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HALLOWEEN : "Ploughmens lunches". . . .or "church debates" to prevent progress?

xxxx . . . .a | 31.10.2007 15:40 | Anti-militarism | History | Other Press

People seem to attempt to whip up a debate - with new twists upon old misrepresentations - to distract the "churchy-types" - amongst others - as they seem to have got less "wishy-washy" about the sort of things that their various founders might have seen as "core principles". . . .(e.g. a certain UK archbishops recent straightforward pronouncements in relation to the Iraq war, saying fair trade isnt enough, etc) - but a touch of authenticity from actual "pasts" might have the opposite effect. . . .

When the "cold war" was raging, the interference into church pronouncements from various "covert ops" groups - state or commercial - was explained by reference to the potential "communist-bloc" fellow travellers smear. Despite the fact that what such people as Romero were saying was very much the gist of those "remember the poor" teachings, after his murder the western response was, shall we say, somewhat muted. As he said - "when I feed the poor, they call me a saint, but when I ask why they are hungry, they call me a communist". A key phrase from what was called "liberation theology" in South America was the phrase "bias to the poor" - last year, the pope - despite his reputation - was using that phrase again. Good thing too.
But the three "hot button" distraction themes allowed most prominence in the media recently - unfortunately picked up by a few spokespeople too - ignore these factors of peace or war, the stewardship of the world, the economy, etc - to focus around things that werent pronounced upon in the gospels at all - halloween, marriage, the time - in the womb - that we see a "person". When we watch TV to see kids starve slow, or die through lack of clean water, or get sold as slaves - if we havent questioned EVERYTHING about how we exist as a world, we have forgotten to see THEM as people. There isnt debate about what they go through - it is what OUR kids might go through in their situation. That misrepresentation of what was said to the women putting the ointment over somebody who was going to go through a key weekend in a campaign - that "the poor are always there" ( then the way a few people twist it to pretend that was excuse to shrug ) - was a snappy putdown to somebody saying "why spend the cash on leaflets for the campaign against poverty or a cover for the stall when you could buy that tramp a doughnut". The interesting thing of these times is that all types of spiritual traditions are - in little steps - crossing back to the full on campaigning attitude that their founders or "crucial people" might recognise, from the tokenistic "charity" approach of cold war or perceived dependence upon donations from aristocrats, industrial barons, etc, or the tolerations of warlordkings.
(Perhaps the fourth "attack the churches" factor is allowed such prominence for these reasons too. Secularism - or Atheism - ISNT always "society with the ethics washed out" - but to some it is seen as a tool of those that might prefer society that way. The good traveller from samaria that stopped to look after the wounds of the mugged - to update the tale - wasnt of the same spiritual tradition as the audience for the tale, was perhaps atheistic, in fact, but the inclusion of that tale in the gospels shows THAT churches "fundamentalist" attitudes - to hear certain people talk these days is almost to hear all churchgoers etc get damned by media columnists to excommunication! Or - perhaps worse - partial communication - as if people are turning the mic up when they are sorting out the peripheral details but off when they commence the actual speech. Good to have pressure from society on certain things, of course, but all too often the "debate" is framed with almost deliberately inadequate information that seems to try to present people to each other in their worst possible light - or to blind people to the straightforward reminders of the past that all too often puts ACTUAL fundamentalism in its original "bias to progress" - or reveals the odd hundred years or so of cul-de-sac or detour! Women priests - see the addresses of pauls letters - often the local "pastors" of these early communities-under-the-empire were women, in fact as late as the 700s, when there was a twinning of mens/womens communities the person in charge was often the abbess, as it happens. The churches involvement in marriage, except for the celebration after, is quite recent - a couple of hundred years or so - but if Paul had had the bigotry of the person that inserted words into his texts in such a clunky way afterwards, his preaching in Greece might have mentioned it, you'd have thought.
The "ploughmens lunches" bought as the Traditional Dish in pubs are as old as 960 AD. Wait a minute, I shall type that again. The "ploughmens lunches" sold in pubs were thought up in the 1960s to sell loads of cheese. As traps go, its easy to fall into.
The Halloween holiday is about the night that leads up to the day of "all hallows" . . . . in gaelic "end of summer" - yes, a very old "do", but marking the same sort of time of year that they mark in America with turkey. Harvests in, stocks of food for the winter put by, night sooner, turn of the year, time to light the lamps - lets have a bonfire, barbecue, etc, get all the neighbours around, remember all the people we miss, do a bit of celebrating of them . . . . unlike the Emperors attempts to play people off against each other by shifting the single day-a-week of "sabbath" from saturday to sunday, or screwing about the date of easter, the shifting of the equivalents in their calendar by two different popes, later, was to REalign them with other spiritual traditions, more in the way the good attitudes recognise each other across "boundaries" these days, in local ways most often, but also across the world. Happy halloween, happy "all saints", happy all souls, happy duvali, happy bonfire night, happy ALL HALLOWS time of year.
(typically, the gaels extended the celebration for weeks - so that "samhain" is this entire bit of the year. . . . a good practise often picked up by others. . . . good thing too)
XXXX

xxxx . . . .a

Comments

Hide the following 4 comments

cheers,ps ++++

01.11.2007 12:25

. . . (+ me too!) yes! all good info - but worth putting extra info in later, if you get the time too
eg ALL HALLOWS ! whats that all about then ?
intro: days of the "dead", too, as much as "ends of summer", opening new celebrations (ETC) for all (putting the Xmas lights on , sort-of-things) "lighting of the lamps".
It seems SO logical when you put it that way, I think I might miss out if I forget to get involved too!
MORE GOOD STUFF PLEASE,"42"s
. . . . intro!

remember, remember. . . . mmmm!


allo allo hallo hallo!

01.11.2007 13:11

disciples, jews, druids etc as "free french" under those crazy pathological slaver-nazi mobster types from Rome - sounds more real . . . . a bit different from loads of people doing irritating perpetual "happy happy" shining faces or playing "how low do you bow" competitions. MUCH more "as'y'might".
Discover from accidental gospel peruse that a few disciples were set free by a "mob" a few days later.
What was "R.E" all about?
Didnt mention
THAT SORT OF THING
much!
Perhaps thats why people tried such a lot to get the "Word" into print - in THEIR language - for ALL the people.
Ah, but, when it says "in my fathers palace there are loads of rooms" is that a reference to the "loads of different spiritual traditions, loads of different "ways in" ( you-take-the-high-road, I-take-the-low-road" - some people work "with" the occupation/empire - (post313ish) - some "fallback" to the mountains, essenes(S), druids/briega(N), or "desert fathers(etc)"around the coast of africa then up to iberia, to regroup, bounceback or travel further later???? . . . . OR A TYPICAL BOURGEOIS REFERENCE TO A POSH HOUSE IN A TIME MOST PEOPLE HAD TO EXIST IN MUD HUTS OR HOLES IN THE. . . . etc etc etc etc.
But also - is there a caff?
love it
food for thought too!

(ps ? "fathers": utter patriarchal sh. . . . or one of those mis-interpretations of the language plurals, or a reference to "fathers fathers, could of said "mothers mothers" or both - meaning "all of our past relations, predecessors, people that sat around here AGES ago, sort of thing . . . . hmmmmm.
. . . . so, seeing spiritual traditions as a sort of "ethics of the peoples, social agreement of past, present, future peoples, etc. . . . )

hmmmm.
That sort of way of seeing spiritual traditions mightnt totally sway the "ni maitre, ni dieu!" brigade entirely - ( if you thought atheists were sceptical . . . !) - but might mean "priest" types dont get shot by them either, in future. Might actually see they have a lot of things they have to work with each other about too - keeping up the discussions as they do
That aint bad.
for intros.
So why are SOME of those reverends from africa,(or different bits of the world, here too!) etc so LOADED, flash cars, free phones from dodgy "homophobia-obsessed"campaigning groups, etc ????
QUITE

. . . . that sort of thing. mmmm

a bunch of people waking up after thingummyjigs, celebrations - all that. m


second sight?

02.11.2007 14:56

. . . . see todays column in "grauniad", or this weeks economist - the picked photos or the subtitles alone seem to say "drain-the-community-ethics-out-of-the-spiritual-traditions,(get people isolated in their own confused pick'n'mix, de-emphasize coherence, emphasize-obsessional-seeming-unjust-bigotry, seperate-it-from-society,THEN play-them-all-off-against-each-other)
These "Golden-cow-frauds" are more of a problem these days, it seems.
NEXT I expect to hear of a "new interpretation" of a non-stick gospel that tries to pretend the "overturning of the gay lib stall in the temple" was actually about trying to broaden a boycott of the slaver-occupation currency ("render unto. . . ." etc ) in favour of the local ethically modulated (local jewish) currency that they had preserved by a refusal to accept the coinage from Rome in the customary spiritual traditions. Of course, in "Occupied Europe", circa 30ad, peoples werent allowed to talk politics, but could keep all their own religions, as long as they ( went through the motions of) accepting the Emp eror was sacred, had a very nice toga, etc.
Jews, "Dr uids", Britons, Celts, amongst others, were uppity types.
They probably did support each other.
"Trade" meant they met, legions often used people from the opposite bits of europe against each other. This didnt always work. Sometimes entire legions "disappeared", leaving only the boss with the "war-poet" to think of a heroic way of explaining . . . .
. . . . sometimes this meant the old "we meant that to happen" scam : the "reconnoitre expedition" to test the Britons, the total subjugation of the British Isles-up-to-the-wall, etc.

It is, in fact, quite possible that Briton/Celtic types were in israel/palestine to watch or support the several 1st century risings there, in quiet ways.
Those "irish" pubs seem to turn up all over the world, after all.
(Historical by-the-way : ships from the ore extraction sites up here were where some of the materials for a couple of the operations run by the puppet rulers from the eastern end of the empire - in fact - those "in charge" of israel/palestine at the time, so . . . . perhaps. . . ! See ing as it was to avoid paying for minerals or metals AT ALL that the dodgy cheap legionary types were trying to "reconnoitre" up here, they might have seen mutual support as utter sense.)

****


as a grumpy "druid/briega" type might add. . . .

03.11.2007 13:38

of course, the irritating thing was that despite the classical pretensions, these slaver mobster thug types depended on the idiotic ploy of dragging their farmers away from the harvest to attack other peoples when they were putting theirs into the storerooms, to steal it without paying for it, (oh VERY progress, VERY "birth of civilisation") take a bunch of people away as slaves to use against other people, doing a bit of laying waste as they left, shrinking the worlds GDP by loads, then getting back to Rome, with a bunch of lying warpoets saying they'd had to attack these people, they were a threat to our entire way of life, then usurping the system of elected magistrates the place was famous for, disrupting the peace treaties with its neighbour city-states where its prosperity had ACTUALLY come from, then instituting a series of paranoiac, dodgy dictators - WHO TRIED TO GET THE ENTIRE F****** WORLD TO WORSHIP THEM AS G O D S (!!!!) most of whom came to power by poisoning each other, with assorted treacheries, then semi-subduing a once sensible the population with the "colliseum" system of the torture of a few people "scarecrows" to death slowly in stupid games, with the pretence that that could happen to all the rest at the same time . . . . asterix was so accurate, it seems it WAS the lead in the "luxury" hot water pipes - the mercury etc in the cosmetics, etc - they actually WERE utterly barking mad. "Crazy" was the understatement of the century.

Is there a lesson there for us all . . . . mmmm.

So, of course, the options were to go bonkers too, or to get out of the way for a bit, to put crops where they couldnt get to them so easy, then to see what we could do to sort out this bull in the worlds china shop, as the ambassador put it.
The jews had a superb attitude, it seemed, with a "plausibly denied" go-group of uppity types who had also tried to involve the citizens of Rome, post-Ceasarea, to the extent that at least one or two of the sertious bruisers from the secret police had swapped over.
We were all strengthened by the fact that they had also come across a way to use the "all politics verboten, but you get to keep your spiritual traditions" (ISH) rule, seeing as loads of their "texts" were, in actual fact, historical, when they had had to break free of those sort of slaving sh**s TWICE in the past, QUITE possible to do "NUDGE_NUDGE _ WINK_WINK" mutual plotting, as the diaspora of people with the usual jewish education priest-type literacy, plus jewish community centres across the world almost came up to the semi-mythical distribution of Irish bars.

Listen very carefully, i shall say this only religiously.

(moves toe across dirt on the ground to describe the famous "rugby ball / half-a-circle / aquatic symbol) . . . .
cheers more later

bounceback- despite push-button fakes need to perpetuate old misinterpretations


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