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America's "Long War": The Legacy of the Iraq-Iran and Soviet-Afghan Wars

Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya | 21.09.2007 20:58 | Anti-militarism | History | Terror War | World

On close inspection, a series of unfolding international events have been anticipated and systematically engineered since the end of the Cold War. The "long war" that is absorbing the globe did not start in 2001, but at the end of the Cold War through a continuum of wars and international events. A global war may have been initiated years before the declaration of the "Global War on Terror" and much of the globe may not have been aware of it.

Future historians may end up categorizing several wars going back to the Kosovo War of 1999 as different stages in one singular and "long war." Several fixtures of geo-strategic chess have been unfolding globally, in which the Middle East is one of the most important stages. As simple as it may sound, the endgame of this match of deadly chess is economic control and supremacy

Yesterday’s events influence the direction of tomorrow. The question is: are future developments, as a result of past events, foreseen or unforeseen?

Are the results of past events mostly unintended consequences or serendipity?

This is an age old subject that has been pondered on by logicians, mathematicians, philosophers, social scientists, and historians. In the case of geo-politics and geo-strategy it may be argued that yes there has been a series of calculated steps taken to establish intended developments. Given this case, how far does this drive to achieve expected outcomes go back? It can be argued that, since the dawn of civilization, humanity has always strived to control its prospects.


Return to the Cold War?

On the eve of the 2007 anniversary of the defeat of Germany in the Second World War, President Vladimir Putin stated that the foreign policy of the U.S. government resembled that of the war march of the German Third Reich that sparked the Second World War. The Russian President warned Russians that the threat of another global war was very much alive in reference to increasing U.S. antagonism across the globe. [1] Just months before, in February of 2007, the Russian President told a gathering of international leaders in Bavaria that the U.S. was dangerously trying to impose itself as the centre of global power and decision making. [2] He bluntly said that Russia was determined to stay an independent nation and when answering a question he confidentially said that he was certain “the historians of the future will not describe our conference [at Munich] as one in which the Second Cold War was declared.” [3]

In 1998, Hubert Védrine, a former French foreign minister, started describing America as a “hyperpower.” This was a reference to the increasingly aggressive conduct of the U.S. government in global affairs.

The statements of Russia, China, and various other nation-states are an alarming indicator of the deteriorating situation in international relations, but this is a direction that American policy makers have been directing the United States towards for decades. Vladimir Putin is correct in the sense that the “Second Cold War” did not begin in 2007; it started years earlier, at the end of the first Cold War, during the decline of the Soviet Union. Or at least the preparations for it were being made during the decline of the Soviet Union.

On close inspection, a series of unfolding international events have been anticipated and systematically engineered since the end of the Cold War. The “long war” that is absorbing the globe did not start in 2001, but at the end of the Cold War through a continuum of wars and international events. A global war may have been initiated years before the declaration of the “Global War on Terror” and much of the globe may not have been aware of it.

Future historians may end up categorizing several wars going back to the Kosovo War of 1999 as different stages in one singular and “long war.” Several fixtures of geo-strategic chess have been unfolding globally, in which the Middle East is one of the most important stages. As simple as it may sound, the endgame of this match of deadly chess is economic control and supremacy.


Continuous Reagan-Bush Sr.-Clinton-Bush Jr. War Strategy: Laying the Groundwork for the “Long War”

“As in chess, American global planners must think several moves ahead, anticipating possible countermoves. A sustainable geostrategy must therefore distinguish between the short-run perspective (the next five years), the middle term (up to twenty or so years), and the long run (beyond twenty years). Moreover these phases must be viewed not as watertight compartments but as part of a continuum. The first phase must gradually and consistently lead into the second — indeed, be deliberately pointed toward it — and the second must then lead subsequently into the third.” -Zbigniew Brzezinski (The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives, 1997)

U.S. foreign policy and the wars in the Middle East cut across U.S. political party lines and presidential administrations. The pinnacles of the Democratic Party and the Republican Party have historically worked hand-in-hand in regards to U.S. foreign policy objectives.

The White House and the Pentagon were basically given a carte blanche to execute longstanding war plans made under previous presidential administrations after the dire events of September 11, 2001. The war march has been part of a continuum and, in a historical perspective, almost a seamless process. Upon careful examination, it is apparent one presidential administration after another has laid the foundations for the foreign wars of their beneficiaries in the White House.

George H. Bush Sr. went to war with Baghdad, arranged the groundwork to dismantle Yugoslavia, and produced the economic sanctions regime that weakened Iraq. William (Bill) J. Clinton weakened Iraq further through a bombing regime, expanded NATO, pressed U.S. bases eastward, helped dismantle Yugoslavia, and laid the footing for invading Afghanistan and lunching the “Global War on Terror.” Finally George W. Bush Jr. invaded Iraq and publicly resurrected the Cold War projects of America. Under the Bush Jr. Administration a vital NATO military presence was also established in Afghanistan. Afghanistan can serve as a bridgehead in the Eurasian landmass and is amidst the borders of China, Iran, the former Soviet Union, and the Indian sub-continent.


The Carter Doctrine: The Link between the Soviet-Afghan and Iraq-Iran Wars

Looking back, in retrospect the grounds for weakening Iraq and Iran simultaneously were established under both the presidential administrations of James (Jimmy) E. Carter, and Ronald W. Reagan. United States Central Command (CENTCOM) was also established in 1983, during the Iraq-Iran War. The establishment of CENTCOM is an important step in the continuous projection of American power into the Middle East and Eurasia.

The U.S. Rapid Deployment Force was the antecedent of CENTCOM, which was designed to challenge Soviet intervention in Iraq, Iran, and the Persian Gulf. U.S. Rapid Deployment Force was a large-scale contingent of the U.S. military that was constantly on standby for massive theatre-level war anywhere on the globe. The force also gave special priority to the Persian Gulf and Middle East. The force was essentially the largest standby military contingent of the U.S. and had a special mandate in regards to the geo-strategically important Persian Gulf, an energy breadbasket.

The Carter Doctrine was consequently declared after the U.S.S.R. intervened militarily in Afghanistan. On January 23, 1980, Jimmy Carter stated that the U.S. government would use military force within the Persian Gulf region to defend U.S. economic interests. [4] The doctrine was deliberately portrayed as a response to Soviet actions, but nothing could be further from the truth. Eight months later, in September of 1980, the Iraq-Iran War broke out. The Carter Doctrine was a clear message that the Soviet Union should not get involved in the Iraq-Iran War. Afghanistan was also conveniently keeping the Soviets busy while America had an open hand in the Persian Gulf. This was deliberately arranged as part of a cunning American project.

According to Zbigniew Brzezinski in a 1998 interview with Le Nouvel Observateur, the Soviet Union was baited into invading Afghanistan in 1979 by the Carter Administration and the CIA. [5] High ranking officials within the Carter Administration also contributed to triggering the Iraq-Iran War, after failing to manipulate the Iranian Revolution in 1979. The involvement of the Soviets in Afghanistan prevented them from intervening in a significant way in Iran. With the Soviets busy in Afghanistan, the Reagan Administration was free to fully push Iraq and Iran, the major military powers of the Middle East, against one another.


Machiavellian Geo-Strategy: Playing Iraq against Iran in the “Northern Tier”

Turkey, Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan were in an area called the “Northern Tier” by American strategists. This area was believed to be the region from which the Soviet Union could breakout of Eurasia by reaching the Persian Gulf. It was also considered to be the area bordering the Soviet Union’s most sensitive area. It was from here that a game of expansion, containment, and penetration was being carried out. A balance of power was very important in this regard.

One country above all others was vital for the balance of power and that was Iran. If the Soviets overran Iran, they would have direct access to the Persian Gulf and if American or British troops were in Iran they would be directly on the southern and sensitive borders of the Soviet Union. The status quo had been, since the time of the so-called “Great Game” between Britain and Czarist Russia, that Iran would be a military buffer zone. While Iran was an ally of the U.S. and NATO before 1979, there were also restrictions on it in the context of a longstanding bilateral relationship with the Soviet Union.

Iran severed its military alliance with the United States after the 1979 Iranian Revolution. This was seen as a geo-strategic victory by the Soviet Union. Although the Soviets were concerned about the ideology of the new government in Iran, they were relieved that Iran was no longer colluding with the U.S. and its partners. Nonetheless, there was still a state of mistrust between Moscow and Tehran. The Americans could not intervene militarily in Iran with a view to gaining control over Iran’s oil fields. A bilateral treaty between Iran and the Soviets had allowed the Soviet Union to intervene in Iran if forces of a third party operating within Iran were perceived as a menace to Soviet security. Naturally, Moscow would perceive any American invasion of Iran, on the direct borders of the U.S.S.R., as a threat and invoke the bilateral treaty.

This is where Iraq, a Soviet ally, became useful against Iran. Before the Iraq-Iran War there existed no diplomatic relations between the Iraqi and U.S. governments. Iraq had gravitated outside of the Anglo-American orbit in 1958, after a revolution ousted the Iraqi branch of the Hashemite Dynasty and in 1967 Baghdad cut its ties with America. In 1972 the Soviets and Iraqis had also signed a Friendship Treaty that resulted in large Soviet weapon deliveries to the most independent-minded Arab country in the Arab World, which became a real threat to U.S. and Israeli interests. [6]

A real match of geo-strategic chess was being played. According to Henry Kissinger, Iraq was the single most radical Arab country that posed the greatest danger to U.S. interests during the Nixon era. Furthermore, the U.S. was afraid that if Iraq was not neutralized that the Soviets would take the geo-strategic initiative of penetrating into the Middle East and overwhelming Iran. If one remembers Afghanistan also had a pro-Soviet government too. In Henry Kissinger’s words, “The Soviet Union would try to squeeze Iran between [a pro-Soviet] Afghanistan and its Iraqi client.” [7]

Under these circumstances, it was to keep their socialist allies in power in Kabul and to prevent the destabilization of Soviet Central Asia via Afghanistan that Soviet troops entered Afghanistan, in context with the 1978 Soviet-Afghan Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation, and Good Neighbourliness.

Henry Kissinger has written in regards to the danger from Iraq, “Though not strictly speaking a Soviet satellite, once fully armed with Soviet weapons Iraq would serve Soviet purposes by intimating pro-Western government, such as Saudi Arabia; simultaneously, it would exert pressure on Jordon and even Syria, which while leaning to the radical side was far from being a Soviet puppet.” [8] The Americans and their British allies were intent on neutralizing an independent Iraq and an Iran steaming with revolutionary fervor. Also, the other goal of the U.S. and Britain was to regain the lost oil fields of both Middle Eastern countries. The Iraq-Iran War was America’s chance to recover the lost oil fields of Iraq and Iran.


The Red Factor in Iran: The Soviet Union’s Treaty Right to Intervene

Close to the start of the Iraq-Iran War, the Soviet government, after talks with the revolutionary government in Tehran, was notified that Iran was terminating Moscow’s right to militarily intervene in Iran, and by extension in the Persian Gulf, under the 1921 Treaty of Friendship signed between the Russian Socialist Federal Soviet Republic (S.F.S.R.) and Iran. [9] The reason the agreement was made between the Russian S.F.S.R., instead of the U.S.S.R., and Iran was because the U.S.S.R. was in the process of forming and all its constituent republics had not integrated at the time, in 1921.

It was the Treaty of Friendship that was invoked during the Second World War by the Soviets in an attempt to legitimize the Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran. Under Article 5 and Article 6 of the 1921 Treaty of Friendship, the Soviet military was legally permitted to intervene in Iran if preparations were being made for an armed attack on the U.S.S.R. by a foreign power (e.g., the U.S.). [10] The Soviets objected to Tehran’s decision, but were reluctant and bogged down in Afghanistan. Eventually and with time they tacitly accepted the Iranian decision.

It was this agreement between the Soviets that kept the U.S. from invading Iran. It is also because of this agreement that the British did not try to invade Iran, but created an internationally illegal military blockade that prevented Iranian trade and the export of oil when the government of Dr. Mossadegh, the prime minister of Iran, nationalized Iranian oil in 1951. It is obvious that international laws are only useful to the leaders of America and Britain, who misuse their nation’s foreign policies, only when it benefits them. [11]

This Soviet treaty right was also one of the rationales for the existence of U.S. Rapid Deployment Force and its special mandate for the Persian Gulf. The U.S. feared that the Soviets could use Iran’s military ties to the U.S. as a pretext into invading Iran and establishing control over the Persian Gulf. The Soviets eventually and essentially relinquished this treaty right after the 1979 Iranian Revolution and the unilateral annulment by Tehran. This was only because Iran was no longer an American ally.

By instigating war between Iraq, a Soviet ally, and Iran the U.S. also effectively obstructed any warming of Soviet-Iranian relations that would have greatly endangered Anglo-American interests in the Middle East and caused a geo-strategic nightmare for the White House. They also neutralized the Soviet’s Iraqi allies. When Iranian communist leaders were arrested the official newspaper of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, Pravda, declared that the U.S. had instigated the situation to create animosity between Moscow and Tehran. This was in light of the fact that Iranian communists had helped oust Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, Iran’s last shah or king.


Geo-Strategic Chess: Destabilizing Areas of Concern for Future Operations

“The southern rim of Asia — Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan — is a region of the world that may seem remote and strange to Americans, and yet it is a pivot of the world’s security. Within a few years of my 1973 journey, it became an area of upheaval. From the Iranian revolution to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan to the Iran-Iraq war, events dramatized the vulnerability of the Persian Gulf — the lifeline of the West’s oil supply. The vital importance of that region had been one of the themes of the shrewd strategic analysts I was to visit next: Mao Zedong and Zhou Enlai.” -Henry Kissinger (Years of Upheaval, 1982)

The Soviet Union, Iraq, Afghanistan, and, lastly in 1979, Iran were independent-minded states in regards to America. By 1980 America had systematically created an arc of volatility and instability from the borders of Soviet Central Asia and Afghanistan running through Iran and Iraq to the Persian Gulf; in the process four nations (the Soviet Union, Afghanistan, Iran, and Iraq) on the doorstep or gateway into the core of Eurasia were weakened. America was also using all four nations to destabilize one another. In retrospect it can be argued that the ground was being prepared for future operations in these areas.

During the bloody Iraq-Iran War, both sides were used to weaken one another. The intention was, quoting Henry Kissinger, to “let them [meaning Iraq and Iran] kill each other.” Thus, the U.S. tried to keep either side from winning and always in a military deadlock. According to a May 20, 1984 issue of Newsday, an American newspaper, the U.S. feared an Iranian victory and developed a contingency plan to militarily intervene on the side of Iraq by using the U.S. Air Force against Iran in a bombing campaign if the Iranians should advance towards Baghdad. [12]


The Iraq-Iran War and Market Manipulation: Destabilizing Eurasian Economies

The U.S. had realized from the time of the 1968 Arab Oil Embargo that it had a powerful economic weapon on its hands. Even during the 1968 Arab Oil Embargo the Saudi government was sustaining the U.S. by reinvesting large amounts of capital into the American economy. Henry Kissinger confirmed in his 1982 memoirs that the U.S. was able to strengthen its economic influence over the European and Japanese economies because of the price increase in the oil market, which was linked to the U.S. dollar. [13] The rise in petroleum prices was also used to weaken (or more properly to globally integrate) the economies of the Eastern Bloc and the Communist World. The Iraq-Iran War further tightened the American grip on the global economy.

The work of the American sociologist Immanuel Wallerstein puts forward the notion that there is essentially only a singular, but fragmented, “world-system” that is connected and interrelated through a network of economic relationships. This thesis is useful in part for explaining the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc.

One could argue that the Iraq-Iran War was a key aspect in the collapse of the Soviet Union, because of the position of the U.S.S.R. within the singularity of the “world-system.” The Soviet Union was a true “energy superpower” in all aspects of the term. It should be noted that Soviet hydrocarbon resources were the sum of all the energy resources of Russia, Central Asia, and the Republic of Azerbaijan. So why didn’t the Soviet Union with the combined energy resources of Russia, Central Asia, and the Caucasus profit from the Iraq-Iran War?

The price of Soviet petroleum also increased because of the Iraq-Iran War, but to no real benefit to the Soviets. The Soviet economy was affected largely because of the war in Afghanistan, a U.S. snare that ensured that the Soviet economy would not benefit from the rise in petroleum prices. The rise in petroleum prices during the Iraq-Iran War also created a state of economic shock in Eastern Europe. The economic disturbances in Eastern Europe also had a negative toll on the Soviet economy. The Eastern Bloc also opened the door to Western Banks for financial aid to cope with the economic shock that was created by the rise in petroleum prices. This would be a lethal mistake. Moreover, while the manipulation of oil prices benefited France and West Germany to some extent; it also benefited the Anglo-American alliance by spoiling any economic rapprochement between Paris, Bonn, and Moscow.

It should be noted that the Soviet Union disengaged itself from Afghanistan in 1988, the same year that the Iraq-Iran War ended. In 1988, the Soviet effort to stabilize the Soviet economy was also underway. After the Iraq-Iran War ended in 1988, the U.S. tried to sabotage and to further destroy the devastated economies of Iraq, Iran, and the Soviet Union by deliberately getting Saudi Arabia and the Arab Sheikhdoms of the Persian Gulf to lower the price of oil. The Soviets, the Iraqis, and the Iranians were planning on making the most of their vast energy resources, but their programs were stopped or obstructed in their tracks by the deliberate manipulation of petroleum markets. Washington D.C. was cleverly “killing several birds with one stone,” so to speak.


Military Upsurge in the Persian Gulf and the Wars against Iraq

“…America possesses not only overwhelming strategic power— constantly enhanced by technological innovation— but also an unmatched capability to project its conventional forces to distant areas.” -Zbigniew Brzezenski (Out of Control: Global Turmoil on the Eve of the 21st Century, 1993)

In one of his books, Out of Control: Global Turmoil on the Eve of the 21st Century, Zbigniew Brzezenski writes, “For the world at large, one of the most impressive aspects of the U.S. military performance in the Gulf War of 1991 was the manner in which the United States was able to deploy, and logistically sustain, a force of several hundred thousand men in the distant Arabian peninsula [sic].” [14] The truth is that President George H. Bush Sr. would never have been able to deploy forces to the Middle East with such ease without the work of his presidential predecessors. The groundwork was prepared for him by the Reagan, the Carter, and the Ford Administrations.

The existence of the U.S. Rapid Deployment Force, which later became CENTCOM, was an extremely important step for U.S. operations in the Middle East. The deployment of U.S. troops to Saudi Arabia in 1991 was part of an operational continuum. It should be noted that U.S. Rapid Deployment Force was created by the Carter Administration on August 24, 1977 through a presidential directive based on the work of President Gerald Ford and Vice-President Nelson Rockefeller. With the collapse of the Soviet Union the U.S. was able to bolster its plans to dominate the Persian Gulf.

The Persian Gulf was militarized over a long period of time through three successive wars: the Iraq-Iran War (1980-1988), the Persian Gulf War (1991), and the Anglo-American invasion of Iraq (2003). After the British left the Persian Gulf, the area was militarized by the U.S. through the arguable necessitation of foreign ships being present to protect oil shipments and maritime traffic. This position was further endorsed during the Iraq-Iran War when the U.S. Navy flagged Kuwait oil tankers and fought against the Iranian Navy.

The invasion of Kuwait and the subsequent American-led war with Iraq allowed the U.S. to establish bases in Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf in a second phase of militarization. A third phase of militarization started in 2003. This third phase involved the transfer of American and British assets into Iraq and the establishment of permanent super-bases starting in 2003/2004. NATO has also signed agreements with Arab states in the Persian Gulf littoral as the Franco-German entente becomes more involved in the management of the Middle East.


The U.S. Wants to Stay “Permanently” in the Persian Gulf: Baghdad’s 1990 Warnings

“The country that exerts the greatest amount of influence on the region, on the [Persian] Gulf and its oil, will consolidate its superiority as an unrivaled superpower. This proves that if the population of the [Persian] Gulf — and of the entire Arab World — is not vigilant, this area will be ruled according to the wishes of the United States.” -Saddam Hussein, 5th President of Iraq: Speech to the Arab Cooperation Council in Amman (February 24, 1990)

The British attempted to control the Persian Gulf in the past and the U.S. government has inherited this task. The interests of the same Anglo-American elites are still at play, but America is the new vessel or agent of execution. American foreign policy in the Middle East is a continuation of British foreign policy in the area.

After the Iraq-Iran War the understanding between Iraq and Washington D.C. faded. Iraq was no longer needed; Iraq had crippled its own economy in the process of confronting Iran militarily. In February 1990, Saddam Hussein warned the Arab World that the U.S. was seeking to establish itself permanently in the Middle East and to take control of the region and its resources. Little did Saddam Hussein know that he would be baited into a disastrous war about a year later, a war which provided the U.S. with the pretext for the permanent U.S. deployment in the Middle East that he forewarned against. Iraq would become a victim of the Carter Doctrine.

In 2007, the White House and the Pentagon clarified that U.S. troops would be deployed in permanent bases in Iraq, described as the “post-occupation” phase of the U.S. deployment in Iraq. [15] The American presence in Iraq was contrasted with that of the American presence in the Korean Peninsula since the end of the bloody Korean War. U.S. officials, including Vice-President Cheney, have also threatened both allies and foes alike; cautioning that the U.S. does not intend on leaving the Persian Gulf. [16]

In the later half of the 1990s, Iraq, which needed heavy financial help to fight Iran, was headed towards even greater levels of external debt because of the deliberate economic manipulation of oil prices. Oil prices were pushed downwards through excess production. At the time, Iraqi debts to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait were in the tens of billions of dollars. The late Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi government were angry and at odds with the rulers of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the U.A.E., Bahrain, and Qatar for what they saw as a betrayal. Iraq accused their governments, especially Kuwait, the U.A.E., and Saudi Arabia, of conspiring to destabilize the Iraqi economy and impoverishing its people. The manipulation of oil prices by the U.S. and the Arab Sheikdoms was seen by Baghdad as economic warfare. This was all after Iraq, once liberally termed “the superpower of the Arab World,” had shattered its economy, military strength, and resources fighting Iran and all for naught.


The Arab Conspiracy against Iraq

“The year 1991 saw the definitive end of the Cold War and the bipolar era.” -U.N. Secretary General Boutros Boutros-Ghali, (Forward of the 1991 Yearbook of the United Nations)

When Lebanon was attacked by Israel in July of 2006 the Lebanese stated that there was an “Arab conspiracy” against Lebanon. The Arab dictators and regimes had been co-opted to support Israel against them they said, but before there was an Arab conspiracy against Lebanon in 2006 there was one against the Iraqi people dating back to the end of the Iraq-Iran War. Although it should be noted that Palestine suffered betrayal from Arab leaders before both Lebanon and Iraq.

Tariq Aziz is quoted as saying during an Arab summit, in Tunisia in 1990, “We [meaning Iraq] are sure some Arab states are involved in a conspiracy against us. We want you to know that our country [Iraq] will not kneel, our women will not become prostitutes, our children will not be deprived of food.” [17] A conspiracy against Iraq by fellow Arab governments was economical and Iraq had caught on. Baghdad perceived the U.S. to be the main architect of the scheme. In fact Iraq would also catch on and try to fight back economically, almost ten years later, by selling its oil in other foreign currencies besides the American dollar in November of 2000.

In February 1990, Saddam Hussein asked Saudi Arabia to honour the limits on oil production rates or quotas set by the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC). Arab countries like Kuwait and the U.A.E. were deliberately breaching the quotas set by OPEC in coordination with the White House. The Iranians also sided with Iraq and in addition blamed the Arab Sheikhdoms of the Persian Gulf of conspiring with the U.S. against Iran too. Oddly, the U.S.S.R. appears to have kept silent. In May of 1990, Saddam Hussein finally gave a summit of Arab leaders in Baghdad a warning that the continued violation of OPEC production rates by fellow Arab nations represented a de facto declaration of war against Iraq, but Kuwait and the U.A.E., encouraged by the U.S., continued to violate their OPEC quotas. [18]


Choreographing Iraq into invading Kuwait: Planting the Seeds of 2003

“[The Gulf War] is an historic moment. We have in this past year made great progress in ending the long era of conflict and cold war. We have before us the opportunity to forge for ourselves and for future generations a ‘New World Order’…”
-George H. Bush Sr., 41st President of the United States (January 16, 1991)

Finally Iraq was entrapped into invading Kuwait in August of 1990 with what Baghdad believed was an okay from President George H. Bush Sr. and the White House through April Glaspie, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq. [19] The transcripts of the discussion between Ambassador Glaspie and Saddam Hussein confirm that Iraq was ensnared by the Bush Sr. Administration. [20] U.S. officials in Washington D.C. also made it appear that the U.S. believed that the invasion of Kuwait was an “Arab-Arab issue.” The Iraqis also claimed that they invaded Kuwait to stop Kuwait from permanently damaging the Iraqi economy by flooding the global market with more oil.

John Kelly, The U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs, testified to the U.S. Congress that the “United States has no commitment to defend Kuwait and the U.S. has no intention of defending Kuwait if it is attacked by Iraq,” on July 31, 1990, two days before the Iraqi Army marched into Kuwait. [21] Margaret Tutweiler, the U.S. State Department spokeswoman, also told the international press on July 26, 1990 that the U.S. government had no objections or diplomatic message to Iraq about the mobilization of 30, 000 Iraqi troops that appeared to be planning an invasion of Kuwait. [22] The U.S. was aware that the Iraqis would be monitoring Washington D.C.’s responses to Iraqi mobilization and Baghdad’s plans to invade Kuwait. Iraq was clearly led on by the U.S. government.

Aside from Iraq’s global importance as an energy supplier, Iraq’s geographic location is also central to the whole Middle East. With a central footing in Iraq the U.S. could spread out or control the rest of the Middle East and the head of the Persian Gulf. The Middle East, in addition to the Indian sub-continent, is also sandwiched between America’s Eurasian bridgeheads, Europe, and the Far East. Additionally, Iraq serves as a gateway of entry into Iran and as a natural barrier between Iran and the rest of the Arab World and debatably even the Persian Gulf. On the other hand, Iran serves as a geographic gateway into the Caucasus, the Caspian Sea, and Central Asia. Establishing a footing in Iraq is a logical step in containing the spread of Iranian influence in the Arab World and pushing inwards into Central Asia. Therefore the invasion of Iraq would be vital in a drive towards Central Asia, through securing Iran, and ultimately encircling Russia and China.


1997-1999: The Preparation Years for the “Long War”

“Eurasia is the world’s axial supercontinent. A power that dominated Eurasia would exercise decisive influence over two of the world’s three most economically productive regions, Western Europe and East Asia. A glance at the map also suggests that a country dominant in Eurasia would almost automatically control the Middle East and Africa. With Eurasia now serving as the decisive geopolitical chessboard, it no longer suffices to fashion one policy for Europe and another for Asia. What happens with the distribution of power on the Eurasian landmass will be of decisive importance to America’s global primacy and historical legacy.”
-Zbigniew Brzezinski, (A Geostrategy for Eurasia, Foreign Affairs, September/October 1997)

A lot of work and planning goes into preparing military campaigns, especially ones of great magnitude such as the “Global War on Terror.” In 1997 the Clinton Administration began taking the necessary steps and planning for NATO expansion into Eastern Europe and the post-Soviet vacuum. This was not done under the Clinton Administration’s individual initiative, but as part of a long-term American agenda. By this time, the Soviet Union, the dinosaur of Eurasia, had finally collapsed. Containment had just redefined itself as penetration. On October 9, 1997 Zbigniew Brzezinski, one of America’s most prominent geo-strategists, told the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee that NATO’s enlargement was crucial to the future of the U.S. and American foreign objectives on a global scale.

The European Union, under France and Germany, and America were also portrayed as partners, working through NATO, in leading the global post-Cold World order. Brzezinski testified that NATO enlargement and expansion was “central to the step-by-step construction of a secure international system in which the Euro-Atlantic alliance [meaning NATO] plays the major role in ensuring that a peaceful and democratic Europe is America’s principle partner.” [23]

On October 10, 1997, one day after Zbigniew Brzezinski’s testimony, the U.S. helped create an alliance of ex-Soviet republics that were predisposed towards entering the orbit of NATO. The Organization for Democracy and Economic Development, better known as the GUAM Group was created as a political, economic and strategic alliance between Georgia, Ukraine, the Republic of Azerbaijan (Azarbaijan), and Moldavia. GUAM, the organization’s alternative name was an acronym for the names of these countries. The leaders of all four were vying for greater independence from the orbit of Moscow. NATO was critical for offering support to the four ex-Soviet republics. GUAM was designed to be NATO’s stepping stone into the former Soviet Union. All four nations were slatted by Washington D.C. and Brussels to ultimately join NATO.

Two years later, in 1999, NATO expanded into Eastern Europe and Uzbekistan left the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) to join the GUAM Group, which became renamed as the GUUAM Group. In 1998, NATO troops were already holding joint exercises in Uzbekistan with Uzbek troops and Uzbekistan was getting large amounts of aid from the U.S. and NATO. In the same year that Uzbekistan left CSTO and NATO expanded, 1999, the groundwork on establishing a joint missile shield with Japan also began in Asia. This was in line with Zbigniew Brzezinski’s demands that a single policy be developed for Europe and Asia.

America was starting to take a Eurasian approach to its policies in Europe and Asia. 1999 was also the year that NATO declared war on Yugoslavia under the ironic pretext of a “humanitarian mission” in Kosovo. NATO and U.S. bases were also pushed eastwards in Europe.

None of these events are coincidental; they are all carefully planned steps of a “military roadmap.” It was the subsequent bases that were established in the Balkans after the 1999 NATO war on Yugoslavia that allowed the logistical groundwork for an invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 and Iraq in 2003 to take place. These are different battles of the same war.

Additionally, a month before speaking to the U.S. Senate Foreign Affairs Committee on NATO expansion, in September of 1997, Brzezinski had also indicated to the Council on Foreign Relations that the U.S. must control Eurasia through a presentation on U.S. geo-strategy that appeared in Foreign Affairs, an influential international relations journal run by the Council on Foreign Relations. [24] The Council on Foreign Relations was also told that the U.S. must harmonize its European and Asian polices. This explains the push to drive Asia and Europe towards a single military alliance and the coordination between the missile shield projects in Asia and Europe. It is clear America had started the process of encircling Russia, China, and their allies. Zbigniew Brzezinski even put forward the scheme that Russia should be portioned into a loose confederation consisting of a “European Russia, a Siberian Republic, and a Far Eastern Republic.” [25]


Breaking Yugoslavia: Eastward Prerequisite for Targeting Russia and the Middle East?

“Yugoslavia, consisting of Serbia and Montenegro, fits into the geopolitical plans of the U.S., and to a lesser degree NATO countries, because it’s there, strategically located, and this has to be addressed.” -Ramsey Clark, 66th United States Attorney-General (October 6, 2000)

Bill Clinton said “If we’re going to have a strong economic relationship that includes our ability to sell around the world, Europe has got to be a key…That’s what this Kosovo thing [meaning the war with Yugoslavia] is all about,” during the NATO bombing campaign over Serbia and Montenegro. The wars in Yugoslavia were a case where the Franco-German entente, France and Germany, and the Anglo-American alliance, the U.S. and Britain, were working hand-in-hand to extend their spheres of influences. Future developments were being foreshadowed from the Franco-German and Anglo-American collusion.

In the wake of the Dayton agreement of 1995 and the NATO invasion of Kosovo in 1999, U.S. and NATO military bases, formally and informally, mushroomed in the Balkans with no treaty limitations. One of the largest U.S. military facilities in the Balkans is the Bondsteel military base. Bondsteel is situated in the Serbian province of Kosovo, inhabited predominately by ethnic Albanians. From Kosovo, the former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) was also destabilized and engaged into the orbit of NATO powers.

The 1991 Gulf War, the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan, and the 2003 invasion of Iraq are functionally related to the wars in the Balkans and the dismantling of Yugoslavia. These series of wars are part of a broader post-Cold War military roadmap in Eurasia. The destabilization and subsequent bombardment of Yugoslavia should be considered as a distinct stage in the “Eurasian roadmap,” which was beneficial to the establishment of U.S. bases and an extended U.S. sphere of military influence in Southeastern Europe. Britain, France, and Germany were America’s partners in this endeavour.

The stage was being set for the long march east towards the heart of Eurasia. These bases in the Balkans subsequently also had no limitations stipulated by international treaty with Russia and its allies on the number of forces the U.S. is allowed to post in Europe. The bases set up in the Balkans were also not under the scrutiny of the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe (CFE-1989) or the Adapted Conventional Armed Forces in Europe Treaty (CFE-1999).


Preparing for the “Long War:” Drafting the “Bush Doctrine” and the “Global War on Terror”

“The attitude of the American public toward the external projection of American power has been much more ambivalent. The public supported America’s engagement in World War II largely because of the shock effect of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.” -Zbigniew Brzezinski (The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives, 1997)

The Washington Post reported in 2002 that the Bush Jr. Administration inherited its counter-terrorism strategies used in the “Global War on Terror” from the Clinton Administration. [26] The fight against Al-Qaeda was not initiated by the Bush Jr. Administration, but was initiated and drafted by the Clinton Administration. It should also be noted that it is also under the term of the Clinton Administration that Al-Qaeda was revealed to be an American product being used in Bosnia-Herzegovina and the Balkans. This is an important fact to remember.

The Clinton Administration had also crafted the invasion plans for Iraq. In fact it was the economic sanctions and the Anglo-American bombing campaigns under the Clinton Administration that softened Iraq for a ground invasion under the Bush Jr. Administration. Iraqi air defences were also seriously eroded by the time Iraq was invaded in 2003. The no-fly zones over pre-2003 Iraq, that were declared by the U.S., British, and French governments were also not internationally recognized or de jure (legal).

The bombardment of Iraq and Iraqi defensive facilities was carried on for years under the Clinton Administration, but were acts that were hardly noticed by the North American and British press. Under the Clinton Administration a dual containment policy in regards to Iraq and Iran had also been drafted, or upgraded. This was in addition to an ambitious dual-phased invasion plan for conquering both Iraq and Iran. [27] In Afghanistan the U.S. and British governments sponsored radical elements of the Afghan Mujahedin and helped nurture what became the repressive Taliban via Pakistan and the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI).

The division of Iraq and the restructuring of the Middle East has become an Anglo-American and Israeli ground operation. The religious, sectarian, and ethnic tensions being fueled in Iraq, Turkey, the Persian Gulf, and Lebanon are a part of this process. In hindsight it is worth quoting a translation of the Yinon Plan drafted by Oded Yinon in 1982: “[Iraq’s] dissolution is even more important for [Israel] than that of Syria. Iraq is stronger than Syria. In the short run it is Iraqi power which constitutes the greatest threat to Israel. An Iraqi-Iranian war will tear Iraq apart and cause its downfall at home even before it is able to organize a struggle on a wide front against [Israel]. Every kind of inter-Arab confrontation will assist us in the short run and will shorten the way to the more important aim of breaking up Iraq into denominations as in Syria and in Lebanon. In Iraq, a division into provinces along ethnic/religious lines as in Syria during Ottoman times is possible. So, three (or more) states will exist around the three major cities: Basra, Baghdad and Mosul, and Shiite [Muslim Arab] areas in the south will separate from the Sunni [Muslim Arab] and Kurdish north. It is possible that the present Iranian-Iraqi confrontation will deepen this polarization.” [28]

These 1982 Israeli policy statements forecast the strangulation of the Iraqi nation through the geo-strategic manipulation of Iraq and Iran against one another. However, this was not an idiosyncratic Israeli strategy, but an element of a far broader joint Anglo-American and Israeli strategy in the Middle East and Eurasia. Many years have passed since the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the bloody Iraq-Iran War. Both wars were instigated by the White House and 10 Downing Street as part of a calculated and long-term global strategy. It is through these wars and both the 1991 Gulf War and 1999 Kosovo War that the seeds of the wars of the Twenty-First Century have been planted. Just as the First World War led to the Second World War, these wars have led to further conflicts and wars. There is no doubt, these wars are elements of a “long war” that is part of the effort to establish what Professor Yoshihiro Francis Fukuyama calls an “end to history” through a singular global polity or what George H. Bush Sr. called a “New World Order” during the period of the Gulf War. This is the history and the ultimate objective of the bloody march to war.



NOTES

[1] Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, Speech at the Military Parade Celebrating the 62nd Anniversary of Victory in the Great Patriotic War, (Commemoration Speech, Red Square, Moscow, Russia, May 9, 2007).

 http://www.kremlin.ru/eng/text/speeches/2007/05/09/1432_type82912type127286_127675.shtml



Note: The Great Patriotic War is the name used in Russia and the former U.S.S.R. to designate the Second World War.



[2] Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, Speech and the Following Discussion at the Munich Conference on Security Policy (Address, Munich Conference on Security Policy, Munich, Bavaria, February 10, 2007).

 http://www.kremlin.ru/eng/speeches/2007/02/10/0138_type82912type82914type82917type84779_118123.shtml


[3] Ibid.



[4] James Earl Carter, Third State of the Union Address, (State of the Union Address, Capitol Hill, Washington, District of Columbia, January 23, 1980).



[5] Zbigniew Brezinski, “Oui, la CIA est entrée en Afghanistan avant les Russes...,” Le Nouvel Observateur, January 15-21 Issue, 1998, p.76.



Note: The term Russians (“Russes” in French) is improperly used instead of Soviets, the proper national label.



[6] Henry Kissinger, Years of Upheaval (Boston, Massachusetts: Little, Brown and Company, 1982), p.669.



[7] Ibid., p.675.



[8] Ibid.



[9] William M. Reisman, Termination of the U.S.S.R.’s Treaty of Right of Intervention in Iran, American Journal of International Law, vol. 74, no. 1 (January 1980): p.144-154.



[10] Treaty of Friendship between Iran and the Russian Socialist Federal Soviet Republic, signed and entered into force February 26, 1921, Russian S.F.S.R.-Kingdom of Iran, articles 5-6, League of Nations Treaty Series (L.N.T.S.) 9:403



Note: Outside of Iran the treaty title used the name “Persia,” the title used in reference to Iran outside of the Middle East until 1935, to refer to Iran. It was in 1935 that the government of Reza Pahlavi asked those nations referring to Iran as Persia to use the proper title (Iran), which was used by Iranians themselves to refer to their country. Reza Pahlavi also did this as a result of British attempts to divide Iran, like the Ottoman Empire, during the First World War. A comparison to this would be if Greece requests the international community use the name Hellas instead of Greece or if Finland asked the international community to refer to it by the name Suomi instead of Finland or if Germany asked to be called Deutschland.

The subject is also compounded by the fact that labeling Iranians as Persians and Iran as Persia is incorrect and is similar to labeling all Britons as Englishmen and Britain as England. Englishmen, Scots, and Welshmen are all Britons or British. England is only just one of the component countries of Britain or formally the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. In similarity Persians, like Kurds, are just one Iranian sub-group and Persia or Pars/Fars is historically a province within Iran. The ancient Achaemenids, such as Cyrus II and Xerxes I, the Arsacids, such as Mithridates I, and Sassanids all referred to their empires as Iran or different variances of Iran.



The following are important extracts from the Treaty of Friendship between Iran and the Russian Socialist Federal Soviet Republic; it should also be noted that the “Allies of Russia” are the other constituent Soviet Socialist Republics of the U.S.S.R., which essentially means the rest of the Soviet Union;



ARTICLE 5



The two High Contracting Parties undertake:



(1) To prohibit the formation or presence within their respective territories, of any organization or groups of persons, irrespective of the name by which they are known, whose object is to engage in acts of hostility against Persia or Russia, or against the Allies of Russia. They will likewise prohibit the formation of troops or armies within their respective territories with the aforementioned object.



(2) Not to allow a third party or organization, whatever it be called, which is hostile to the other Contracting Party, to import or to convey in transit across their countries material which can be used against the other party.



(3) To prevent by all means in their power the presence within their territories or within the territories of their Allies of all armies or forces of a third party in cases in which the presence of such forces would be regarded as a menace to the frontiers, interests or safety of the other Contracting Party.



ARTICLE 6



If a third party should attempt to carry out a policy of usurpation by means of armed intervention in Persia, or if such Power should desire to use Persian territory as a base of operations against Russia, or if a Foreign Power should threaten the frontiers of Federal Russia or those of its Allies, and if the Persian Government should not be able to put a stop to such menace after having been once called upon to do so by Russia, Russia shall have the right to advance her troops into the Persian interior for the purpose of carrying out the military operations necessary for its defence. Russia undertakes, however, to withdraw her troops from Persian territory as soon as the danger has been removed.



[11] Those who sit in the halls of power have an intimate link to private enterprise or large corporations. They use their nations’ foreign policies and state revenues to advance the needs of these enterprises. For example, most directors of the CIA come from Wall Street and go back to Wall Street once they leave the CIA or many generals in the Pentagon end up sitting on the boards of huge corporations. For example General Shelton, who was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff until September 30, 2001, upon his retirement obtained several lucrative corporate positions. Hence, Dwight D. Eisenhower’s statement in his farewell 1960 speech: “In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.”

The following is taken from Chapter 7 (David Simon: The Transformer) of The New Global Leaders: Richard Branson, Percy Barnevik, David Simon and the Remaking of International Business to further illustrate this point; “Twenty-four hours after the Labour party’s landslide victory in the British general election in May 1997, the Financial Times mentioned almost as a by-the-way comment that Sir David Simon, chairman of British Petroleum, was to be offered the position of minister of Europe and a seat in the House of Lords. The rumor was pounced on by the pro-Tory press, clearly eager to exploit what looked like an early breach in Prime Minister Tony Blair’s cabinet...”

[12] Joseph Stark and Martha Wenger, U.S. Ready to Intervene in the Gulf War, Middle East Research and Information Projects (MERIP) Reports, no. 125/126 (July-September, 1984): p.47-48.



Note: The term Persian Gulf War was originally used to describe the Iraq-Iran War. Because of the animosity of Iraq and the Arab Sheikdoms towards Iran a modern naming dispute over the body of water came about. Iraq and the Arab Sheikhdoms started calling the Persian Gulf the “Arab Gulf” or simply the “Gulf.” The name Arab Gulf or Arabian Gulf has been the alternative historical name of the Red Sea, but is used as ammunition in the socio-political dimensions of disputes with Iran, first under Mohammed Reza Pahlavi and then under Ayatollah Khomeini. The disputed name of the body of water between Iran and the Arab Sheikdoms to its south has deliberately been used to fuel ethnic and national tensions between Arabs and Iranians.



[13] Kissinger, Years of Upheaval, Op. cit., p.863.



[14] Zbigniew Brezinski, Out of Control: Global Turmoil on the Eve of the 21st Century (NYC, New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons Macmillan Publishing Company, 1993), p.88.



[15] Thomas E. Ricks, Military Envisions Longer Stay in Iraq, The Washington Post, June 10, 2007, p. A01.

 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/09/AR2007060901464.html



[16] Cheney warns Iran, assures allies on Gulf visit, Reuters, May 11, 2007.



[17] John Edward Wilz, The Making of Mr. Bush’s War: A Failure to Learn from History?, Presidential Studies Quarterly, Summer 1996.

 http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/wilz.htm



[18] Ibid.



[19] Russell Watson et al., Was Ambassador Glaspie Too Gentle with Saddam?, Newsweek, April 1, 1991, p.17.



[20] Excerpts From Iraqi Document on Meeting with US Envoy, The New York Times, September 22, 1990, p.19.



Note: ABC News provided the Iraqi Foreign Ministry transcripts from the July 25, 1990 meeting between Saddam Hussein and April Catherine Glaspie, the U.S. Ambassador to Iraq.



[21] Kaleem Omar, Is the US State Department still keeping April Glaspie under wraps?, Jang, December 25, 2005.



[22] Ibid.



[23] Zbigniew Brzezinski, Introductory Statement on NATO Enlargement, (Testimony, United States Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Washington, District of Columbia, October 9, 2007).



[24] Zbigniew Brzezinski, A geostrategy for Eurasia, Foreign Affairs, vol. 76, no. 5 (September- October, 1997): p.50-64.



Note: The writings from Brzezinski’s paper for Foreign Affairs and the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) were also used for his book The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and the Geostrategic Imperatives that had its first edition published in 1997. Brzezinski’s 1997 Foreign Affairs journal entry is a condensed synopsis of his 1997 book. Points and quotes cited from it are identical or almost identical to the writing from his 1997 book.



[25] Ibid.



[26] Barton Gellman, A Strategy’s Cautious Evolution: Before Sept. 11, the Bush Anti-Terror Effort Was Mostly Ambition, The Washington Post, January 20, 2002, p.A01.



[27] The dual-containment policy used in regards to both Iraq and Iran was designed for two reasons. The first reason was to prepare the framework for U.S. control of both nations, and the second was to prevent Iran from establishing a large sphere of hegemonic control. The U.S. clearly recognized Iran as their adversary in the Middle East, whereas Iraq was identified as an objective. The Iraq-Iran War and the Gulf War, along with U.N. economic sanctions, had broken Iraq.

[28] Oded Yinon, A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties, trans. Israel Shahak, Zionist Plan for the Middle East, ed. Israel Shahak (Belmont, Massachusetts: Association of Arab-American University Graduates, 1982), p.12.



MAPS



[1] The Indo-Arabian Region [map]. Scale not given. In: Michael MccGwire. Military Objectives in Soviet Foreign Policy. Washington, D.C.: Brookings Institution Press, 1987, p.184.


[2] Kenneth Velasquez. The Sino-Soviet Bloc and Three Central Strategic Fronts [map]. Scale not given. In: Zbigniew Brzezinski. The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and the Geostrategic Imperatives. NYC, New York: HarperCollins Publishers, 1997, p.7.

[3] Kenneth Velasquez. Global Zone of Percolating Violence [map]. Scale not given. In: Zbigniew Brzezinski. The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and the Geostrategic Imperatives. NYC, New York: HarperCollins Publishers, 1997, p.53.

[4] Eric Waddell. Middle East Theatre of War [map]. approx. 1:60, 000, 000. In: Michel Chossudovsky, America’s “War on Terrorism.” Pincourt, Québec: Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG), 2003, p.2.



* Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya is an indepedent writer based in Ottawa specializing in Middle Eastern affairs. He is a Research Associate of the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG).

Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya
- Homepage: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6687

Comments

Hide the following 61 comments

Interesting Thesis

21.09.2007 22:41

But to suggest that America provoked Russia into invading Afghanistan is taking paranoia a little too far. If you're going to try to justify this, you've got to do better than quote some rather vague sounding policy docuiments. And just because someone's written a particular policy document doesn't mean that this is an automatic blueprint for the future. Hundreds of policy documents are written each year. Cherry picking the one that fits your this isn't good history.

Similarly with the Iran Iraq war. How exactly did the US persuade Saddam, who at that time was no ally of the US, to invade Iran?

Oh - and the 'dismemberment' of Yugoslavia. I think you might just find that civil war broke out long before US involvement. The West, NATO and America could have stood on the sielines and watched. But how many Screbrenicas do you need before you decide enough is enough?

And to suggest the Iran Iraq war was the cause of the collapse of the Soviet Union is also myopic. The reasons can be found more in the economic collapse in terms of farm production etc, coupled with a loss of authority in its Eastern European satellites.

Henry Kissinger


Some stirred-up Moslems

22.09.2007 10:27

"But to suggest that America provoked Russia into invading Afghanistan is taking paranoia a little too far. If you're going to try to justify this, you've got to do better than quote some rather vague sounding policy docuiments."

The author didn't quote policy documents, they quoted the policy architect.

According to Zbigniew Brzezinski in a 1998 interview with Le Nouvel Observateur, the Soviet Union was baited into invading Afghanistan in 1979 by the Carter Administration and the CIA. [5]

[5] Zbigniew Brezinski, “Oui, la CIA est entrée en Afghanistan avant les Russes...,” Le Nouvel Observateur, January 15-21 Issue, 1998, p.76.

Here is that interview translated by William Blum:

Q: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise: Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?

B: It isn't quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic [intégrisme], having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated: Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today.

B: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn't a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries.

Danny


CIA aid

22.09.2007 11:46

Shall we then put this into the category of the Soviet supply of arms to North Vietnam and the VietCong, provoking America into invading Vietnam? Or the Soviet supply of arms to North Korea, provoking the Korean War? The Soviet supply of missiles to Cuba? Or even the Soviet supply of arms to Saddam?

The Cold War went by proxy wars. Whether we like it or not, Afghanistan was one of those proxies. And it's obvious from Brzezinski's comments that he was not so much interested in destabilising the Middle East as in destabilising Soviet Russia.

Given a choice between 'the West' and Soviet communism, most of the world has overwhelmingly chosen the West. Try a trip through Eastern Europe if you don't believe that. The part that hasn't chosen the West has done so out of religious fanaticism, which, I would hope, is not supported by anyone here.

That aid to the Taliban has come back and bitten the West in a very nasty way. It's called the law of unseen consequences.

Kissinger


'The West's moronocracy

23.09.2007 12:02

"Given a choice between 'the West' and Soviet communism, most of the world has overwhelmingly chosen the West."
Given a choice between 'the Monguls' and death, most of the world overwhelmingly chose the Monguls.

"Try a trip through Eastern Europe if you don't believe that. "
I have travelled there, even before the wall fell, and that is a daft thing to say. For a start, Eastern Europe isn't 'most of the world' and it is moronic to even talk about The West when you really mean the US empire. You take a trip through South America, or Asia, or Africa, and then tell me most of the world has chosen the west. Take a big US or UK flag with you, something to wrap your corpse in on your return.

"That aid to the Taliban has come back and bitten the West in a very nasty way. It's called the law of unseen consequences."
Funny how many 'unforseen consequences' come back to bite 'the West' from US invasions, coups, assasinations, resource-grabs and 'proxy-wars'. You'd think we'd learn eh ? You'd think someone would say 'Hey, maybe we shouldn't be slaughtering these foriegners for their resources just because we can - maybe should should try to live in peace and refuse to submit to government by morons'. 15,000 Soviet soldiers died in Afghanistan before they retreated - four times as many US soldiers died in Vietnam, so do we carry on occupying Afghnaistan until we reach Soviet losses there or US losses in Vietnam ? Any 'law of unforseen consequences' hardly applies to psychopathic morons who don't have the wit to see beyond their own murderous glee and don't care about human life or the consequences of their actions anyway.

Are you really as stupid as your posts suggest or are you just trying to pastiche the war-criminal Kissenger ? What sort of an IM poster models themselves after that second-rate Hitler anyway ? I'd take the time to dissect your false and jingoistic statements in full but I'd rather teach a pig to sing. Do some homework before you snipe at worthy articles.




"The Central Intelligence Agency has an almost unblemished record of screwing up every "secret" armed intervention it ever undertook...
Once Reagan replaced Carter, Wilson was able to restore Zia's aid money and added several millions to the CIA's funds for secretly arming the Afghan guerrillas, each dollar of which the Saudi government secretly matched.

Although Wilson romanticized the mountain warriors of Afghanistan, the struggle was never as uneven as it seemed. Pakistan provided the fighters with sanctuary, training and arms and even sent its own officers into Afghanistan as advisors on military operations. Saudi Arabia served as the fighters' banker, providing hundred of millions with no strings attached. Several governments, including those of Egypt, China and Israel, secretly supplied arms. And the insurgency enjoyed the backing of the United States through the CIA.

Wilson's and the CIA's greatest preoccupation was supplying the Afghans with something effective against the Soviets' most feared weapon, the Mi-24 Hind helicopter gunship. The Red Army used it to slaughter innumerable moujahedeen as well as to shoot up Afghan villages. Wilson favored the Oerlikon antiaircraft gun made in Switzerland (it was later charged that he was on the take from the Zurich-based arms manufacturer). Avrakotos opposed it because it was too heavy for guerrillas to move easily, but he could not openly stand in Wilson's way. After months of controversy, the Joint Chiefs of Staff finally dropped their objections to supplying the American Stinger, President Reagan signed off on it, and the "silver bullet" was on its way. The Stinger had never before been used in combat. It proved to be murderous against the Hinds, and Soviet President Mikhail S. Gorbachev decided to cut his losses and get out altogether. In Wilson's postwar tour of Afghanistan, moujahedeen fighters surrounded him and triumphantly fired their missiles for his benefit. They also gave him as a souvenir the stock from the first Stinger to shoot down a Hind gunship.

The CIA "bluebloods" fired Avrakotos in the summer of 1986, and he retired to Rome. Wilson became chairman of the Intelligence Oversight Committee, at which time he wrote to his CIA friends, "Well, gentlemen, the fox is in the hen house. Do whatever you like." After retiring from Congress in 1996, he became a lobbyist for Pakistan under a contract that paid him $30,000 a month. Meanwhile, the United States lost interest in Afghanistan, which descended into a civil war that the Taliban ultimately won. In the autumn of 2001, the United States returned in force after Al Qaeda retaliated against its former weapon supplier by attacking New York and Washington. The president of the United States went around asking, "Why do they hate us?"

Crile knows a lot about these matters and presents them in a dramatic manner. There are, however, one or two items that he appears unaware of or is suppressing. For the CIA legally to carry out a covert action, the president must authorize a document called a finding. Crile repeatedly says that Carter signed such a finding ordering the CIA to provide covert backing to the moujahedeen after the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan on Dec. 24, 1979. The truth of the matter is that Carter signed the finding on July 3, 1979, six months before the Soviet invasion, and he did so on the advice of his national security advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, in order to try to provoke a Russian incursion. Brzezinski has confirmed this sequence of events in an interview with a French newspaper, and former CIA Director Robert M. Gates says so explicitly in his 1996 memoirs. It may surprise Charlie Wilson to learn that his heroic moujahedeen were manipulated by Washington like so much cannon fodder in order to give the USSR its own Vietnam. The moujahedeen did the job, but as subsequent events have made clear, they may not be grateful to the United States.

Kissmyassenger
- Homepage: http://hnn.us/articles/1491.html


and speaking of morons ...

23.09.2007 22:28

You travelled in Eastern Europe before the Wall came down? Excellent. Then I'm sure you'll agree that there was nothing more abhorrent or morally bankrupt than building barbed wire fences, walls, laying minefields, and putting armed soldiers with orders to shoot to kill in watchtowers, in order to prevent your own people from leaving the country.

I don't want to wrap myself in any flag, more in two abstract ideas [you may find these hard to grasp]. One is the idea of democracy and free elections. No doubt you can sneer at democracy, but would you care to propose a better [practical] system of government? The second is prosperity - prosperity in the sense of being able to feed your family, give them a good eduction, and have doctors and hospitals.

As a result of American involvement in the 1945 war, we now have democratic governments in France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, Austria, Denmark, Norway. As a result of the Cold War we now have democratic governments in Poland, Czech Republic, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Romania, Bulgaria, the Ukraine - and the list probably isn't complete.

Asia, you say? Well, Japan's been a stable liberal democracy for 60 years. Another example of nasty American invasion: Korea. One half has to eat grass, the other probably has more PhDs than Britain. Which is which, I wonder?

Iraq and Afghanistan have had shots at free elections, although establishing a democratic tradition would be uphill work. Tell me, do you think the insurgents [or which word you prefer to use] in those countries are ever going to hold elections?

South America. Ah, now, Cuba. They hate America, don't they? Well, there's something a little odd about that. Millions [literally] have moved from one country to the other. On your thesis,people would be leaving America in their droves for Cuba. Odd, then, that it's the other way round. Perhaps these people don't have your sharp insights into these matters.

Henry Kissinger's bum fluff has a higher IQ than your brain


His country rightwing and wrong

24.09.2007 14:39

"Then I'm sure you'll agree that there was nothing more abhorrent or morally bankrupt than"

The state sponsored genocide in Iraq ? 500,000 children killed by sanctions, over a million killed since your oil grab ?

"No doubt you can sneer at democracy"

I think we should try it sometime. Choosing between voting for two pro-war business parties at a time 90% of the public opposed the war is hardly democracy.

"The second is prosperity - prosperity in the sense of being able to feed your family, give them a good eduction, and have doctors and hospitals."

By stealing food from Iraqi families, destroying their schools and hospitals and driving their doctors into exile ? I'd rather be poor.

"As a result of American involvement in the 1945 war, we now have democratic governments in France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, Austria, Denmark, Norway. As a result of the Cold War we now have democratic governments in Poland, Czech Republic, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Romania, Bulgaria, the Ukraine - and the list probably isn't complete."

Here is a more complete list :  http://members.aol.com/bblum6/American_holocaust.htm

"Asia, you say? Well, Japan's been a stable liberal democracy for 60 years."
And they are very grateful Hiroshima nd Nagasaki were cleansed. Burma has been stable too thanks to USuk backing.

"Another example of nasty American invasion: Korea. One half has to eat grass, the other probably has more PhDs than Britain. Which is which, I wonder?"

They are lucky they have grass to eat - if only Agent Orange had been invented earlier then the US chemical warfare program could've sorted that out as it did in Vietnam. As it was the illegal US chemical weapons were used solely on people in that war. Hey, you missed out Cambodia, Laos and Indonesia - was that because your US Nazi namesake helped kill millions of innocents there ?

"Iraq and Afghanistan have had shots at free elections, although establishing a democratic tradition would be uphill work. Tell me, do you think the insurgents [or which word you prefer to use] in those countries are ever going to hold elections?"

Not while they are occupied. Besides, the last time they did hold free elections you overthrew thm and installed Saddam.

"South America. Ah, now, Cuba. They hate America, don't they? Well, there's something a little odd about that. Millions [literally] have moved from one country to the other. On your thesis,people would be leaving America in their droves for Cuba. Odd, then, that it's the other way round. Perhaps these people don't have your sharp insights into these matters."

The only example of South Americans liking the US is Cuba ? What a freak. What a sorry apologist for US warcrimes.

Even cheerleaders for the Iraq war like Christopher Hitchens can acknowledge Kissinger is a war criminal, and a second rate pseudo-intellectual. You are at best a sad troll - at best.

Kiss Off


Casualties

24.09.2007 15:58

You put great emphasis on the casualties in Iraq, and other places. Now, liberating Europe from Hitler in 1944-45 killed millions of people, displaced tens of millions, and destroyed cities across Europe. Tell me - would you then say that we shouldn't have invaded Europe, and that we should have left Hitler alone?

pissinger


yanker

24.09.2007 17:03

"You put great emphasis on the casualties in Iraq, and other places."

Yes, that is a point of difference between us.

"Now, liberating Europe from Hitler in 1944-45 killed millions of people, displaced tens of millions, and destroyed cities across Europe. Tell me - would you then say that we shouldn't have invaded Europe, and that we should have left Hitler alone?"

If the US and it's corporations, including Bushs grampa Prescott, hadn't supported the rise of Nazism, and had opposed it say in 1933 rather than 1941 then no world war would have ben necessary. Besides, it was the Russians who beat the Germans not the Yanks. Even if there was some credit for a belated and hypocritical US push against fascism, it hardly justifies the next 60 years of US aggression.

JohnnyComeLately


evasion and side stepping ...

24.09.2007 17:39

And what do expect the US to have done in 1933 - invade Germany? At least they didn't make a pact with them, unlike Stalin?

But try answering the question - was the invasion of Europe in 1944 by American and British troops justified?

don't shoot the missinger


Cowards and hypocrites under one God - mammon

24.09.2007 18:32

"And what do expect the US to have done in 1933 - invade Germany?"

Perhaps it would have been enough to oppose fascism rather than feed it's military-industrial complex and praise it to the rafters. Maybe that is all it would have taken. Certainly by 1936 then it was perfectly obvious - but not very profitable - that fascism and Nazism had to be opposed in Spain - and yet still you shipped war-materials to Germany and opposed the free Spanish republic. But then, if opposing fascism was of the slightest concern to you, if it really was a matter of principle rather than Imperial expansion, would you care to explain where the brave forces of freedom were in 1939 and 1940 ?

HenryFord


cake and eat it ...

24.09.2007 19:06

Name me one country that took any form of sanctions against Germany in 1933. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing, isn't it?

And by 'you', I assume you mean America.

Now, let's see. Nasty America is always invading countries, bringing death and destruction. Naughty America, shouldn't attack people.

Naught America. Didn't attack Germany in 1939.

Cake and eat it.

splissinger


Hindsight is simple hisory repeating itself

24.09.2007 19:55

"Name me one country that took any form of sanctions against Germany in 1933."

I'm not a nationalist, I'm an anarchist. International and domestic anarchism opposed fascism from the start. Your nationalist corporate elite put the Nazis in power and funded and equipped them.

" Hindsight is such a wonderful thing, isn't it?"

Ah, your 'law of unseen consequences' again. How could you know empowering Nazism would backfire ? Don't you recognise laws of comon decency or at least common sense.

So Hitler was your guy. who could forsee how he would be so ungrateful. And Saddam was your guy - who was to know though ? And Ossam Bin Laden, one more decent guy funded, trained and equipped by the US of A - totally unforseeable to anyone in the US 'elite'.

Four Skins


'Hitler was my guy'?

24.09.2007 20:34

What are you on? Can I have some of it? Hitler didn't need any help from America, which is, I suppose, what you're talking about.

International anarchism opposed Hitler? Jolly good. What did his friend do?

And by the way, it was the Soviet Bloc that supplied Saddam with arms.

splutteringer


US fascism alive and well

24.09.2007 21:22

"Hitler didn't need any help from America, which is, I suppose, what you're talking about."

So why did the US help them so much ? A few famous examples -

How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power
 http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html

Henry Ford and the Nazis
 http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/chapter_06.htm

IBM supplied the counting machines to add up all the Jewish dead in the Holocaust.
 http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/

Coca-cola produced Fanta for the Nazis.
 http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-food/coca_cola.htm


"International anarchism opposed Hitler? Jolly good. What did his friend do?"
Long after Hitler had destroyed the Spanish anarchist communes with US supplied funds and technology, the anarchist George Elser tried the first assasination attempt on Hitler - while Henry Ford hung Hitlers portrait in his office.

"And by the way, it was the Soviet Bloc that supplied Saddam with arms."
The Soviet Bloc supplied a CIA employee with weapons ? So far the entire gist of your argument is that the US today is not much worse than Stalinist Russia. That is arguable but it is a fair comparison. Bravo.

Rambo is Dead


Wow!

24.09.2007 22:11

Coca cola supplied fanta to the Germans! Shock horror!

George Bush's grandad was trading with Germany. Well, that rules him out as a man of moral probity. The sins of the father shall be visited upon them, even unto the third and fourth generation. No skeletons in your cupboard then? I'm sure you have an unblemished family tree dating back to mediaeval times.

I just wish I had your moral blinkers. China occupies Tibet? Silence. Genocide in Darfur? Whisper the magic words 'oil in Sudan', and all is forgiven. Gulags in Russia? What are they? Border guards shooting their own countrymen in Eastern Germany? A mere oversight.

By the way, what American technology did the Germans use in Spain?

splatteger


Henry Ford was a fascist

24.09.2007 22:34

Henry Ford's 'Grand Cross of the German Eagle' (1938)
Henry Ford's 'Grand Cross of the German Eagle' (1938)

Ford built tanks for the Nazis
And the Nazis used those tanks
To kill off lots of soldiers
In the U.S. Army ranks
Yes, Henry Ford was a fascist
And a nasty one was he
He'd build tanks for anyone
For the proper fee

Henry Ford spoke to his lackeys
And he said, "isn't this great?
"We'll attack our enemies
"And we'll retaliate!"
Henry Ford was a fascist
And a cunning liar, too
A brownshirt with a swastika
Draped in red, white and blue

Henry Ford spoke to his workers
And he said, "you dare not strike!
"You must be patriotic
"And take on my Third Reich!"
Yes, Henry Ford was a fascist
And he had not a care
About the dying soldiers
That made him a billionaire

Ford built tanks for the Nazis
And he built many more
To kill off lots of peasants
In Peru and Salvador
Yes, Henry Ford was a fascist
I heard that when he died
The last words to leave his lips
Was "arbeit macht frei"

The dollar was his icon
On whichever shore
And Henry's only motto
Was "make money and make war"
Yes, Henry Ford was a fascist
That's all I have to say
I will spit on Henry's rotting grave
Until my dying day

drovix


spit on his grave as much as you like.

24.09.2007 22:49

Whoever said he was a wonderful human being?

And what has Henry Ford to do with American foreign policy in the Middle East 70 years later

muttinger


Born in the USA ?

24.09.2007 22:55

Read the link, Ford's French and German plants produced vehicles for the Wehrmacht. Ford was also financing Hitler since 1922, for which he was rewarded by the highest honour bestowable upon a non-German.

"The Bavarian Diet has long had the information that the Hitler movement was partly financed by an American anti-Semitic chief, who is Henry Ford. Mr. Ford's interest in the Bavarian anti-Semitic movement began a year ago when one of Mr. Ford's agents, seeking to sell tractors, came in contact with Diedrich Eichart, the notorious Pan-German. Shortly after, Herr Eichart asked Mr. Ford's agent for financial aid. The agent returned to America and immediately Mr. Ford's money began coming to Munich. Herr Hitler openly boasts of Mr. Ford's support and praises Mr. Ford as a great individualist and a great anti-Semite. A photograph of Mr. Ford hangs in Herr Hitler's quarters, which is the center of monarchist movement."

Most ironically, that other Henry you honour, Heinz Alfred Kissinger, fled Nazi genocide to the great ol' USA where he worked to become the Jewish religions greatest ever exporter of genocide. The law of unforseen consequences ? I think not. As foul as Sharon was, as most Israeli leaders have been, none of them have slaughtered so many for so little. That is the nature of the USAs unbridled power, it magnifies human frailty so it burns all of humanity. With napalm.

Got in a little hometown jam
So they put a rifle in my hand
Sent me off to a foreign land
To go and kill the yellow man

Born in the U.S.A.
I was born in the U.S.A.
I was born in the U.S.A.
I was born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.

UWarCriminal


For the emotionally challenged

24.09.2007 23:01

"And what has Henry Ford to do with American foreign policy in the Middle East 70 years later"

US corporations like Ford still buy US foreign policy. And guess what, Henry Fords best pal, the equally fascist Prescott Bush, he bought the White House. Which is pretty relevant to American foreign policy in the Middle East 70 years later.

USnake


You're welcome to your paranoid delusions

24.09.2007 23:22

The 'corporations' buy American foreign policy. The 'corporations' were bankrolling Hitler. So how come America goes to war with Hitler? Cognitive dissonance? [Hey, was an 'illegal war'?]

Oh, and by the way, was the American/British invasion in 1944 justified? Please answer, someone.

splittinger


PS - I loved your link

24.09.2007 23:33

www.reformed-theology.org

Its article on the United Nations was particularly interesting, as was its stance on alternative medicine and the fluoridation of water. Pollution of the vital essences, eh?

A really worthwhile site, that one.

Keep coming with the loonies!

splattergroit


War! What is it good for?

24.09.2007 23:55

"The 'corporations' buy American foreign policy. The 'corporations' were bankrolling Hitler. So how come America goes to war with Hitler? Cognitive dissonance? [Hey, was an 'illegal war'?]"

No, war is profitable for corporations. And under US law, corporate profit is the primary legal function of corporations. The parties to that war were all funded by the US - at interest - for profit. The UK finally paid off it's 'war-debt' to the US last year. The Nazis were bankrolled from the start by the US, just as Saddam was, just as Ossam was.

"Oh, and by the way, was the American/British invasion in 1944 justified? Please answer, someone."

Hey, Harold Shipman saved a few lives while murdering hundreds but the question 'Was he justified in saving a few lives for pay while slaughtering hundreds ?' doesn't occur to rational people. He was a serial killer. Although he never commited genocide so he doesn't compare to Britains biggest murderers, Blair and Brown et al.



War! War! What is it good for?
War! War ! What is it good for?

Mobilisation
Science
Religion
Domination
Communication
Teleportation

War! War! What is it good for?
War! War ! What is it good for?

GM, IBM, Newsweek, CNN
Universal, European, IPT, VCD
Industry

GM, IBM, Newsweek, CNN
Universal, European IPT
Reuters, MGM, CM, Sony, Universal,

War! War ! What is it good for?
War! War ! What is it good for?

FollowTheMoney
- Homepage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBn6Mr34LGA


Everyone doubled their money

25.09.2007 00:16

I’ve got to be honest with you. When the September 11 situation happened, I don’t want to take it lightly, it’s not a light situation, it’s a devastating act, it was really a bad thing, it was one of the worst things I’ve seen in my lifetime, but I will tell you and every trader will tell you who was not in that building and who was buying gold and who owned gold and silver, that when it happened the first thing you thought about was, ‘Well, how much is gold up?’ The first thing that came to my mind was ‘My god, gold must be exploding!’ Fortunately for us, all our clients were in gold. So when it went up, they all doubled their money. Everybody doubled their money. It was a blessing in disguise. Devastating, crushing, heart-shattering, but in a financial sense, for my clients in the market, they all made money.

Now, I wasn’t looking for this type of help. But it happened. When the U.S. bombed Iraq back in 1991, the price of oil went from thirteen dollars to forty dollars a barrel, for chrissake. Now we couldn’t wait for the bombs to start raining down on Saddam Hussein. We were all excited. We wanted Saddam to really create problems. Do whatever you have to do. Set fire to some more oil wells, because the price is going to go higher. Every broker was chanting that. There was not a broker that I know of that wasn’t excited about that. This was a disaster. This was something that was a catastrophe happening. Bombing. Wars.

In devastation there is opportunity.

Morally Bankrupt
- Homepage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoQOXepaCjk


Oh, right, I get it now.

25.09.2007 00:28

Henry Ford bankrolled Hitler in 1921 because he knew Hitler was out to start a world war, and Ford also bankrolled Roosevelt [don't think so, somehow - Ford hated Roosevelt] so that Roosevelt would join the war so Mr Ford could make lots of money. Well, I suppose it makes sense to someone.

Well, Mr Ford wouldn't have got his money back from his German investment, would he? Since Britain, Russia and America flattened Germany. Oops. Didn't think of that one, did he? Good thinking, Batman.

I gather from what you're saying that you don't think the invasion of 1944 was justified. Oh, well, if we'd have held off, it would have given Hitler the chance to finalise his solution. I'm sure the Dutch and the French and the Belgians would have been equally grateful.

spattergroin


The US elite bankrolled fascist wars - and still do

25.09.2007 02:31

"Henry Ford bankrolled Hitler in 1921 because he knew Hitler was out to start a world war, and Ford also bankrolled Roosevelt [don't think so, somehow - Ford hated Roosevelt] so that Roosevelt would join the war so Mr Ford could make lots of money. Well, I suppose it makes sense to someone."

Duh. Henry Ford made money by selling weapons to both sides. As did all US capitalists.
Even you can understand that eh ? And even you should understand that never stopped in 1945. The capitalist elite you cheerlead for created and empowered the Nazis, created and empowered Saddam, created and empowered Ossama. And made a new buck every death. But they couldn't have done it without moronic shits like you cheerleading them.

"Well, Mr Ford wouldn't have got his money back from his German investment, would he? Since Britain, Russia and America flattened Germany. Oops. Didn't think of that one, did he? Good thinking, Batman."

The Ford company profitted hugely from that war - and from every war they sponsored since.

"I gather from what you're saying that you don't think the invasion of 1944 was justified."
You gather nothing. You misrepresent, distract and murder for personal profit.

"Oh, well, if we'd have held off, it would have given Hitler the chance to finalise his solution."
Hey, the same Hitler whose portrait the US capitalists hung on their walls ? The same Hitler who awarded them medals ? The same Hitler whose supporters now mimic his 'total war' nationalistic xenophobia from the safety of the Whitehouse they bought ? The same Hitler whose propaganda minister had false letters planted in the last free newspapers in Nazi Germany ?

You've got quite a legacty you are upholding, Mr Kissenger. You asked about my family in the second world war. My relatives died then on the North Atlantic run. Fucking fools that they were, trading one fascism for another with their lives. Bet your public-school sort never sacrificed, only profited from the misery you sowed.

No more though.

Now let's recap - you went straight from "But to suggest that America provoked Russia into invading Afghanistan is taking paranoia a little too far" to admitting that is exactly what happened. You never had any credibitlity after that, I've merely used you as a vehicle to expose the corruption of your masters by countering your propaganda with fact. What a useful idiot you are.

S C U M


Generalising from the particular

25.09.2007 08:24

So you find an American industrialist that supported Hitler.

An American industrialist supported Hitler, therefore all American industrialists support Hitler.

Good logic that.

Let's look at the original thesis. America supplying arms to rebels in Afghanistan 'provokes' Russia into invading.

Russia didn't have to invade at all. It had already supplied vast quantities of arms to the then Kabul regime. That regime was failing, with or without American aid. But Russia couldn't bear to see one of its client regimes collapsing. Hence the invasion.

On that basis, you could blame Russia for supplying arms to the Viet Cong, thus provoking America into invading.

Only difference is that countries which America has invaded [with the exception of Vietnam] are all now democracies. Well - Iraq and Afghanistan might become democratic - but there are some religious fanatics standing in the way. Which do you prefer - democracy or theocracy?

usefulidiot


What democracy ?

25.09.2007 13:00

" So you find an American industrialist that supported Hitler."

Sorry, are you referring to Prescott Bush or Henry Ford ? Or IBM or Coca Cola or all the other corporations that worked with the Nazis ? Or all the global capitalist bankers who supported them ?

"America supplying arms to rebels in Afghanistan 'provokes' Russia into invading."
Since the US admit that they sent in billions of dollars of funds and high tech weaponary for Ossama Bin Laden and his buddies, that Ossama personally was trained in the UK by the SAS, that CIA agents fought with the Mujahadeen before the Soviet invasion deliberately to entice them into invading, it seems churlish of you to have denied it as 'paranoid'. Rather than admit that error though, you compound it by blaming the subsequent blowback as unforseeable. That'd make a good legal defence - I wonder why the Unabomber never tried that - "Sure, I posted them explosive packages but the fact that they exploded and killed people was totally unforseen".

"On that basis, you could blame Russia for supplying arms to the Viet Cong, thus provoking America into invading."
With the small difference Afghanistan was a border state to Russia and Vietnam is the other side of the world from the US.

"Only difference is that countries which America has invaded [with the exception of Vietnam] are all now democracies."
The US has a long history of overthrowing democracies violently to install dictators. Any look how they welcome democratically elected governments like Hamas in Palestine - or the democratically elected Islamist goverment in Algeria ( best cancel those elections eh?) - or how they instigated a coup against the democratically elected president of Venezuala. And these are after the cold war, so that old sorry excuse can't even be applied. Being able to elect any government that the US approves of is hardly democracy.

"Well - Iraq and Afghanistan might become democratic - but there are some religious fanatics standing in the way."
Bush and Blair ?

"Which do you prefer - democracy or theocracy?"
Ah, the old, 'Don't you prefer our Starship Troopers to those evil Arachnids ?'. Do you prefer US corporate enslavement or being eaten by cancer ? Constantly trying to justify US corporate evil by comparing it to other evils just exposes how evil you are.

I prefer participative democracy aka anarchy to the bloody tyranny of US oligarchs raping the earth to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Tell me, who was the last poor person elected to the White House ? Since most people are poor, even in the US, and since you suppose it is a democracy, then the law of averages would suggest most Presidents would be poor people.
So how do you explain that they are all rich bastards - do inferior poor people just naturally prefer to be led by the rich elite ?

och


Corrections

25.09.2007 14:57

'Tell me, who was the last poor person elected to the White House ?'

Ever looked at Clinton's background? No one could call that rich or privileged. Nor Nixon's. Nor Ford or Truman, for that matter.

Oh, and those religious fanatics - well, at least Bush and Blair allow women to go to school, and they don't hang homosexuals in public. We've just been told there're no homosexuals in Iran - not surprising really, they've hanged them all.

Afghanistan was on Russia's borders - well, that excuses everything.

You do get worked up about Germany in the 30s. In the 30s, the German Government was just one among many dictatorships [and since you appear to despise democracy too, then I don't see why you get worked up about fascists]. There was nothing unique about Germany in 1933. If you didn't do business with them on that basis, then you wouldn't have done business with Spain, Italy, Germany, Russia, either, and you wouldn't do business today with China.

gung hi


Impoverished Lawyers

25.09.2007 15:29

You asked for corrections. Clinton, Nixon, Ford and Truman were lawyers and judges, hardly the poorest of professions - and Ford was never even elected. Spain in '33 wasn't a dictatorship.

"If you didn't do business with them on that basis, then you wouldn't have done business with Spain, Italy, Germany, Russia, either, and you wouldn't do business today with China."

That shocks you doesn't it ? Your commitment to democracy doesn't extend to not profiteering from genocidal dictatorships. You are prepared to sell others freedom for your prosperity. Here is a list of companies you should add to your portfolio:
 http://www.burmacampaign.org.uk/dirty_list/dirty_list_details.html

Lucre


Lawyers

25.09.2007 16:22

Ah, you make my point for me rather well.

Yes, most were lawyers [although Truman wasn't]. But they came from impoverished backgrounds. Now, taking a leap of imagination - you've got to be quite competent to get elected President. So, despite their backgrounds, they were competent enough to go through college and make a living for themselves in quite a competitive environment. Competent people tend to get noticed, and so they became Senators, Governors, and eventually Presidents. That's supposed to be the American dream, isn't it - log cabin to White House. And hey - look, it works.

Well, I hope you don't buy your children any toys or trainers - the chances are that they're made in China or some other Far Eastern country where they pay minimal wages.

gunga didn't


Shit floats

25.09.2007 18:23

I don't buy sweatshop. Truman was a judge as I said. As for your admiration for your rulers -

Well did you hear, there’s a natural order.
Those most deserving will end up with the most.
That the cream cannot help but always rise up to the top,
Well I say: Shit floats.
If you thought things had changed,
Friend you’d better think again,
Bluntly put in the fewest of words,
Cunts are still running the world,
Cunts are still running the world.

Now the working classes are obsolete,
They are surplus to societies needs,
So let ‘em all kill each other,
And get it made overseas.
That’s the word don’t you know,
From the guys thats running the show,
Lets be perfectly clear boys and girls,
Cunts are still running the world,
Cunts are still running the world.

Oh feed your children on Cray fish and Lobster tails,
Find a school near the top of the league,
In theory I respect your right to exist,
I will kill ya if you move in next to me,
Ah it stinks, it sucks, it’s anthropologically unjust,
But the takings are up by a third, Oh So
Cunts are still running the world,
Cunts are still running the world.

Your free market is perfectly natural,
Or do you think that I’m some kind of dummy,
It’s the ideal way to order the world,
Fuck the morals, does it make any money?
And if you don’t like it? Then leave.
Or use your right to protest on the street,
Yeah, use your rights but don’t imagine that it’s heard, Oh no no,
Cunts are still running the world,
Cunts are still running the world.

jc


Sweatshops

25.09.2007 18:37

Well, if you paid for that computer you're sitting in front of, then you almost certainly have bought sweatshop. Almost all the components in it will have come from the Far East. Taiwan is big in motherboards, and I'm sure you'll have some ideological object to Taiwan. A lot of hard disks come from China. Other components from the likes of Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia. There'll be tantalum capacitors on the motherboard, and tantalum comes mainly from, I think, the Congo. There was a campaign a little while ago asking people to boycott mobile phones because they used tantalum capacitors. Of course you could try the all British Babbage Mark 2 ...

So don't try the 'holy than thou'.

gunga who?


Holier than you at least

25.09.2007 19:52

the taste of power
the taste of power

Unfortunately all my PCs were heading for landfill or recycling until I resurrected them. Morally it's like not paying for meat but eating it if it's going to waste. I wish I had bought one of them, just so you could have scored one point after 16 vapid and inconsistent posts. Of course even a valid point about sweatshop conditions in component bases in capitalist 'democracies' like Mexico and Thailand would be little more than a platitude from a cheerleader for capitalist genocidal elites.

IBM, Dell and HP under fire over 'Sweatshop' computer factories
 http://hardware.silicon.com/desktops/0,39024645,39118021,00.htm

'snotFair


Are you thinking of becoming a politician?

25.09.2007 20:37

Because you're very good at evading questions ...

Do you think the Normandy invasions were justified?

googlie doo


Just don't get it

26.09.2007 00:43

"Do you think the Normandy invasions were justified?"

Justified ? A moral word, as in just, as in justice. You ask me my opinion if that slaughter was just.

You model yourself after a war-criminal as guilty of genocide as any concentration camp sadist. You excuse every american slaughter, every betrayal of true democracy, as justified for your prosperity.

I don't care what motive you have for asking my opinion on the morality of the Normandy landings, and I don't care why you feel justified in asking me moral questions about battles the policies you advocate caused. I know the consequences you claim were unforseen were perfectly forseeable. Don't you realise Hitlers minions thought his policies were justified as surely as you think Kissengers crimes are justified ?

The reason I can't answer that question is you have proven you wouldn't understand the answer, we have no common translation of what justice is.

Danny


Wrong about two things

26.09.2007 08:21

I don't model myself on anyone.

'You excuse every american slaughter, every betrayal of true democracy, as justified for your prosperity'

Wrong. Not for my prosperity. For the prosperity of people in Western and Eastern Europe, in Japan, in Korea, and many other places.

There does come a time in life when you have to make a decision. Are you going to stand by and watch some youth mug an old lady? Are you going to stand by whilst border guards shot people? Are you going to sit in front of your television and watch marches in Burma being dispersed by riot police? Are you going to allow Eastern Europe dominated by the KGB and its offshoots?

Hitler thought his policies were justified. So do we sit and watch as he carries them out?

googlie don't


hypocrite

26.09.2007 10:48

You called yourself Kissinger and praised him.
Kissinger carpet bombed Cambodia, a peaceful and friendly nation, killing six hundred thousand of innocents. This led to the rise of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge who went on to slaughter a million of his own people in a genocide. Pol Pot was widely identified as a Hitler and eventually the Vietnamese ousted him in a genuine case of humanitarian military intervention. So the US and then the UK supported him and his death squads as they continued their slaughter from the jungles. This wasn't tactical, strategic or coldwar realpolitik on the part of the americans, this was pure spite at having been humiliated militarily in Vietnam.

You cannot condemn Pol Pot without condeming Kissenger. Similarly, you cannot condemn Hitler without condemning Ford, Bush and the other capitalists who bankrolled him. Of course we cannot sit back and leave Hitler and Pol Pot once they are slaughtering, we should oppose them from the start. We should also oppose the US capitalists and 'democrats' who were beind them. So don't talk to me about opposing bloody dictators - the first step you have to take is to stop supporting them.

Lying for Empire : How to Commit War Crimes With A Straight Face
 http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/American_Empire/Nixon_Cambodia_LFE.html

Danny


Please read a little more carefully

26.09.2007 11:20

I have never praised Kissinger in any posts. In fact, I haven't named him anywhere other than in those initial signatures - which were supposed to be 'ironic'. [Look it up]

'Similarly, you cannot condemn Hitler without condemning Ford, Bush and the other capitalists who bankrolled him'

Oh yes, you can. Old country, new dictator. Now, if we have moral standards as high as yours, you can say 'no truck with dictators anywhere' [which by your standards, would mean not trading with genocidal America. Pity about those Intel processors and the Internet...]

Seen the film 'The Last King of Scotland'? Obote overthrown to general relief of population. Amin comes in. Looks to be a sensible chap. Might be worth giving him some help. A few years down the road, he turns out to be an ogre. If you can look into the future, you can say, don't touch this chap. But we can't look into the future. Museveni comes to power in Uganda. Should we treat him in the same way just in case he turns out to be another Amin? Or do you invest in the country in the hope of turning things round?

So, is anyone who invested in Uganda after the overthrow of Obote responsible for Amin's atrocities?

googlie didn't


Making a killing on the market

26.09.2007 12:06

"So, is anyone who invested in Uganda after the overthrow of Obote responsible for Amin's atrocities?"

Of course. Jesus fucking Christus, you ask last as if it is a morally arguable question. I don't like to bandy about the word 'evil' or remotely diagnose someones mental problems, but even a child should realise if you invest in genocidal dictators then you are party to their crimes.

You are implying Hitler suddenly went bad and that was unforseeable. That it was okay for US industrialists to fund, support and trade with the Nazis before that point. It was okay for Ford to bankroll him in 1922. So I'm wondering when you think you would have realised that trading with the Nazis was unacceptable ? By 1928 ? 1933 ? 1938 ? 1939 ? 1941 ?

In fact those nice, prosperity bringing industrialists were trading with Germany until it was made illegal six days after Pearl Harbor. In effect, US capitalists were allies of Hitler until after the US belatedly went to war. Justify that.

Now you claim to have been being ironic by calling yourself Kissenger and praising his intelligence. I had asked if that was a pastiche, and belatedly you claim it was. With hindsight. So were the 600,000 innocents Cambodians killed by the 4,500 US bombing raids one of your many 'unforseen consequences ? "We dropped the bombs but who could have known that they would explode ?"

And what about Reagan and Thatcher sending their special forces to train Khmer Rouge death squads AFTER the genocide ? That wasn't unforseeable was it, that was inexcusable. Hindsight ? You and your leaders can't see anything with forsight or hindsight because of the flashing neon dollar signs in front of your eyes.

Danny


Sigh. Read it more carefully.

26.09.2007 12:43

'if you invest in genocidal dictators then you are party to their crimes'

If you've read it more carefully, you'd realise that the point being made was that no one knew Amin would turn out as he did until some years later.

Suppose you've just invented a widget that will straighten bananas to satisfy EU regulations. Rather than build your factory in Europe, you decide to build it in Uganda. Invest in the Third World. Give lots of employment to locals. Amin's just come into power. Right, he's Army, and it was a coup, but it looks as if he'll be good for the country - at least, at first sight [remember our Scottish doctor?]. You sink your life savings into the factory, and employ lots of locals. Uganda's exports boom.

Then people start disappearing, and the expulsions begin, and so on. As the investor, you can choose to close down the factory, bankrupt yourself, throw lots of locals out of work, ruin the balance of payments - or you can keep going, and later be castigating by Danny as being morally deficient.

If only life were so easy.

googlie couldn't


smell the coffee

26.09.2007 13:35

"Right, he's Army, and it was a coup, but it looks as if he'll be good for the country"

No, he didn't look good. And your lot didn't stop investing in him even when he it was obvious to everyone he was bad.
The Scottish doctor was fictional. The Scottish investors in Amin -even after the slaughters - were real. The Asian refugees who fled to Scotland are real.

Kissinger was a bigger war-criminal than Amin, but he was your man so I can see why to try to distract. Kissenger created Pol Pot so I see why you ignore that. Hitler was your man so I see why you brush over that.

Fallujah is real. The million+ dead in Iraq are real. Your 'unforseen consequences' were predicted on Indymedia before the fact. And yet there was a paid propaganda to distract from that here as elsewhere. Calling me 'holier than thou' is like saying I don't stink as much as shit.

Danny


Baffled

26.09.2007 14:38

As to why you keep on 'Kissinger was my man', 'Hitler was my man'

I don't give a damn about Kissinger. What leads you to the idea that 'Hitler' was my man I haven't a clue.

What do you want to see in Iraq? Saddam back? The equivalent of the Taliban in power? If neither of these, what then?

googlie couldn't


Shoah-Lite

26.09.2007 15:01

"As to why you keep on 'Kissinger was my man', 'Hitler was my man'"

Hey, you called yourself Kissinger and both defended his intelligence and his realpolitk. Then you went on to defend US investors in Nazism - a position you still haven't tried to pass off as 'irony'. Yet. Auswitz-Is-Us.

"I don't give a damn about Kissinger. What leads you to the idea that 'Hitler' was my man I haven't a clue."
I was too polite to agree you haven't a clue, but now you mention it...you really don't.

"What do you want to see in Iraq? Saddam back? The equivalent of the Taliban in power? If neither of these, what then?"

I would like to see the genocidal ocuppiers, thoise who put Saddam in power and then punished the Iraiq people for their crime, to retreat today. I would like to see the main perpitrators of the Iraqi genocide - Bush and Blair et al - in the dock tommorow. I would like to see the US sponsors, funders and trainers of Saddam and Ossama in the same dock. And at this point, I would like cheerleaders of genocide like you to be on trial with them - you do know what happened to your predecessor Lord Haw Haw, dont you ?

Kill the tyrants, free the people, fuck the empire.

Danny


History

26.09.2007 18:31

Mind you, it is a little difficult to debate with someone whose nuanced view of history runs something like:

'I'm not going to debate the Normandy landings because if CocaCola hadn't produced Fanta in Germany in the 1930s, the Second World war wouldn't have happened.'

Pol Pot


Another view of Henry Ford

26.09.2007 20:40

' The first plants in Germany were built in the 1920s with the encouragement of Herbert Hoover and the Commerce Department, which agreed with Ford's theory that international trade was essential to world peace.'

source:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_ford#Pacifism

Henry Drof


Another view of Hitler

26.09.2007 21:40

Ford recognised at last
Ford recognised at last

It's good to see we have some Nazis posting. I love the 'Another View of Henry Ford' and thought I'd save you the bother of rehabilitating Hitler too, so here goes:
'Adolf Hitler was an animal loving vegitarian who simply wanted a united and peaceful world. Without Jews.'

So, was Henry Ford a fascist or not ? Why not judge from his own introduction to his seminal and influential book, "The International Jew, The World’s Foremost Problem":




Why discuss the Jewish Question? Because it is here, and because its emergence into American thought should contribute to its solution, and not to a continuance of those bad conditions which surround the Question in other countries.

The Jewish Question has existed in the United States for a long time. Jews themselves have known this, even if Gentiles have not. There have been periods in our own country when it has broken forth with a sullen sort of strength which presaged darker things to come. Many signs portend that it is approaching an acute stage.

Not only does the Jewish Question touch those matters that are of common knowledge, such as financial and commercial control, usurpation of political power, monopoly of necessities, and autocratic direction of the very news that the American people read; but it reaches into cultural regions and so touches the very heart of American life.

This question reaches down into South America and threatens to become an important factor in Pan-American relations. It is interwoven with much of the menace of organized and calculated disorder which troubles the nations today. It is not of recent growth, but its roots go deep, and the long Past of this Problem is counterbalanced by prophetic hopes and programs which involve a very deliberate and creative view of the Future.

This little book is the partial record of an investigation of the Jewish Question. It is printed to enable interested readers to inform themselves on the data published in The Dearborn Independent prior to Oct. 1, 1920. The demand for back copies of the paper was so great that the supply was exhausted early, as was also a large edition of a booklet containing the first nine articles of the series. The investigation still proceeds, and the articles will continue to appear as heretofore until the work is done.

The motive of this work is simply a desire to make facts known to the people. Other motives have, of course, been ascribed to it. But the motive of prejudice or any form of antagonism is hardly strong enough to support such an investigation as this. Moreover, had an unworthy motive existed, some sign of it would inevitably appear in the work itself. We confidently call the reader to witness that the tone of these articles is all that it should be. The International Jew and his satellites, as the conscious enemies of all that Anglo-Saxons mean by civilization, are not spared, nor is that unthinking mass which defends anything that a Jew does, simply because it has been taught to believe that what Jewish leaders do is Jewish. Neither do these articles proceed upon a false emotion of brotherhood and apology, as if this stream of doubtful tendency in the world were only accidentally Jewish. We give the facts as we find them; that of itself is sufficient protection against prejudice or passion.

This volume does not complete the case by any means. But it brings the reader along one step. In future compilations of these and subsequent articles the entire scope of the inquiry will more clearly appear.

Danny
- Homepage: http://www.jrbooksonline.com/Intl_Jew_full_version/ijtoc_.htm


US fascism - 1907 to 2007

26.09.2007 21:54

Ford's first issue
Ford's first issue

' The first plants in Germany were built in the 1920s with the encouragement of Herbert Hoover and the Commerce Department, which agreed with Ford's theory that international trade was essential to world peace.'

Hitler was so inspired by Fords virulent hatred for Jews that he plagiarised large parts of it when he wrote Mein Kampf. In fact, if we want to see 'another view of Ford', perhaps it should be to recognise him as the father of fascism.

Of course he profited from the war hugely. As did Prescott Bush, who made so much money his family were able to buy the Whitehouse for his son and grandson and so launch more fascist 'total-wars'.

Danny


So Ford was anti-semitic

26.09.2007 22:06

So were lots of other people.

Tanks - maybe not:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Germany

'Increasing military production in 1942' - doesn't mention tanks, though. And I would have thought that Henry Ford had very influence over events in Germany in 1942.

So, you've proved he's anti-Semitic [then quite a few people on Indymedia are], but you haven't shown he made tanks for the Nazis.

drof


Ford in germany

26.09.2007 22:10

the Thirties, the management of Ford's German subsidiary felt so threatened by the hostility of the Third Reich that it consistently sought to ingratiate itself with the Nazi regime in order to keep the company viable. The importance of the government's good will for the Ford subsidiary's prosperity cannot be overstated; it became apparent as early as 1936, when Ford in Germany was denied certification as a national producer, a certification necessary if it was to be awarded government contracts for manufacturing. With such contracts steadily growing to constitute the vast majority of all sales in Germany, denial of certification was a grievous blow to the subsidiary. The subsidiary's management knew that the road to economic salvation meant submitting to government demands, even if that meant lying to or limiting contact with the Dearborn head office.

The company's managers at Cologne also feared for their own individual jobs -- feared that they would be replaced by political appointees. So Cologne's management attempted to assuage the Nazis' concerns about their and the company's loyalties in at least three ways. First, they introduced a racial criterion for the hiring of management staff. Foreign and Jewish members of the subsidiary's management board were removed, despite, interestingly, the strenuous opposition of Henry Ford. The first time that a Jewish manager was fired (in 1936), Ford himself was successfully able to reverse the decision. Subsequently, however (certainly by 1940), control of the subsidiary effectively shifted to Cologne, and Ford was unable to thwart further dismissals.

Second, the Nazi government, before the war, wanted to increase the import of raw materials that were in short supply. It also limited Ford's access to the raw materials it did have (generally, rubber). The company attempted to appease the Nazi regime and relieve its own shortages by importing as much scarce raw material as possible.

Finally, the Nazi government desperately needed foreign currency to fund the purchase of raw materials. Ford in Germany responded by attempting to maximize the export of its finished products -- negotiating with U.S. and U.K. Ford in order to secure profitable export markets. The company's German managers hoped that a favorable outcome for these ventures would mean that the German government would look upon their business more positively and that success would save their jobs.

All of these efforts failed to prevent the government from appointing executives at Ford in Germany who were more attuned and indebted to the Nazi Party than loyal to the company. A few members of management did retain their positions through the period spanning the Weimar Republic, the early Nazi period, and the war. But the power within the company clearly shifted from pre-Nazi or non-Nazi managers to government-sponsored managers, most pointedly Robert Schmidt, who was selected and appointed by the Nazi government. (Because, I believe, Fordwerke's senior management did not contest Schmidt's appointment, the company was officially allowed to remain under nominal American ownership.)

Who was in charge of Fordwerke when it used slave labor (it is now generally accepted that this occurred between 1941 and 1945)? By the time that slave labor was introduced, Fordwerke was clearly under the direct control of the Nazi government, though administered through the company headquarters in Cologne (albeit by Robert Schmidt). The meetings of the board of directors had already been suspended, and didn't resume until after the war. Although the American parent company desperately sought to retain control of their German assets, they failed to do so. Fordwerke became an instrument of the Nazi state. I certainly found no evidence that American management ever sanctioned the use of slave labor or that it even knew of the use of slave labor.

source:  http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/ford.html

droffle


"I regard Henry Ford as my inspiration" - Hitler

26.09.2007 23:03

Henry Ford inspired Hitlers anti-semitism to the point where Hitler copied his work for Mein Kampf, awarded him Germanys highest honour and kept a portrait of Ford next to his desk. He called Ford his inspiration. Ford bankrolled Hitler in 1922 when he was a nobody and kept his portrait on his wall, giving Hitler 35,000 Reichsmarks in honor of his 50th birthday in April 1939. And yet you dare defend him.

I haven't proved Ford made tanks for the Nazis ? I didn't think I'd be called on such an obvious truth -any idiot can google "Ford+tanks+Nazis".

"The two largest tank producers in Hitler's Germany were Opel, a wholly owned subsidiary of General Motors (controlled by the J.P. Morgan firm), and the Ford A. G. subsidiary of the Ford Motor Company of Detroit." - Gabriel Kolko


"During the war, the car companies established a reputation for themselves as "the arsenal of democracy" by transforming their production lines to make airplanes, tanks and trucks for the armies that defeated Adolf Hitler. They deny that their huge business interests in Nazi Germany led them, wittingly or unwittingly, to also become "the arsenal of fascism."

The Ford Motor Co. has mobilized dozens of historians, lawyers and researchers to fight a civil case brought by lawyers in Washington and New York who specialize in extracting large cash settlements from banks and insurance companies accused of defrauding Holocaust victims. Also, a book scheduled for publication next year will accuse General Motors Corp. of playing a key role in Hitler's invasions of Poland and the Soviet Union.

"General Motors was far more important to the Nazi war machine than Switzerland," said Bradford Snell, who has spent two decades researching a history of the world's largest automaker. "Switzerland was just a repository of looted funds. GM was an integral part of the German war effort. The Nazis could have invaded Poland and Russia without Switzerland. They could not have done so without GM."

Both General Motors and Ford insist that they bear little or no responsibility for the operations of their German subsidiaries, which controlled 70 percent of the German car market at the outbreak of war in 1939 and rapidly retooled themselves to become suppliers of war materiel to the German army.

But documents discovered in German and American archives show a much more complicated picture. In certain instances, American managers of both GM and Ford went along with the conversion of their German plants to military production at a time when U.S. government documents show they were still resisting calls by the Roosevelt administration to step up military production in their plants at home...

When the U.S. Army liberated the Ford plants in Cologne and Berlin, they found destitute foreign workers confined behind barbed wire and company documents extolling the "genius of the Fuehrer," according to reports filed by soldiers at the scene. A U.S. Army report by investigator Henry Schneider dated Sept. 5, 1945, accused the German branch of Ford of serving as "an arsenal of Nazism, at least for military vehicles" with the "consent" of the parent company in Dearborn.

Ford spokesman Spellich described the Schneider report as "a mischaracterization" of the activities of the American parent company and noted that Dearborn managers had frequently been kept in the dark by their German subordinates over events in Cologne.

The relationship of Ford and GM to the Nazi regime goes back to the 1920s and 1930s, when the American car companies competed against each other for access to the lucrative German market. Hitler was an admirer of American mass production techniques and an avid reader of the antisemitic tracts penned by Henry Ford. "I regard Henry Ford as my inspiration," Hitler told a Detroit News reporter two years before becoming the German chancellor in 1933, explaining why he kept a life-size portrait of the American automaker next to his desk. " - Washington Post

Danny


Got a source for that?

26.09.2007 23:11

'Hitler was so inspired by Fords virulent hatred for Jews that he plagiarised large parts of it when he wrote Mein Kampf.'

A reliable source, that is.

Or just another of your inventions?

droffling along


Just like the 30's

26.09.2007 23:26

I think it is telling that there is someone on Indymedia who is prepared, 24 hours a day, to defend fascist US capitalists and other genocidal dictators. I think that is the most important point I can make at this time. IM doesn't only have right wing trolls - those trolls are bankrolled. Some admins have similarly suspect right-wing militaristic views. Like any activist group, IM is the subject of intense USuk infiltration and disinformation just now. It's just like the 30's. It is not just a matter of where the next war is going to be launched, it is a matter of how our society is accelerating to outright fascism. Of course today you have to substitute the word Jew for the word Muslim.


'Hitler was so inspired by Fords virulent hatred for Jews that he plagiarised large parts of it when he wrote Mein Kampf.'


"Later he was to describe his spell in prison as a "free education at the state's expense." One writer who influenced Hitler while in prison was Henry Ford, the American car-manufacturer. Hitler read Ford's autobiography, My Life and Work, and a book of his called The International Jew. In the latter Ford claimed that there was a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world. Hitler also approved of Ford's hostile views towards communism and trade unions."

I have already published other sources that state what I claimed, and yet presumably they aren't reliable in your view. So rather than publish other peoples opinions, anyone here can compare Mein Kampf with the text that inspired it - as claimed by Hitler himself.



 http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200601.txt
 http://www.jrbooksonline.com/Intl_Jew_full_version/ijtoc_.htm

These are Fords Chapter titles for anyone too squeamish to read the actual vitriol he wrote:

v. 1 — THE INTERNATIONAL JEW [ Preface ]
1

The Jew in Character and Business
2

Germany’s Reaction Against the Jew
3

Jewish History in the United States
4

The Jewish Question—Fact or Fancy?
5

Anti-Semitism—Will It Appear in the U.S.?
6

Jewish Question Breaks Into the Magazines
7

Arthur Brisbane Leaps to the Help of Jewry
8

Does a Definite Jewish World Program Exist?
9

The Historic Basis of Jewish Imperialism
10

An Introduction to the “Jewish Protocols”
11

“Jewish” Estimate of Gentile Human Nature
12

“Jewish Protocols” Claim Partial Fulfillment
13

“Jewish” Plan to Split Society by “Ideas”
14

Did the Jews Foresee the World War?
15

Is the Jewish “Kahal” the Modern “Soviet”?
16

How the “Jewish Question” Touches the Farm
17

Does Jewish Power Control the World Press?
18

Does This Explain Jewish Political Power?
19

The All-Jewish Mark on “Red Russia”
20

Jewish Testimony in Favor of Bolshevism


v. 2 — JEWISH ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES [ Preface ]
21

How Jews in the U.S. Conceal Their Strength
22

Jewish Testimony on “Are Jews a Nation?”
23

Jew Versus Non-Jew in New York Finance
24

The High and Low of Jewish Money Power
25

“Disraeli of America”—A Jew of Super-Power
26

The Scope of Jewish Dictatorship in the U.S.
27

Jewish Copper Kings Reap Rich War-Profits
28

Jewish Control of the American Theater
29

The Rise of the First Jewish Theatrical Trust
30

How Jews Capitalized a Protest Against Jews
31

The Jewish Aspect of the “Movie” Problem
32

Jewish Supremacy in Motion Picture World
33

Rule of the Jewish Kehillah Grips New York
34

The Jewish Demand for “Rights” in America
35

“Jewish Rights” Clash With American Rights
36

“Jewish Rights” to Put Studies Out of Schools
37

Disraeli—British Premier, Portrays the Jews
38

Taft Once Tried to Resist Jews—and Failed
39

When Editors Were Independent of the Jews
40

Why the Jews Dislike the Morgenthau Report
41

Jews Use the Peace Conference to Bind Poland
42

The Present Status of the Jewish Question


v. 3 — JEWISH INFLUENCES IN AMERICAN LIFE [ Preface ]
43

The Jews and the “Religious Persecution” Cry
44

Are the Jews Victims or Persecutors?
45

Jewish Gamblers Corrupt American Baseball
46

Jewish Degradation of American Baseball
47

Jewish Jazz Becomes Our National Music
48

How the Jewish Song Trust Makes You Sing
49

Jewish Hot-Beds of Bolshevism in the U.S.
50

Jew Trades Link With World Revolutionaries
51

Will Jewish Zionism Bring Armageddon?
52

How the Jews Use Power—By an Eyewitness
53

How Jews Ruled and Ruined Tammany Hall
54

Jew Wires Direct Tammany’s Gentile Puppets
55

B’nai B’rith Leader Discusses the Jews
56

Dr. Levy, a Jew, Admits His People’s Error
57

Jewish Idea in American Monetary Affairs
58

Jewish Idea Molded Federal Reserve Plan
59

Jewish Idea of Central Bank for America
60

How Jewish International Finance Functions
61

Jewish Power and America’s Money Famine


v. 4 — ASPECTS OF JEWISH POWER IN THE UNITED STATES [ Preface ]
62

How Jews Gained American Liquor Control
63

Gigantic Jewish Liquor Trust and Its Career
64

The Jewish Element in Bootlegging Evil
65

Angles of Jewish Influence in American Life
66

The Jews’ Complaint Against “Americanism”
67

The Jewish Associates of Benedict Arnold
68

Benedict Arnold and Jewish Aid in Shady Deal
69

Arnold and His Jewish Aids at West Point
70

The Gentle Art of Changing Jewish Names
71

Jewish “Kol Nidre” and “Eli, Eli” Explained
72

Jews as New York Magistrates See Them
73

Jews Are Silent, the National Voice Is Heard
74

What Jews Attempted Where They Had Power
75

The Jewish Question in Current Testimony
76

America’s Jewish Enigma—Louis Marshall
77

The Economic Plans of International Jews
78

A Jew Sees His People As Others See Them
79

Candid Address to Jews on the Jewish Problem
80

An Address to “Gentiles” on the Jewish Problem


Danny


source?

26.09.2007 23:43

Yes, you've given us the text, but where is the evidence that Hitler 'plagiarised' it?

Well, you were wrong about IBM, and wrong about Ford's profits from Germany, and wrong about the tanks.

Certainly, you've proved that one industrialist was a nasty piece of work. But since when did one industrialist represent 100 years of a nation the size of America?

droffle!


More Ford

26.09.2007 23:57

Did Fordwerke materially benefit from its economic activities in Nazi Germany, particularly during the period when it employed slave laborers? Here, the arcane nature of old German accounting systems, the contestable methods by which destruction of property is calculated, and the means by which the losses of trade due to war are determined, all become vitally important.

I personally have found little evidence that Fordwerke made money during the war. The net-profit figures I have uncovered reveal that while modest profits were recorded during the first few years of the conflict, these were wiped out by enormous losses during the last three years. Fordwerke received compensation from the Nazi government for bombing damage in 1941. But a 1942 German law denied such recompense to businesses whose majority ownership was held by foreigners from hostile nations. In 1967, the Foreign Claims Settlement Commission of the U.S. Congress made a compensatory award to Ford for its German subsidiary's wartime losses after extended negotiation and deliberation. The gross figure was almost $1.1 million. This award for damages stands as important evidence of Ford's claim that it did not enjoy "unjust enrichment" in Germany during the war, and that it did not profit, even inadvertently, from the use of slave labor. Even if this figure is only approximately accurate, when coupled with the profit and loss figures I located, it appears that there were no Fordwerke "profits" to share with the victims of slave labor.

source  http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/ford.html

druufle


Goodnight, IM Nazi

27.09.2007 00:14

"Yes, you've given us the text, but where is the evidence that Hitler 'plagiarised' it?"

Us ? "My name is Legion; for we are many."

"Well, you were wrong about IBM, and wrong about Ford's profits from Germany, and wrong about the tanks."

No, no, and no. Simply stating something as true when it is obviously false to anyone who reads this thread and investigates for themselves is typical of Goebbels. PRopaganda - deny, distract, lie.

"Certainly, you've proved that one industrialist was a nasty piece of work. But since when did one industrialist represent 100 years of a nation the size of America?"

You are foretting the role Ford played in the US and the world in the past 100 years. You are forgetting he wasn't alone. You are forgetting about Prescott Bush buying the Whitehouse. You are ignoring that the US was founded on genocide and has been expanding it's genocides right up to and including the current genocide in Iraq.

You are an apologist for genocide - an apologist for fascism - an apologist for Nazism. You haven't won a single argument here, but unlike you I am a single person who has to sleep, so feel free to dig a bigger hole for the mass grave of your bosses victims.

Danny


Ford IBM and tanks

27.09.2007 08:07

The Jewish Virtual Library doesn't agree with you: 'little evidence that Fordwerke made money during the war'.

A Professor of Holocaust Studies doesn't agree witrh you about IBM:  http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/01_12/b3724036.htm

Can't find any mention of Ford here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tanks_in_World_War_II

drooffling along again


Liar

27.09.2007 09:22

"My Father, Grandfather and Uncle were put to work fabricating parts for Ford's panzer tank and 8.8 cm flack anti-aircraft guns." - Will Mooren

"The fact that Hollerith equipment manufactured by (IBM's German unit) Dehomag was used by the Nazi administration has long been known and is not new information," - IBM representative Carol Makovich

Not only did Ford profit from manufacturing Nazi equipment before the war, they also received compensation for the British bombing one of their plants.

"After the cessation of hostilities, GM and Ford demanded reparations from the U.S. Government for wartime damages sustained by their Axis facilities as a result of Allied bombing... Ford received a little less than $1 million, primarily as a result of damages sustained by its military truck complex at Cologne." - Committee of the Judiciary, Subcommittee on Antitrust and Monopoly, United States Senate

Danny


Your reading and comprehnesion skills are obviously a little lacking

27.09.2007 10:09

'But a 1942 German law denied such recompense to businesses whose majority ownership was held by foreigners from hostile nations. In 1967, the Foreign Claims Settlement Commission of the U.S. Congress made a compensatory award to Ford for its German subsidiary's wartime losses after extended negotiation and deliberation. The gross figure was almost $1.1 million. This award for damages stands as important evidence of Ford's claim that it did not enjoy "unjust enrichment" in Germany during the war, and that it did not profit, even inadvertently, from the use of slave labor.'

Jewish Virtual Library

Same source:

'But it remained an isolated and marginalized business, despite Hitler's personal admiration for the anti-Semitism of Henry Ford (1863-1947) and the mass production techniques Ford had made famous. Ford's foreign ownership meant that it lacked the "authenticity" and "credibility" of other businesses; furthermore, Ford lacked the size and, thus, the strategic importance of Opel, General Motors' German subsidiary. Ford was treated by the Nazi government as "the producer of last resort" when it came to the allocation of government contracts. Ford's very existence in Nazi Germany was constantly threatened by low sales to a nationalistic general public and by the fear that the government would confiscate its facilities.'

If you read that article, then you'll see that Fordwerke was not under the control of its American Headquarters in Dearborn, but run by Nazi appointees. Ford himself then had no say in what was produced at the factories.

droofle


Blackshirt, blackheart

27.09.2007 11:41

My reading skills are poor ? Ford received profits until 1942 according to your text. Tell me, when did the war start ? 1942 ? Ford were producing panzers, military aircraft and other munitions for the Nazis long before that. I am not saying Henry Ford directly approved of the 10,000 slave labourers who were enslaved at the German subsidiary. I am saying he inspired Hitler with his vitriolic books and newspaper texts against the Jews, helped fund Hitlers rise to power, had his portrait on his wall, sent him birthday presents each year, and equipped his armies for profit and carried on doing so until forced to stop by US law.

I am mistaken about any of that ? Do you really see nothing wrong with that ?

Ah, and the protocols - as explained by Henry Ford in Chapter 11 'An Introduction to the “Jewish Protocols”' and Chapter 13 '“Jewish Protocols” Claim Partial Fulfillment'. Yes, fascism is alive and well. It even has proponents so vile as to defend Henry Ford on Indymedia.

Danny


Independent view

27.09.2007 13:00

 http://beagle.u-bordeaux4.fr/ifrede/Ford/Pdf/Bonin%20WWII_1.pdf

It's by a Frenchman, and is quite detailed.

So, you think without Ford's support, the Second World War would not have begun?

Someone on Indymedia keeps on making my posts 'disappear', which makes debating a little difficult. They obviously don't like the idea that the Protocols haven't gone away.

So, Ford dies in 1947. Your next argument for fascism being alive and well?

droofle


What if's

27.09.2007 13:47

"It's by a Frenchman, and is quite detailed."
With due respect I'll read it later, I'm a bit busy.

"So, you think without Ford's support, the Second World War would not have begun?"
It's foolish to engage in hypotheticals. I agree with Bertrand Russell that the First World War gave rise to the conditions that made the Second almost inevitable. There is no doubt that Hitler was inspired by Fords hatred of Jews, and that made the Shoah inevitable once the war started. There is no doubt the Nazis received vital financial and political support from the 'business community' from 1922 to 1945 and that Ford epitomised that. Whether they would have risen without business support, and whether they would have been so genocidal without Fords theories is unknowable. It should be noted that over 300 US corporations dealt with the Nazis many of them as shamefully as Ford. Do you know about the business coup plot against Roosevelt ? Since I'll be reading your link later, we could save some time and space if you read these two excellent links as well since they disprove some of your assertions :
 http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/jphuck/BOOK3Ch2.html
 http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/02/04/p/05_killing.html

"Someone on Indymedia keeps on making my posts 'disappear', which makes debating a little difficult. They obviously don't like the idea that the Protocols haven't gone away."

I have seen all your posts, including the hidden ones. Since I consider some of your posts to be disreputable to you it obviously isn't to my advantage having any of them hidden, but there are posting guidelines and different volunteer admins with varying politics. I am fairly certain noone on IM-UK has been hidden as often as I have been so don't take it personally. We aren't meant to debate here at all, this is meant for activist news only, so I'm surprised more hasn't been hidden.

"So, Ford dies in 1947. Your next argument for fascism being alive and well?"
Hitler died in 1945 so I don't see your point. Marxism outlived Marx, Christianity outlived Jesus. Anyway, Edsel Ford was a fascist too.

Danny


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