It reminds me of the time when Earth First met near Ripon – a guy, a “stranger,” had a “hypo manic” episode (clinical term) on site so lots of people told him to “f*** off!” You know, people waiting for food, the toilet, water, in the bar, the gig. After about 24 hrs of being told to “f*** off” by several hundred people (or otherwise certainly not defended – I didn’t stand up for him, either, to my shame) said individual disappeared, in the middle of the countryside, and that was that. Does anyone know what happened to him, by the way?

Oh, so that’s how we treat people who fulfil that particular bracket of state oppression called, “Mental Health.” That was what, three, four years ago. It changed my attitude, I can tell you!

Each time you think, or hope, that the “movement” has moved on, matured, grown, and each time you realise that a movement which does not allow critical reflection of itself cannot mature or grow - that's not to say that individuals haven't, but there's a lot of silent endorsement seems to happen around here). If it does not make mistakes, or it does not recognise its mistakes, then it cannot learn from its mistakes.

“Leeds Indymedia intends to help break down barriers between activists and people who would not generally see themselves in that light”

That’s from the mission statement, resonant of, I believe, some of the conclusions which were reached as a result of the debate between inclusiveness and exclusivity. Well, you would hope so, wouldn’t you?

“To many academic liberal tosspots around recently, by the way, I reckon they should be a bloody target too!” Steven (sic)

“is obviously what you`d label me just because I beleive in the ideal of free speech. As I have said so often on this site,I do not beleive in what these people have to say,which includes all types of fascist,whether they be Nation of Islam,BNP,ect,ect.In my opinion a society without debate is in danger of becoming a dictatorship. Surely it is through debate and an understanding of where peoples point of view,however distorted,comes from. Steven,are you not as small minded as these people? Academia,knowledge is power,not violence” Winston Smith (sic)

“I imagine, being white and almost certainly middle-class, you're not too worried about being spat at in the street Mr Smith,” AntiNazi (sic)

“Evil only flourishes because good people choose to do nothing about it, and liberals like yourself were complicit in the rise of Hitler, and the subsequent murder of Millions of people, including thousands of Romany Gypsys.” AntiNazi (sic)

“BNP Stormfront writers liken people of Britain to sheep, the majority of us aren't, this anarchist hopes the majority vote tactically to stop the BNP,spoil ballots or vote green party tactically if possible.
Anarchism as originated by Proudhon is "true democratic governance by & for the people".Lets use ballots as well as action to help us get there & if necessary lets use bullets to defend true democracy.” Anarcho Syndicalist (sic)

“"In Brinsley, Nottinghamshire recently a Sri Lankan family was cleansed from the area by thugs throwing bricks through the families windows. They happened to live next door to Brinsleys BNP councillor Sadie Graham"

Obviously these poor people were not 'friends and associates' of Winston Smith above, otherwise they'd have just ignored the attack or invited their attackers in for a chat! What utter bollocks you talk 'Smith'. THIS is the reality of the BNP.” Old AFA (sic)

 https://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/leedsbradford/2007/12/386901.html

That’s from an exchange which took place 02,12,07. Is that breaking “down barriers between activists and people who would not generally see themselves in that light”

Do words require writing to describe what is going on here? Is that OK? Is that building bridges? Can you see Winston Smith or his renamed “friend” “Chalky” feeling any commonality with Old AFA or Steven or Anti Nazi? I know what I felt on reading it – here is oppression, here, on Indymedia, the suppression of argument, the discounting of views. And they’re hardly radical or offensive views, are they? Or maybe they are.

“Leeds Indymedia provides a forum for all those in Leeds and West Yorkshire who are struggling for another world, one without exploitation, oppression, domination, militarism and environmental destruction.”

Well, here we are, again, the words of the Mission Statement speak for themselves. And so it was that I made the mistake of disagreeing with, I’m guessing, the same crew that dispatched Winston and friends so effectively (and meanly, in my opinion.)

“Judging from the fact you seem to post on every single thread on Indymedia UK, I doubt you've seen the streets in a long time!” Banjo Thefascists

“I work with homeless people.” Pancho Brigantes

“Are the homeless as bored of your self-righteous, condescending pontificating as the rest of us Pancho? I bet they groan when they see you coming with your soup and your concerned looking face.” F.C.E.

“And I reckon I've seen that 'I make my living off the homeless and I'll use them as a prop to try and pretend I've got an ounce of credibility' schtick before.” Jog On

“Yeah, I'd use the state to ban the BNP, it's the only state we've got” Pancho Brigantes

“Is that some sort of Forrest Gumpism?!” Black N Red

“Forest Gump about sums you up Pancho! You may post a lot on here, but you don't half talk some drivel! "Stupid is as stupid does"!!” Ollie

“Like Forrest Gump? You would do Pancho. If there was even half a chance you might actually get off your arse and help us do something about the BNP you just might be worth talking to, but you're just a sneering, patronising fool, whose seen very little, but wants to lecture everyone else.” Jog On

“I think a lot of people reading this thread would feel patronised by the style of your posts 'Pancho Brigantes', though when one examines them more closely they contain more bullshit than substance. Bearing in mind the bullshit you are writing 'Pancho', I'd say that your obsession with excrement was appropriate.” Antifascist

“F*** Off you egomaniac nutter… You’ve gotten off lightly!” F.C.E.

 https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/leedsbradford/2008/03/393779.html?c=on#c191654

Maybe that’s acceptable. Maybe, reading between the lines, there is actually a dialogue/ discourse/ debate/ discussion taking place here, but I couldn’t find it. What an awful position to find yourself in! Do you try to justify yourself? When you’re actively trying to avoid conflict, when that is the nature of your argument in the first place? I felt like it must’ve felt for Winston Smith and his friends – like you’ve been surrounded in a dark alleyway and are on the receiving end of a good kicking! In my defence, and with some success, I did try to joke my way out of it.

So, then you write a riposte, an article, you’ve just had a “good kicking,” so you’re really feeling it, and you target what you believe to be these mob tactics (Rule of Mob – link below – probably this piece is crass, but I had a flu fever and was a little upset), you post it, and it disappears. Not just hidden, but off the Newswire altogether, into oblivion. Then you back track and realise that perhaps the most openly offensive comment – the last one you see above (underlined) – has also “disappeared.” Whitewash? Whitehouse? What?

 https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/leedsbradford/2008/03/394305.html

Selfishly I derive too much inspiration from other people’s commitment and intelligence as witnessed all over Indymedia to give up on what is clearly a remarkable and worth while tool for those “who are struggling for another world, one without exploitation, oppression, domination, militarism and environmental destruction.” I am motivated particularly by "everyday local issues like racism, education cuts, unemployment, landlordism, lack of social housing, privatisation, poor transport, pollution and the erosion of local democracy."

But don’t be fooled into thinking that this article is about me. It ain’t about me. It’s about whether or not it’s worth having principals to guide your words and actions, or not. It’s about whether the moral high ground can be in any way sustained by people who abuse their position, literally. And really it’s about the need, the absolute need, for critical reflection, at all levels, and especially by those who consider themselves above it.

In the meantime I shall count the seconds until this article disappears, too…


Pancho Brigantes (Damned Fool!)