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Mapping Gaza

Mapper | 07.01.2009 16:56 | Palestine | Technology

I realise that maps of Gaza are fairly low down people's priorities right now, but there's a real need for improved maps of the Gaza Strip for aid workers and it's one of the very real ways you could help

Contacts are being re-used from various GIS and satellite imaging services, but nothing compares to first hand knowledge of people who have been or are on the ground.

A number of us are using Open Street Maps to build up Creative Commons licensed maps, and are asking for assistance in flagging any errors / things that need doing by using the Open Street Bugs website  http://openstreetbugs.appspot.com/?lat=31.414&lon=34.389&zoom=11 to add your knowledge of the region.

Whilst Open Street Maps restricts us to using open source data, it is an easy way of lay-people adding in geoinformation which can then be added to other data sources for use by relief workers.

We're doing much of the OSM work using the wiki page  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Palestine_Gaza to organise efforts and data sources, and help there too will be useful.

If you have absolutely no idea of the layout of Gaza, and I'm guessing most won't, please either ask somebody who does or help with aid efforts in other ways. I may not be able to stop the conflict, or have much money to give to relevant charities but I can help the aid workers on the ground in some small way.

Mapper

Comments

Hide the following 10 comments

Just an observation.......

07.01.2009 18:03

How much would the IDF like a detailed, up to date map of Gaza with local knowledge thrown in?

Bob


The upside

07.01.2009 18:44


A decent map might help the IDF avoid doing something as stupid as bombing a pair of UN schools again.

Norville B


@Norville

07.01.2009 19:09

That wouldn't have stopped them, they're already trotting out the well worn propaganda that there was rocket fire coming from the school/mosque/refugee camp (see ->  http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5462298.ece). You might want to have a look at the Indie where Fisk says they would do EXACTLY this ->  http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-why-do-they-hate-the-west-so-much-we-will-ask-1230046.html

They are liars, propagandists, murderers and war criminals. Israel have to be brought in to line with international law, they say they want to stop the rockets? Then they should return to the pre-1967 borders as per UN resolution 242, grant the right to return, make reparations, lift the siege, allow the Palestinians the right to self determination, allow them a viable state and basically act like they want peace rather than constant war. The seperation wall has to come down, the jew only roads have to be stopped and the practices of apartheid have to be stopped.

They claim they are fighting terror when in reality what they are doing is genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Ashley


yes of course

07.01.2009 19:20

because that was just so completely unintentional

snark


Dirty

07.01.2009 22:39

I would caution against this too.
"but there's a real need for improved maps of the Gaza Strip for aid workers and it's one of the very real ways you could help "
Which aid workers? Most aid workers there are Gazans themselves and the few that aren't know Gazans to ask for directions. Can you name names or a point to an aid group website requesting this information? If it is a known aid agency or aid worker then why wouldn't they print their name, or even a known email address, in the request?

Having the exact GPS coordinates of each UN insignia bedecked, falg-illuminated school the IDF have managed to hit I think three of them now. Just like the US managed to hit the Chinese embassy during the Kosovo barrage of cruise missiles. They accidentally thought those coordinates were for aiming at rather than avoiding.

Trix


reality check

08.01.2009 09:47

Although intuitively feel the need for caution on this as well, it's well worth a reality check. The IDF has recently completed 3-D models of the entire west bank and gaza, although most soldiers still rely upon ariel photographs where each house is given a 4 digit number to facilitate coordination. They also rely heavily on GPS and images from drones, so I really doubt that supplying Gazans with better maps is really going to give the IDF anything they don't already have

AA


War is

08.01.2009 16:29

"so I really doubt that supplying Gazans with better maps is really going to give the IDF anything they don't already have "
You doubt it? To what degree of certainty have you thought that through? 90%? Tha's good odds except when you are dealing with peoples lives. I can think of one thing it would give the IDF, something you mentioned in your first posts - "your knowledge of the region". That sort of information could be useful to any data-mining GIS program, filed under a category like 'Places frequented by UK activists' , 'people known to UK activists', that sort of thing. Just because you can't see a risk doesn't mean there is a risk and just because I point that out doesn't mean I am saying you are IDF, just that you have to explain the benefits and explain your trustworthyness before you ask for that sort of help.

Even in peacetime you should have to explain your request more in depth and expect questions. This is war-time and 'loose lips sink ships' so you don't have the right to demand reasons not to trust you, the onus is on you to explain your request and yourself. There is a fuii-spectrum Israeli propaganda and intelligence campaign under way that was prepared in advance.

So this is a project that you thought up and no one has asked for ?
Who is it going to help and how?
What risks can you see in this?

Trix


clarification

08.01.2009 17:47

Trix -

"so I really doubt that supplying Gazans with better maps is really going to give the IDF anything they don't already have "

Sorry, I didn't intend that to be an endorsement of providing better maps that could potentially benefit the IDF. Given the current context (and during 'peace time', as you said), such requests must be viewed very skeptically. I based my assertion that the IDF have spent years mapping the occupied territories (3-D models ffs!) partly on research done on the IDF by Eyal Weisman , and also on the (unwritten by me but previously mentioned by someone else) that most aid workers are gazans themselves, which would render requests for more info v suspicious

AA


Mapper

08.01.2009 18:28

Here is another risk. It is a computer war-games designer building a 3D shoot'em-up of Gaza, where players get groovy weapons like armoured caterpillars to kill civilians, medics and activists as well as the odd Kalsh carrying zombie . They know they could make a fortune in Israel and the US just now with a topical war-game and they just can't find Palestine on a map for some reason.

You point is the IDF probably know IDF inside out - my point is they haven't been on the ground for two years. Gazans don't need it - activists on the ground trusted by Gazans don't need it. So who is it for ?

So I would like again to ask whoever posted the article to clarify their request for help. I'm surprised that they haven't since they presumably are reading this. What legitimate reason do you want activists local knowledge to build a map ? Has someone asked for this information? If you are genuine and well-meaning, is there not some better way you can think to contribute your time and intelligence to just now?

If they don't respond it will indicate to me that the original request was sinister.

Trix


Israeli Dirty Tricks on IM

09.01.2009 19:21

Since Mapper hasn't any answers in a reasonable time then I think it is reasonable to assume the article is an Israeli Intelligence operation.

I think posters here should bear in mind that some supposedly pro-Gazan or neutral posts are in fact malicious pro-Israeli propaganda at best, and a security risk at worst.

Trix


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