelly
e-mail:
goodnewsabc&hotmail.com
Who are real nazis in modern Estonia?
02.05.2007 01:04
Here is a good story from Estonian weekly newspaper Eesti Ekspress about two so called defender of bronz-solder: (article in estonian only)
[URL=
Story is about members of organisation named [I]Notšnoi dozor[/I], witch called people to unrest and riots in Estonia. First persons name is [B]Igor Grabovski [/B]. He continuosly offers to sell all sorts of signs, medals, rings and other stuff dedicated to nazism. He sells this stuff in Estonia and in Latvia. And it gets better - all these nazi items are freshly made, so he can not be called "collector", but only "nazi agitator". And it gets even better - all these nazi items are made in Russia, St.Petersburg, where´s a special factory for making cheap copys of historic SS stuff.
Second persons name is [B]Viktor Jevstahevitš[/B], also "defender of bronz-solder". He offers to sell authentic SS and Nazi stuff - photos and portsigars and so we [B]can[/B] call him "collector".
But still, how can they be antinazis@night while being nazis@day-time?
So, is this "Notšnoi dozor" or "natsnoi pozor"?
Ingemar
Freed Tallinn
02.05.2007 05:41
1944, when German troops recided, Estonian people regenerated Estonian government. A week later came the Russian troops and aircraft and flatted whole Estonian capital. They killed only civilians and later they started to call this day of freeing Estonia from German Nazis. Almost like saying the US and UK liberates Iraq by dropping bombs on civilians and torturing with electrodes on testicles.
TorqueFeesh
@ingemar: russians sellt that stuff, estonians buy it.
02.05.2007 06:50
estonian anti-fascist girl
Estonia does not need to be reminded of Soviet occupation
02.05.2007 15:28
Georg
e-mail:
ggrant2004@yahoo.com
@georg
02.05.2007 18:25
For sure not before at least installing an Estonian fascist regime...
communist
Con Trick
02.05.2007 23:09
They were all too damn greedy to be Socialists. It is now a Capitalist world, hurtling to destruction, the agents of Satan are everywhere, and are rushing to their final triumph, Priests, Politicians, Scientists and Financiers all ensure the Satanic road is followed to Mass Extermination. God is getting a real good kicking. - by people who go to worship on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. And those who never worship pitch in to help the kicking too. God help God, People will not. they choose destruction.
Ilyan
on estonian riots: UK Indymedia = Newspeak?
10.05.2007 23:21
Jason Potter
its just so funny and SO sad to read these old comments here...:D
08.08.2008 00:19
well i just happen to come here and re-read these comments... are these funny or are these just sad - its hard to say. Its seems that most pro stalin comments are written by smal group of same people - from Nazi Putin youth group. No idea if they really belived that they can - by publiching crap like that make normal people also belive these lies.
Fact is that stalin have killed ower 50 million people , only Mao can beat that, hitler is far far behind... can get up to 10 million. Estonia lost up to 23-27% of hes people on between worldwars - and not just random people - all educators, culture people and politicians was getting killed first.
i just cant understand how people can clorify murderes like stalin, just sad (well, this does not make hitler "good" ofcourse).
to bad that real history is banned... and russia will NEWER open hes arhives, bcouse then we would be able to see one of the world greades massmurder jobs..
most people will newer ask - why russia tell everyone to fkOff if they ask to examine the arhives same way as they do it in other countryes..
Waffa
e-mail:
waffadrunker@gmail.com
Homepage:
http://www-estonia-russia.tk