Oh yeah - that'll do it: the USA will see lit candles in Oxford from their spy satellites and think "omigod!! The candles! The candles! We can't attack Iran now!!"

Get a grip - the only thing that will derail this war machine is to create our own war machine, that does not have war as its purpose, but seeks to continually undermine and undo the centralised state's claim to violence as its own preserve.

Candle power - not a chance ... unless that's what you're going to light after an EMP bomb has disrupted all other forms of electric current first. Now there's an idea!!!

Thomas,

I find your comment rather childish. You know quite well this is a symbolic action. Of course a candlelit vigil probably won't change anything but people are making a statement about what they feel. And the statement is aimed at the local population and politicians not the White House. Of course it wont change anything but at least people are gettting involved.. Yes there are other ways of initaiting action but on a cold Novemer evening this is probably as good as it gets! Rather than make silly sarcastic childish comments ( which say more about you than anything else) perhaps you should get involved, go to meetings, present sugestions, etc etc. rather than just critisise


Jenny

Well said Jenny

Matt

So you are going into this in the full knowledge that this probably won't change anything, but is a statement about how people +feel+. Well, that's alright then: a bunch of reasonably privileged people reasonably safe in Britain (Oxford no less) gathered together to light candles in "solidarity" to let the people of Oxford know how they feel about a war against Iran.

And this is the best the peace movement can come up with? Really Jenny (& Matt), this is pathetic - this is already a sign of resignation and defeat. The people of Iran, if they ever hear of this, will be grateful for all of the suffering you will undergo (it being a cold, wet November night, and all) and will be especially touched by the sacrifice made by anyone who burns their hands on the molten candle wax. No doubt they will think of this should the US begin raining bombs upon their heads.

These symbolic actions have their place - might even be useful - but this is usually as part of a larger, more thought through strategy. Instead, we have a symbolic action that won't change anything, and that's the end of the story ... we've done our bit, let's go home now and have a nice cuppa because we have let people of Oxford know how we feel. This is pathetic and inane. No wonder the "peace" movement isn't taken seriously any more. This is nice and safe and pedestrian ... and won't change anything, won't do anything except to assuage the consciences of a couple of hundred privileged people. It is the equivalent of the great consumer green wash for the peace movement. Won't change anything, but damn, it's good to offload some guilt!

Having read your comments (and also a similar "what will this achieve" comment that someone has made about the Burma march), I sort of agree with you all. Personally, I think we all know that the vigil will not stop the bombing or any of the suffering Iran will face. I do think it has certain advantages beyond just expressing how people feel... it will help keep the issue in the public concsiousness, locally at least, and who knows, some people there may be inspired to take part in more direct actions. Also, for many people (indeed most, as they will have beenon an the right mailing lists to have heard about it in the first place) this is NOT all that they are doing.... I will be attending with a woman who is facing a possible prison sentence for her involvement in peace actions, and have been involved in more direct things myself as well.

But I agree, in the face of another war, candle lit vigils ARE NOT ENOUGH, no matter how cold it may be. Worse, it could result in people thinking they have "done their bit" and so going away feeling comforted, even smug, and having achieved nothing. It is easy for these things to slip from an expression of anger and grief (and hope!) into a grandiose means of appeasing our guilt and apathy.

On every action and protest I have been on for years, lobbying, petitions, marches, direct actions, whatever the issue from peace to the environment, I have always thought, "this is not enough.... this will not change anything.... what are my motives?" and I'm SICK of that. I believe change is possible, always, but I am lost as to HOW. a coupla million marching through the streets didnt have the slightest effect on the decision to go into Iraq. A friend of mine disarming a bomber did not effect the course of the war. the shift in public opinion, when it finally started, was largely ignored. I really would welcome some discussion on precisely what WOULD change something... anything. Cos I cant bloody well work it out.

I share a house with two people from Iran. I abhor the thought of violence against their country, or anyone. I have been trying to find some action on this issue, and to date, this vigil is all I have found.... and, whilst the vigil itself is fine, that is a shameful situation in a city such as this... and I include myslef in that.

So yeah, I'm going on the vigil. Maybe I'll spend the time mulling over the above questions and let it change ME instead. and maybe it can be an opportunity to inspre something more, because THERE MUST BE MORE! Whilst I think it wont change much, I know that not going will change even less.