Dear Indymedia,

Why have you hidden my posts on Indymedia UK about certain actions
around Bristol and the South West? Bristol Indymedia has not hidden
the same post and there has been an interesting and important debate
as a result.

This issues matter nationally as well.

Can you please explain why you have hidden my posts on this subject?

Your action seems to go against everything (I thought) Indymedia was for and is about.

You have hidden my post on this important subject ... yet you have kept up posts
on Indymedia UK about all kinds of trivial subjects.

Can you please explain your action?

regards

'Prof. Help'
...............................................................................................................

 http://www.bristol.indymedia.org/newswire.php?story_id=27000

Climate Camp & Violence
by Professor Help Thursday, Nov 1 2007, 3:30pm
bristol / the environment / opinion/analysis


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These are insane acts. Those responsible should be excluded permanently.
Climate Camp needs to condemn and distance itself from these acts of
violence by Bristol based 'activists'. Silence on this issue is
support for violence. These dangerous people should be excluded from
our movement ASAP. Violence is unacceptable. The National Climate Camp
Gathering in Oxford should condemn these acts and exclude those
responsible.


 http://www.bristol.indymedia.org/newswire.php?story_id=26739&search_text=Pipe

 http://earthfirst.org.uk/actionreports/node/5050

add your comments

COMMENTS

this is clearly not violence...
by just in case your not insane Thursday, Nov 1 2007, 4:40pm
 danlike@yahoo.co.uk
....this is justified criminal damage


Damage Against Property is Not Violence
by Concerned Citizen Thursday, Nov 1 2007, 9:39pm
 concerned@bristol.gov.uk
Damage against people IS......... this pipeline endangers people
living alongside it, and globally because of the effects on our
climate.

Damage to the equipment only costs money. The pipeline itself will cost lives.

Who are the actual violent ones?

Common sense
by clive hammond Friday, Nov 2 2007, 8:53am

Good to see that the total idiots that do such damage are not welcome
by the majority.

You cannot ignore these dangerous individuals - because their actions
portray you in a very bad light and turn the average person against
you.

It is muppets like these that make the spread of CCTV cameras
\\\"acceptable\\\".

And I for one hope they are already on camera and now just wait for
that knock on the door.


whats wrong with violence?
by (A) Sab x Friday, Nov 2 2007, 9:00am

This was obviously not a violent act, and well done to those who did
it, but whats your problem with violence anyway? I know pacifists like
to hold up ghandi and M L King as examples of successful non-violent
reistance, but the simple fact is that they would have failed without
violent elements. They were both great men representing noble causes,
but so were the armed guerillas in both india and the american south
that provided a vital element to the struggle. Im not saying that
violence is always the way, its not - but nor is non-violence. We need
to be more tolerant of eachothers views and levels of violence to be a
sucsessful movement.


Vilence!
by Rick Saturday, Nov 3 2007, 9:14pm

(A) Sab - Yes, it\'s so true: violence works really well and isn\'t at
all stupid, macho or oppressive.

Take for example the vast success story that is modern day Iraq,
entirely due to violence. And who can forget the ultra-violent and
therefore ultra-successful attempts at creating peace through violence
elsewhere in the Middle East? Why, the Middle east is now a paradise
thanks to violence.

I also agree that we need to be more tolerant to people with different
views and levels of violence. This is why we must do more to tolerate
Nazis, child molesters, and terrorists as well as pipeline and rail
sabotuers, who never ever put real people at risk, only ecocidal PIGS
who work for the MAN!

In fact, \"we\" should even tolerate people who are completely opposed
to everything we stand for! Now THAT is tolerance!!

PS. It\'s a good thing you\'re like, totally savvy about the internets
and do everything to hide your tracks from the PIGS - and only
discreetly boast and brag about what a manly and not at all sad,
inadequate gimp you are.

violence?
by name dont matter Sunday, Nov 4 2007, 12:17am

violence is the lowest form of communication, and humans can do better
than violence, cant we?


ridiculous conflation
by blurb Sunday, Nov 4 2007, 10:44am

There is no such thing as violence against property.

What are you saying that a JCB has feelings? Is equal to a human? Can
stand up in court and identify the perpetrator? Can be traumatised?

If it\'s attacks on someone\'s home, where they live and shelter, or
attacks upon the individuals themselves, that\'s another matter, but
attacking an inanimate object owned by no-one expect another inanimate
corporate entity, then this is not violence, it is simply criminal
damage.

How sad to see people so infected by the capitalist language of
property, that violence can be considered to have been inflicted on an
inanimate object.

Ridiculous beyond comparison.


These reckless actions risked innocent lives
by Prof. Help Sunday, Nov 4 2007, 12:10pm

If you look at the actions on the Brecon Pipeline and the 4x4s ...
they both endanger innocent human life: eg: a sabotaged construction
crane could have caused an accident to a construction worker on the
LNG project. An un-noticed, partly deflated tyre on a 4x4 could have
caused a multiple pile up on the M4 in the morning rush hour (in a
subsequent blow out). Both these acts of sabotage could have cost
innocent lives.

Lives would have been lost and people seriously injured as a direct
consequence of these actions. It is only by good fortune that innocent
lives were not lost. In both these actions, innocent human life has
been endangered by people associated with Rising Tide (the Earth First
report) and Climate Camp ( the Brecon Pipe sabotage happened at the
same time as the Heathrow
Climate Camp).

People writing in support of these actions in this thread are being
either naive or disingenuous when they classify these actions as
merely breaking the law or actions against capitalist property. They
were much more than that and these Bristol activists have made a
stupid and reckless move in the name of Environmental NVDA and by
association .... Climate Camp and the Rising Tide network.

If Climate Camp is to become a terrorist organisation .... then I
think this radical move needs to be debated in open forum and those
who do not favour violent tactics should be able to distance
themselves from these idiots.

What have these stupid actions achieved? What have they changed?

Nothing!

They have just proved how politically impotent the people who did them
are and how ineffective these people have been in mobilizing mass
support for action on Global Warming and Social Justice.

Shame on the people who did these stupid and reckless acts. These
activists should be permanently excluded from the Environmental
Movement .. ie: from Climate Camp.

Now is not the time to loose the moral high ground in this debate. I
honestly believe it is all we have got ..... and if we give it up
...in reckless and immature sabotage tactics ... then we risk loosing
everything.

Peace and Love to all.