"Someone on here once posted the following and it's something I'd like to think is broadly true:"

"Explain why you are there, treat them with the same respect any other human deserves and you get in most cases a reasonable conversation with some body who comes from the same background you do

The attempt by the police to intimidate people going to the Climate Camp at Kingsnorth proves that the statement is false.

When the police start to behave reasonably they will earn respect and in turn will be treated with less disdain.

By the way, that does not mean I agree with all the postings which you may call "anti-police".

You nearly had me convinced there, until I stopped and remembered all the things I've actually witnessed.

A lot of police are happy to have a chat with you but as soon as they get the order to 'advance' it's like the human side disappears, a mask comes down, and you get brutalised.

If no one likes doing riot duty, then who joins the TSG?

A lot of you dont like it, fair enough. I get the impression a lot of you blame protestors for the fact that you have to do it (in fact cops have said to me 'if you weren't here, we could go home...'). It seems to me lot of the time police violently clear areas so they can go home sooner, rather than waiting a couple of hours for the protest to wind down of its own accord.

On Saturday during the baton charges we saw police hitting kids. I saw a guy fall to the floor with head injuries, the cop kept screaming at him to move- of which he really wasn't capable- and kept hitting him because he wasn't moving. In the end the only way we got the cop to stop hitting this guy was when a few people picked him up and physically carried him in the direction he'd been ordered to go.

This kind of thing doesn't even surprise me any more. Having done demos for the past 6 years the only thing that surprises me is that there hasn't been another Blair Peach as yet.

Quite an apt name that.

Look at this post......... http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/01/418083.html

Scroll down till you get to the picure of blood.... look at the wound....... and you expect folk to treat you with respect.

The kingsnorth comment is very apt. Go youtube some of the videos and tell me that the police were being respectful.

then go read all the horrific injuries that your comrades suffered at the hands of those (thoroughly searched and hassled) protestors.

You joined the force for good money, a decent pension and the right to boss people around (were you bullied at school?).............. earn your money, carry on propping up big business and a corrupt government.

If it pains you so much to be involved with all this hassle you could always change jobs and go with whatever conscience you have!

Indymedia puts out a message that is “biased” towards the side of the activists, just as police press spokespeople’s put out statements “biased” to your points of view.

Read the Indymedia Mission Statement it states clearly “Indymedia UK does not attempt to take an objective and impartial standpoint: Indymedia UK clearly states its subjectivity.”

What you have to say is spread all over the papers like it is pure fact, and I know from personal experience how the police can twist things, we on the other hand simply have our citizen media.

I left before I got to the embassy (because the group I travelled with was going) but my understanding is it kicked off after the police stopped people marching to the embassy. If this is correct then you must understand if you stand in people’s way they are not always going to standby and let you. 100,000 (12,000 or whatever if we believe your figures) people you are meant to work for were on that march and they wanted to protest at the embassy.

I fully understand that you feel you are just doing your job but at the end of the day the simplest way of putting it is we are just doing ours too.

"Look at this post.........  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/01/418083.html

"Scroll down till you get to the picure of blood.... look at the wound....... and you expect folk to treat you with respect."

Scroll down to the end and it reads, "The march snaked its way around Kensington and came to a halt outside the Israeli Embassy where a huge number of people were trying to get into the embassy. A huge number of police prevented this with efficient brutality, ending up boxing all protesters still claiming their democratic rights to protest in for hours. Eventually all were let out through police line, searched, ID cheked and asked to state their name to a blinding video camera."

Did the masked police officers have to go through the same ordeal? Of course not and they would have object violently if anyone suggested that they should. And they think that people should treat them with respect.

The Met had advance warning of this demo - lots of things were predictable - the huge turnout in the face of the relentless carnage that people had been witnessing for weeks - the fact that the demo would attract people who don't like those who have chosen to be cops - and the fact that people would see the embassy as a target. And the planning and policing was absolutely useless in the face of this.

If you decide that you want to be paid to prevent people from doing what they want to do, you will make enemies - especially when many of your colleagues piss people off on a daily basis with their over-zealous application of laws they don't understand (you yourself admit half of them don't even understand the issues that people are protesting about), and their tendency to use violence long before it is appropriate or necessary. So, when people take the opportunity to exact some revenge, you should not be surprised. Even if you don't behave like this yourself - I bet you've stood and watched colleagues do it - time and time again.

You complain that people were masked up - and yet you must see how people are filmed by FIT at demos all the time - in light of this it seems eminently sensible to make the job of collecting info on everybody who attends demos as difficult as possible. So, why presume that it indicates an intention to be violent? When the police stop filming all demos automatically, even when no crime is being committed, then maybe there will be less masks to deal with. In any case, it is your responsibility to act in a proportionate manner - and that most definitely did not happen. Many people were subjected to random violence by cops and then held for hours in sub zero temperatures before being forced to give names, addresses and have their photos taken.

Saturday's demo was just another one where expressing your opposition to injustice means being willing to be subjected to over-policing and being treated as a wrongdoer for no good reason at all. Its about time cops understood that we are supposed to have the right to express ourselves. and that that right should not be overridden lightly.

I don't know how many people had a grudge before the demo, but I am pretty sure that thousands more were disgusted by the policing they experienced on Saturday and that next time more people will start the demo with a grudge as a result of the cack-handed policing they experienced on Saturday.

Perhaps you just aren't cut out to do what you chose to be paid to do.

Yes, some of us are intent on disruption - when we live in this sham of a democracy where the government 100% ignores a - to - b marches, it’s the only thing that stands a chance of effecting govt. policy. And whether you admit it or not, you ARE complicit in atrocities such as that in Gaza; you are a tool of the State (in this case Israel & the UK & US govt), and you are preventing ordinary people from holding them in any way to account. And when Israel isn’t penalised for persistently violating international law, ordinary people have a duty to act. Police are a direct obstacle to achieving social justice.

Although I believe disruption is important, I didn’t go on the demo to fight with the police. Like most people, when individual officers are nice to me (not very often), I’m nice back. But when I saw your colleagues INDISCRIMINATLEY battoning those who chanced to be at the front of the crowd - causing panic and crushes (and yes, I certainly saw some officers enjoying it), it made me want to fight back. It’s a natural response.
Don’t make out like the police are victims in all this. You have a choice about what career path you take. Yes, maybe three cops were injured, but the majority were protected by riot shields/battons/helmets and endless reinforcements. Slight inequality of power there I think! Don’t you think that beating anyone on the head who happened to be at the front of the demo - most of whom were completely unarmed - was just a tad disproportionate?!
By the way, photographers were on the whole too busy getting the hell out of there/getting crushed to take many snaps of the baton/horse charges, which is why you may think we were the aggressors.

You don’t have to tolerate it. You had no moral duty to protect the embassy. Quit your job and do something that doesn’t involve beating up ordinary people for an entity that really doesn’t give a damn about you.

Serpico,
It's a novelty to have a cop posting here openly so I'll bite.

My major problem with the British police is that they do not enforce the law equally, justly or morally, they act in a biased and illegal manner. There'd be damn fewer anarchists if your prisons were just for poor people. When you have counted a small crowd accurately and then the 'official police estimates' are a fraction of what you know to be true then you learn to expect police to lie for political reasons.

I don't know whether there is specific English laws against bombarding civilians, using white phosphorus as a weapon, preventing aid to reach wounded or deliberately targeting medics. That should be unimportant to you though as there is international law that the police have a legal duty to uphold. Through precedent, treaty and principle - such as but not limited to the Nuremberg Principles - the actions in Gaza are clearly illegal. You say the Israeli embassy staff don't deserved to be lynched nor do they deserve the near constant air-time for their lying propaganda that they get. There is a legal duty on everyone to oppose acts of genocide and mass-murder. This duty includes the right to resist such acts forcably, as is witnessed by the fact that people who tried to kill Hitler were posthumously fully pardoned.

And yet you don't uphold international law. I don't mean you personally don't, I mean the British judiciary as a whole constantly allow international law to be flouted, is almost designed to do so. The US planes that carry munitions and kidnapped prisoners that use our airfields and are subject to British law are never searched. Murderous Generals like Pinochet and Sharon are rarely ever questioned and never taken brought to trial. Weapons factories aka BombMakers are never inspected by the police, the UK is one of the major exporters of arms and when they are proven to have been used against civilians, such as East Timor, no action is taken against the manufacturers. And when the same bomb-makers are caught offering and taking bribes it takes a foriegn justice organistation to prosecute them.

The day a police officer arrests Tony Blair and Gordon Brown or some future puppet prime-minister for launching an illegal war responsible for illegal war-crimes then he can demand some respect here.

I personally don't fight cops, I see cops as an obstacle between me and my real target. The people who like to get stuck into cops are generally either teenagers trying to impress a girl or people who have been on the receiving end of police violence themselves. Under international law though, if you are defending an illegal bomb-maker whose bombs are being used in 'Crimes Against Humanity' then there is a legal right and a duty for people to use force to overcome that.

full stop

Of course not all police enjoy using their weapons on protestors - but some do. It's a mixed bag, like the army or any other security service. (I'm ex army myself, incidentally). And I'm happy to believe you're one of the ones who doesn't. But where you shoot yourself in the foot, where you totally throw away your own credibility, is in refusing to admit the existence (and the extent) of the other kind within your ranks. Have you ever, in your whole career, spoken out against abuse of power, position and privilege committed by your colleagues?

Virtually all of what was thrown your way on the Gaza demo was harmless, and you know it. Shoes and flimsy bits of placard sticks, light as matchwood. A bit of red paint. You guys had helmets, kevlar vests, shields and batons. Which means you're well equipped to "take it" for as long as necessary, with virtually no risk to yourselves. I saw several people batonned on the ground for attempting sit-down protests. Working class or not, you're supposed to act responsibly - even though the responsibility is taken off your shoulders, in that you run no risk of personal prosecution for unwarranted violence. I successfully sued the police 2 years ago, after myself and several others took a battering (and were later maliciously and falsely prosecuted, it was found) on an anti-war demo. Those guys were thugs, but nothing happened to them as the it's the Met who carries the can, meaning they can act with impunity.

I don't normaly go to demos because I'm sick of getting drawn into the violenc which is as often as not (but no always) started by TSG who just can't wait to get stuck in. I've seen officers screaming and swinging out wildly as other officers try to hold them back. I was on that demo, my first in a couple of years, because I've lived and worked in Gaza and I have friends there now. I took a few baton blows to the legs and body just for trying to help others up off the ground who'd been knocked down by cops who continued to hit them where they lay.

If a few people throw things and you guys react by lashing out indiscriminately at everyone within range, people will judge you accordingly. If you don't want to be tarred with the same brush as the meathead contingent within your ranks, have the guts to go against them. Don't come here and whine.

 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/01/417992.html

a 79 year old man (a very courageous friend of mine) beaten unconscious by your pals - and if you had been there you would have either joined in with the tooled-up cowardly thugs, or made sure your cop mates got away and then covered up for them afterwards wouldn't you? Which makes you no better than them does it? Or would you really uphold the law and testify against the beating of an old man?

Go on then, uphold the law when you see 'bad cops' breaking it and arrest them! When was the last time that ever happened? When I do see that happening on a regular basis, I will have the utmost respect for all cops. Otherwise stop bleating.

> Police did not deploy in "riot" kit but normal everyday beat helmets and jackets.

Even those who in 'everyday' kit carry batons and pepper spray, non? If protesters turned up with heavy sticks and chemical weapons, and claiming these were the *less* confrontational option, we'd quickly get accused of being violent thugs. Meanwhile, the police routinely use violence to control people and then have the cheek to complain when people fight back.

Ooops, silly me, I forgot: violence is only OK if you're being paid by the state to do it on their behalf.

So... violence against the status quo is appalling, but violence in defence of the status quo is fine. Who made these rules? The rich and powerful who benefit most from the status quo, of course.

Personally, I don't like seeing anyone hurt but those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable. And a violent revolution is far more humane than letting this blood-soaked system rumble on.

.........Follow the same trail as that pervert Todd (I'll provide the vodka). Your scum and you know it!

the cops tried to confiscate the camera phone of someone at the front videoing the violent cop reaction under the pretext of using it as 'evidence'. it would be interesting to know if any cameras/phones were seized.

...it was only a small minority who were violent, while the most were law abiding citizens who wanted to protest peacefully.

No. The aim is not to protest peacefully, the aim is to stop the attacks on Gaza. Many in the crowd had friends or family in Gaza, and in any case there is deep anger amongst very many in the Muslim and non-Muslim world about what is happening.

The police came under attack. Yes. They were protecting Israeli state interests, the very people who are killing hundreds and starving thousands in Gaza. At the same time the police condemn people for throwing sticks, they protect those that are launching missiles.

But as was pointed out above, it's hardly a level playing field is it? One side has a few sticks, while the other has cs spray, purpose built batons, body armour, shields, horses, and never ending resourses. And while police get commendations for bravery, protesters get long sentences for violent disorder.

Violence from the crowd was targetted, measured and proportionate. Violence from the police was indiscriminate, vengeful and hugely disproportionate. As it always is.

some react badly & then you put your full kit on. Ive seen this before & so have many others many times on peaceful demo's, it winds people up.
Then to get at the few who have had a go at everyone is baton charged , occasionally missing people if they kneel down enough but rarely, a 79yr old war veteran had pretty bad injuries, a well known MP last wk was thrown to the ground during a charge, you say a female sgt was grabbed & beaten thats terrible if true, was it before or after the kettle,before or after people were led down the road tunnel & kettled again?.

Ive been hit on the head more than once by baton charges during incidents like this. Ive seen kettles happen then police vans driven into them, the armoured van was rocked abit instead of driving out at proportionate speed it was driven out backwards at about 50mph through the crowd of men women which included children, one girl was run over, after that things people were angry.
What is the strategy here it seems as if either senior officers or politicians at these events want some trouble to feed to the corporate media.
We were kettled right outside the embassy, on one side & a starbucks on the other, with FIT taking photos from roof above the embassy gate. The majority of officers didnt seem to be protecting the embassy in fact a thousand or so were kettled next to it.
Iam sure if we had really wanted to get in we could of, the buildings in the kettle would have had enough tools & objects for us to do it, but then we would have been up against Israeli soldiers known for sniping children.
I dont know whats in the mind of senior officers or politicians, its strange.
Why is it that a state like Israel that disrespects diplomatic immunity of Palestinians & targets v.obviously marked UN buildings with children in allowed any diplomatic immunity or trade??.There have been attempts to arrest guilty Israeli officers when they arrive in Britain by plane, but somehow a warning gets to them why?
British aerospace supplies Israel with military software, EDO etc, UK shipbrokers are sending 3,000 tonnes of arms from the USA using Greek ships as we speak, the deal in london should at least be halted after UN resolution led by UK government, otherwise its a paper tiget.
Lets forget sides, Ive know you have a tough job& how hard it is to get a good picture of massive demo's & events, as you know on our side we dont have all the equipment you have, but we have alot of public support, often discrete.

Many activists liase well with police, some hate you because despite some of you being working class your often defending a system whose policy is to let roughly 10million mainly children die every year according to UN figures from preventable poverty, this doesnt even encourage birth control as poor substience farmers rely on large families.
Many activists would make excellent special police constables, I do not believe in a large unelected delegated full time police force, its obviously a political force & serves a old boy network& weakly democratic system subservient to a false economy led by corporate bankers like the American Methodist Christian, Rockefeller family.

We need a emergency services that work with direct social & economic democracy soon to help stop the many ecological disasters & regualte the increasing WMD's plus dangerous experiments that are happening in & out of the laboratory thanks to short term greed.
There is no reason why as anarchist I cant join a truelly democractic police force, the main tenant to me is direct democracy, freedom& peoples assemblies , you can trace this from Athenian Greek democracy,the english civil war's fight for democracy, Bakunins calls for peoples assemblies to today. Technology increasingly has the ability to help us achieve this or destroy us, humanity can protect this planet & maintain ecological balance.

1. Some people do turn up at demos wit the intention to start trouble

1b. Some of them believe they are doing the right thing

1c. Some just love the buzz

1d. Some of them are so-called protesters, some of them are so co-called guardians of public order


2. The plod come here and complain about getting assaulted. But seem to be completely blind to the fact that these bottleneck tactics have been used for decades now on political demos to wind people up and provoke violence. Same goes for bringing in horses to scare the shit out of people.

I refuse to believe the Plod don't realise that these tactics are seen as a provocation and will lead to stressing people to the point of explosion.

3. The police would have a lot more respect from our side of the deal if they were known to take their public order and public defender remits seriously. That is fewer people would tolerate the public abusing the police if the police were known to not tolerate the police abusing the public. If you want to eb treated decently here are a few tips:

Refuse illegal orders!

Refuse to remove your epaulettes

Refuse to indiscriminately baton charge protesters.

Refuse to infiltrate demos in plain clothes and provoke trouble.

Refuse to turn a blind eye to colleagues who stick the boot in.

Refuse arrest people on bullshit offences that you know will not be carried through to charge

Refuse to lie under oath in court.

Refuse to act like a private army for business.

And the same goes for protesters.

Don't turn up to demos just to use the crowd as a human shield for a fight between you and the plod. You want to fight the plod, go do it elsewhere and away from peaceful protesters

Protesters, don't turn a blind eye to missile throwers if there are in the midst of a demo. They endanger others and hand the plod and media an excuse on a plate to stick the boot in.

Don't make excuses for scum who are just there for a fight.


No peaceful person deserves to be assaulted. But no person who starts a fight should come bleating when they get more than they bargained for: police and protesters alike!

enough, Switzerland is the land of anarchist watchmaker guilds,powerful cooperatives & some limited direct democracy with its cantons, this is why it has the worlds highest standard of living, relatively low crime despite universal handgun ownership. Still it exists in a v.corrupt global system, goodluck with catching Israeli war criminals& stopping corruption in a inherently corrupt system.
I think the best you & your fellow humanist or universalist officers can do is work as much for democracy as possible & limit the damage until we get real democracy in place.
Personally if I know what I know now I might of even joined the police or the army to do this myself, there is definetely a need for good people there,keep an eye on any serious nazis still on the force.
Many veteran activists know one famous activist from Sheffield has ACAB tattoed on his head,he is really a nice guy & I hope his liver is recovering,turns out his long lost brother is a copper. ACAB & I agree that any copper who does all he can to support a dying inherently corrupt system is dooming themselves really, many computers do at least record almost everything including the watchers

I am sure you mean well mate but you never make any sense, you confuse the thread of discussion, you bring up topics that are irrelevant and personal to individuals and should not be put on an open newswire and lastly you talk such a load of drivvel. You seem to spend your day posting comments on every posting. So ok we know you exist, take a break, think long and hard about what you want to write, take a deep breath and don't fucking write it please. Enough is enough!

Why were so many officers without their numbers on their shoulder? I bet it was mostly TSG. Why? Because they are thugs. And they remove or cover their numbers as to not be held acountable for their actions.

 http://sheepdogsandwolves.blogspot.com/2009/01/so-who-started-it.html

Sunday, 11 January 2009

So.... who started it?

Around 100-120k people marched yesterday. We were briefed that the public order branch expected, and had been told the plan had been arranged for around 15-20k, despite it being all over the media and sites like Indymedia that around 100k were due to turn up. The estimates on numbers are usually somewhere between the Police ones (invariably considerably less than there actually are) and the organisers who seriously ramp up the turn out. On this occasion however, the front of the march reached the embassy as the back had not long left Hyde Park, a distance of just under 1.5 miles, and it was packed, literally building line to building line across 4 lanes of road. We were told (at around 3pm) the official Police estimate was 20-25k, which was complete and utter bollocks. There were a hell of a lot of people, at the front end were families and old people, at the back were mostly young males.

As usual we had been told that our role was to facilitate the lawful demonstration and that we were effectively 'community Policing' unless the situation changed and things became violent. Crucially, we were told that despite the fact that nearly every march relating to the Gaza/Israel situation had experienced violence, this was not sufficient evidence to suggest that THIS march would become violent. As such, because the senior officers are so afraid of offending the wrong people, we were NOT in possession of riot helmets or shields which were left on the carriers, although we all were in our protective gear and coveralls under the yellow jackets. We were wearing our normal everyday beat helmets and to say some were not happy about that would be a slight understatement.

Unlike at football matches where fixtures are given categories to judge the expected level of violence based on previous experience (A = virtually nil, C+ something like Millwall v Chelsea, Rangers v Celtic etc) these aren't used at demos, which is why we have FIT - forward intelligence teams - who identify specific individuals based on known previous history, in order to judge the expected level of hostility.

My serial was one of the several dozen at the front of the march. The organisers had loads of volunteer stewards whose job was supposed to be to facilitate the movement of the march although they were all as emotionally involved with the march as everyone else there. They were organised at the front in three separate ranks, with the 'celeb' marchers in between the 1st and 2nd, and the rest of the march behind the 3rd. Not long after we set off a group of about a hundred young males broke through their own stewards and sprinted off towards the Police serials at the head of the march. After some negotiation with the stewards, they agreed (eventually) to rejoin the march behind the stewards and celebs. Our serials at the front were stretched out along the sides of the march, with a couple of officers every 50-10o meters or so.

Things were pretty peaceful for the whole length of the Bayswater Road and although very emotive, there was quite a bit of banter between the Police officers and the demonstrators and things stayed that way despite the massive numbers until the head of the march got to the North Gate of Kensington Gardens. Inside were a couple of PSU's on the other side of the gate, and as we passed there was nothing more than a bit of shoe throwing and jeering. We carried on down towards the front entrance to the Embassy and our end stayed pretty much the same. All of a sudden we heard calls from one of our other serials that dozens of people tried to break through the gates to get to the embassy and were climbing the fencing, throwing anything to hand, throwing burning flags at the gate and that they needed more units to help out. Within seconds we heard the call that no police officer wants to hear "more units now, urgent assistance, we're under attack, officer down"

What had started as a several dozen turned into a hundred or so and the officers were being attacked with missiles including glass bottles, balloons filled with paint, scaffolding clips and metal poles, and a couple had been dragged into the crowd and were beaten to the floor. One officer was knocked unconscious by a scaffolding pole, two received really bad facial injuries and the other officers (male and female) were kicked and punched repeatedly until a couple of PSU's managed to get to them. At the time we were not allowed to wear our protective helmets and were still marching towards the Embassy.

Not long after we got to the Embassy gates the crowd stopped to shout and jeer at the gates (as they can't get close to the Embassy itself) and there was a bit of banner and shoe throwing. From where we were the crowd couldn't see the gates and all they knew was that they had stopped. Immediately they blamed us and lots of people were asking us "why have you stopped us marching?" It's a simple fact of numbers, 100,000 people won't fit down a street at the best of times, let alone when the head of the group has stopped because they wanted to demonstrate, we hadn't blocked anyone in at that point.

Within a couple of minutes we received the order to get our shields and helmets from the carriers after the extent of the attack and injuries received by the officers at the North Gate was fed back to the commanders. Because of the scale of the march, at least half the demonstrators hadn't seen any Police presence and to see a few of us here and there trying to get our kit gave them more than enough opportunity to shout abuse and thrown coins, cans, bottles etc as we tried to make our way through. The RVP point for the vans was changed because of the hostility we were getting to make it easier to get kitted up without having to walk half a mile or so up the road through a predominately (at that point) hostile crowd.

We got back to our posts near the front of the march to be told that a couple of shops opposite the embassy had been attacked and ransacked and that protestors had been seen stealing bottles and knives which were distributed through the crowd and subsequently thrown at the officers at the front gate. We were then informed by a serial at the gate that they had had several bottles of accelerant thrown at them which failed to ignite. At that point PSU's were brought in to contain the crowd which did effectively block them in, the hope being that they would dissipate out the other end. The confrontation became even more violent, demonstrators destroyed the fencing that was keeping the pavements clear for the shops and emergency evac units, and some of the fencing was used as a barricade to stop the Police PSU's from getting into the crowd to arrest people, specifically those from last weeks demo who had been recognised by the intelligence teams.

We then used filter cordons to try and dissipate the crowds to get the vast majority of people out of the area, this consists of a couple of ranks of officers with people still able to pass through. The people responsible for destroying the shops and throwing the missiles/accelerants were still in the crowd outside the embassy so they were contained. When information about the cordons started feeding back into the crowd a number of demonstrators tried to break out and were using anything and everything to attack the officers on the cordons, including the barriers themselves.

As the violence increased, our escalation increased, and for the first time in almost 8 years (in the Met) full deployment of longshield units was authorised, it was probably around 8pm at that point. Short of watercannon, rubber bullets and teargas, this is the highest state of force we can use in a public order situation and the decision to authorise it was not taken lightly, because it is so obviously aggressive.

Over the next several hours we had to use more cordons to force back crowds that had gathered on all sides to dissipate them as some (but not all by a long shot as there were a lot of normal demonstrators mixed in with them) of the group contained in the embassy continued attacking officers, vehicles, property, horses etc. We kept the cordons in as the protestors were taken out of the embassy cordon section individually where they were videoed for evidential purposes (to check against CCTV later) and searched for any items taken from the stores, they were then allowed to leave. As the number of people in the contained area shrunk we were able to move the cordons in further which released more officers to assist in searching so the whole group could dissipate quicker. Our cordons and teams were eventually taken down around half ten, having been in place from around four when it first started kicking off outside the embassy.

Here are a couple of vids already on youtube, make of them what you will.

The march along Bayswater Road and then Kensington High Street, just down from the embassy after we were ordered to get our full protective gear and shields.


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuYsANIWBFo&eurl=&feature=player_embedded


At the gates of the embassy, note the bloke singing "all Police are pigs, lets kill coppers" which was pretty much the order of the day from the majority of the people attacking officers.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5voVc827wUw&eurl=&feature=player_embedded


missiles being thrown and fencing used as barricades.


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wble59t5NlU&eurl=&feature=player_embedded


Metcountymounty

"All of a sudden we heard calls from one of our other serials that dozens of people tried to break through the gates to get to the embassy and were climbing the fencing, throwing anything to hand, throwing burning flags at the gate and that they needed more units to help out. Within seconds we heard the call that no police officer wants to hear "more units now, urgent assistance, we're under attack, officer down" "

"the "underpass incident" the week prior the baton charge was the result of a lone female sergeant - in everyday kit - being dragged into the crowd and given a good kicking by a large group."

I notice that neither of the posters are actually THERE when the alleged incidents happen, they are just told by other police afterwards that 'we had to attack them because they started it...'

Having heard other accounts from people who WERE there I'm more inclined to believe them.

Also I'd like to point out that the bad feeling between the Gaza demonstrators and the police started that first sunday 28th December demo. When we'd had the protest (during which we were allowed right to the embassy gates), people were either holding prayers or beginning to disperse- and suddenly a load of cops in black line up across the high street blocking the way to the station. A crush develops as people don't realise they've been blocked and are trying to move towards the station, and then the cops produce batons and dogs and start attacking the crowd.

Before this incident the attitude was 'we're against Israel- the police are there to facilitate our right to peaceful protest and are not the enemy'. Once this happened, an unprovoked attack on a peaceful crowd, relations started to sour. People came out again on the monday to find the police were no longer prepared to let people get to the embassy as they had been allowed to do the day before. Barriers got broken, police responded violently (again). It's escalated over the past 2 weeks as more and more people witness police violence.

What rank are you?

What level of public order training have you had?

"Within seconds we heard the call that no police officer wants to hear "more units now, urgent assistance, we're under attack, officer down""

The police have form on false claims of being attacked. Remember the 70 police officers supposedly injured by campers at Kingsnorth?  http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/dec/15/kingsnorth-climate-change-environment-police

Remember the lies of the police officer at the climate camp at Heathrow, lies caught on video and put on Indymedia? Hear these lives for yourself on the video at  http://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/08/378267.html

"We kept the cordons in as the protestors were taken out of the embassy cordon section individually where they were videoed for evidential purposes (to check against CCTV later) and searched for any items taken from the stores, they were then allowed to leave."

No mention of people's names and addresses being demanded with menaces, let alone any mention of what happens to this sort of illegally obtained information.

Stop digging.

Serpico

I admit finding it ironic that here you are telling Indymedia about those conditions of your job that make you feel powerless. We protest and take actions in order to not be powerless. You make your choices too. You could *not* be a cop and have a clean conscience, even join in to try to influence the outcome for the planet and all of its dependent inhabitants, including ourselves, against the onslaught of power elites who run the system by their rules to advance themselves.

You are an active member of the domestic para-military political force upholding this status quo. Your body and volition are militarised as an agent of state repression, to repress any expressions against corrupt and dehumanising politics, about living in and bequeathing a world that is completely devoid of a soul, with its endless dead consumption and competition and the whole-scale transformation of fragile and dwindling ecosystems into economic resources. Are these not causes of the same reasons that you yourself note? Your powerlessness in the face of the Abstract Machine (to coin Deleuze & Guattari) to get outside the system which, in your case, you are committed to uphold.

These are some of the same reasons I stand at demos squaring one off against one of your colleagues: s/he with faces behind plexiglass, eyes hostile, weapons in hand, s/he standing on the shoulders of the state machine's power - a virtual giant. Me, I may have a scarf around my face, I never bear a weapon, and I stand on the footprint of my shoe on a piece of tarmac, with the solidarity of those who feel similarly to me about the issue.

You probably joined the force to catch "bad guys" and to "do good", help people, make a positive contribution to your community, make your folks proud. Don't you just hate how the Abstract Machine has perverted that: you and your colleagues have been pushed into ensuring that the people (who, one presumes, the police are intending to protect) who are voicing legitimate protests against another nation's war crimes, or expressing alarm and anger at the rampant and apparently now irreversible destruction of the biosphere, of expressing solidarity with those the system is screwing one way or another, directly or indirectly, just like you, just like me. In effect, the Abstract Machine has established a condition in each of us to sell ourselves out. But because of the extent of the state power you represent (the courts, jail, tests and evidence collection, access to outside, etc.), our conditions will never be equal. You have the added weight of responsibility to change your role in this issue (for example, work with us from the inside, undermine the police force wherever you can, leak information, etc.) or get out of the force entirely. All the while you are in the force, representing the state and its processes and inequalities, its abuses of power and its destruction, you will be seen as choosing to stand for those values and will be treated accordingly.

Your good intentions have been twisted into upholding the edifice of those who continue to benefit from exploitation, murder, and plundering. As a cop, your duty is to uphold the laws of the land, and yet in part due to the Thatcher politicisation of you during the Miner's Strike and also due to some 3,000 news criminal laws brought in by nuLabour, your good intentions serve your political masters' wishes.

The state has long since changed its relationship with the citizenry, thereby revoking the civic contract. If we are ipso facto considered devious to be put under constant surveillance and tagged electronically and genetically, then we shall act deviously, with conviction and with pride. If we are considered as enemies of the state and subjected to routine harassment and over-zealous use of power whilst we go about our ordinary business or expressing our right to protest, then we shall be enemies of the state with conviction, and with pride.

Because of your role in upholding the force of state, and because of our role in challenging the absolute diabolical way that the state is governed and our futures mortgaged, we are - by definition - at loggerheads. Make your choices Serpico. This will be one of the most important decisions of your life. It will bring about profound and long-lasting change for you, and your conscience will be clean when you tell your child what you did in the revolution for ecological and social equity.

Good luck.

A few years ago I would have sympathised with you, and I do still feel sorry for the decent coppers caught up in an impossible situation. Most of us are rational people who appreciate the police when they are doing the decent side of the job - protecting the public - sincere thanks for that. And it's good that police are reading the sites and engaging in discussion BUT...
Something is wrong with this country just now, wouldnt you agree? The government are running amok eroding civil liberties, undertaking mass surveillance, treating everyone as a potential criminal and restricting any kind of dissent - and we HAVE HAD ENOUGH.
Even those of us who have always upheld peaceful protest realise that this cynical government will take no notice of public opinion until we get serious - and that rather puts YOU in the firing line.
It doesnt help that the police force are misusing legislation that is unjust anyway (terrorist acts, stop and search, SOCPA etc) as well as maintaining databases on innocent people - that citizens are forced to go to the european court of human rights to get their DNA records removed from the database and the UK is unanimously found to be acting against human rights is a fucking travesty and makes me fucking embarrassed of my own country.
The fact is people have had enough and we are prepared to fight it and you inevitably are going to be in the way. What you should be doing is fighting against the pressures being put on you by a self serving government and making it plain that you are unhappy about having to uphold the indefensible. We would applaud you and you would gain peoples undying respect. When the met police authority said it didnt want to take up the governments offer of 30,000 tazers (300+ deaths in the US) I thought fantastic - if only the police association had added their voices too!
Stay safe but also stay out of the way or join us because if the government continue as they are you are going to see a lot worse to come.
In case you think I am just another teen nutter I am a 51 year old white collar worker and I dont care for all this talk of working class etc, its irrelevant, things are wrong and they need to stop and just about everyone I know feels the same way.

SERPICO,

I must confess I NEARLY felt sorry for you, and maybe you personally are not SUCH a bad apple, or not as bad as the majority....

Then I came to my senses and remembered being arrested vindictively for not committing a crime, treated like sh*t, charged on bullshit false accusations. Twice. The stories you boys make up in the canteen is a f*cking discrace. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. Then you wonder why people don't like you? This is false improsonment, perverting the course of justice, lying under oath etc. and it happens all the time. Its a systematic strategy of coppers to watch each others backs, make arrests to justify their existence and generally persecute people they don't like the look of.

Then look at the institutionalised lying and smear campaigns, like the Climate Camp propaganda your superiors churned out day after day.....

And all those angry youth, ever wonder why they're so angry? I don't get randomly stopped and searched any more, but I did when I was younger, and I'm not even black!. It's well documented how targetted and badly treated asians and blacks are by your lot, so it's hardly surprising that when they get a chance to get their own back they take it.

Yes, there must be SOME good coppers out there (just by the law of averages if nothing else), but how can you possibly justify this systematic institutionalised racism, corruption and propaganda?

Anyway, thanks for posting. Good to see that some of you read proper news sources ;)

BY THE WAY,
YOU'VE GONE VERY QUIET, WE'D LOVE TO HEAR SOME DIRECT RESPONSES TO SOME OF THESE POINTS..... ANYBODY OUT THERE ?????? SERPICOOOOOO ?

I have been on most demos in and around London, I am a experienced Public order trained Medic. Officers do not wake up and think, "I know I am going to baton someone today and have a laugh!"

I know for a fact that most demonstrators are law abiding people, however a substantial number know the emotions and exploit them to their own personal vendetta. i.e.- Masked up angry youths who "Have come to kick fuck out of the pigs!" And also people like FITwatch who ramp people up but only moan when the police do their job !

On the first day 28th, I was there. I was assaulted, yes I did ‘stick’ offenders, but only after hours of verbal negotiation which as always falls on death ears. I was there also on the 3rd. One of my officers was hit with a scaffold clip, one was knocked out........Its part of the job and we deal with it. So what do you expect when public order breaks down, fluffy teddies and cups of tea?....No you get very firm policing, Baton strikes, punches, open hand strikes, knee strikes and kicks, that’s the point at the end of the day it is a last resort and not taken lightly.

So by all means exercise your democratic right to protest peacefully but don’t moan when you find yourself facing a short shield charge.......

"So by all means exercise your democratic right to protest peacefully but don’t moan when you find yourself facing a short shield charge......."

So peaceful demonstrators shouldn't moan about being assaulted by the plod! That about sums it up nicely.

Thank you for declaring quite clearly what side your bread is buttered on and it obviously isn't the public you are supposed to be defending that you are worried about.

Are you even aware than collective punishment is illegal? That false imprisonment is illegal? That the public you routinely abuse is supposed to have its human rights PROTECTED by you?

If you want to earn some fans, then start grassing your own up for assaulting members of the public, for perjury, for racism, for sexism, for theft.

Respect is EARNT not beaten into people.

Your a serving officer PS COMMENT?

Can you tell us where you are based?

Again, what level of public order training have you had? What rank are you?

PS "falls on death ears"!!! Freudian slip if ever there was one!

I knew mhy comments might be abit controversial, they were relevant& did not name, threaten or say anything that isnt common knowledge.
If your going to insult someone at least spell drivel correctly.
Ive just been on crutches & at home for last 4 months or so after a nasty fall, so had some time to post before that I had a long break. Ive had my articles listed on journalist syndicated pages by other people I dont know, Ive had thanks & praise from scientists interested in health& safety plus trade unionists in various unions.
I had some thanks for pointing out that numerous including IMC articles had time wrong for major GAZA demo on the 3rd of January after police forced PSC to change it.
Been helping a friend with a roofing job in last few days so unable to post,but please continue with your educated insults& hide behind different names you keep changing, well done, maybe as your title implies you havent got any?.

PS why hasnt antibollox comment been taken off for breaching imc guidelines??
there was somethin else about the title change from its original title a "voice from behind NATO" or something before it became " a cop opines",strange