what are you talking about?!

Bless.

What these clowns don't know they just make up to satisfy their own agendas. That's how simple it is. They scream FACTS & PROOF regularly but when it comes to their own agendas or what they want to hear along the grapevine those FACTS & PROOF go out the window.

Well he was "seen" possibly on one of the protest marches... but can not confrim sorry it not more concrete than that I am currently trawling thought a number of webiste etc to see if there any further prove. I sure you will understand but it takes time.

The story has been reported on the Daily Mail website with pictures of the fallen. And for what little it is worth I was there and saw the whole incident While I can't be certain the man I saw is dead, he is the same man in the pictures on the daily mail site and he was not breathing when I saw him last.

You don't get accuracy by reading the lies in crappy papers. There is a picture of the man in the Guardian (not that they're a lot better) believed to be taken between the time he first collapsed and was helped to his feet and his second, fatal, collapse. The T-shirt he's wearing clearly identifies him with the protests going on.

One aspect which puzzles me is one of the witnesses who tried to give help after his second collapse says he was wearing a Millwall FC shirt. He IS wearing a longer-sleeved blue shirt under the white(ish) T-shirt. Was that the Millwall shirt?

Something else "accuracy" might like to know is that the man was helped by four protesters after his second collapse. One of them is a first-aider, another was on the phone to ambulance dispatch who were giving advice and instructions. The police forced the helpers away from the man. The Ambulance dispatcher asked to speak to the police and they were offered the phone, but they refused to speak to the ambulance service. Instead two police "medics" intervened. These are not fully trained paramedics, but thugs with big sticks and a bit of first-aid training -i.e. no more expert, and maybe less so, than the protester they had forced away. Having refused the much more expert phone backup and instruction from the fully-trained ambulance dispatcher, their violent intervention reduced the quality and expertise of the care the man was receiving at a critical time. Perhaps he would have died anyway, but his chances of survival were certainly reduced by ignorant and stupid police behaviour.

You should also investigate the events which occurred immediately before the man's first collapse.


Without the backup of the ambulance dispatcher

Whether or not the man was a protestor, the demonstration was in solidarity with a man who died. It does not necessarily have to be political.

I know witnesses to the incident, and they say they saw the man hit over the head with a baton, then collapse. I have also heard witnesses see the man with blood on his head lying/sitting down. This should not be taken lightly.

Apparently he wasn't a protester. He was 47-year-old Ian Tomlinson, who worked in newsagent, had spent the day at work, and was on his way home. (Walking down a street by where you work doesn't automatically mean you sympathise with the protest.)

He collapsed outside of the police corden, according to witnesses, which clashes with the "he was a victim of the kettles" claims. But he did appear to have blood on his face, which doesn't match up with the reports that he'd had no external injuries.

And as for the bottle-throwing, several posters on here said they witnessed it. Though they've said it happened after the bloke collapsed, when the police in riot gear closed in round him - it was just a few plastic bottles, and the bottle-throwing stopped when the protesters with a better view screamed at the others to stop.

You should also investigate the events which occurred immediately before the man's first collapse.


I agree...

a man died in a police kettle. photos, witness reports, and main stream news reports to back it up.
no one denys a man died in a police kettle.
witnesses report seeing him hit with a baton. theirs a chance they could be lying or exaggerated.
but a man did die. the police where wearing riot gear. photo evidence and witness statements support this.
the original police statements say plastic bottles where being thrown. fact.
my 11 year old sister can walk through a barrage of plastic bottles without a helmet on...
their not heavy/sharp or aerodynamic.
even if the police didn't batter this man they where holding, they could have walked to him easily. riot helmets are strong, defiantly strong enough to walk whilst having plastic bottles lobbed at you.
why he was their doesn't matter. its still an innocent man that has died. normal people have been caught up in police violence before. its a tragedy as big as any.
the police where acting as if he was a protester. he was kettled. when they decided to let him die, they decided to let a protester die. to them its just "collateral damage".

ultimately it doesn't matter what we think. nothing we do will bring back this mans life, but we can learn lessons.
-every activist should be first aid trained. action medics have a great site and offer great advise on protest first aid.
-when someone goes down, even if from seemingly natural causes it needs to be documented, so no tv station or paper can lie, and we all need to acknowledge that the media IS bias.
-people need to stick together more and ensure when someone does take a beating, no matter how small, someone goes up and just asks "are you ok." small things like offering water or snacks can save peoples lives, but at its worst, in makes a stronger movement, shows solidarity and you never know might even make you a new friend!
-looking after each other in general will help us build effective and strong movements. many people drop out of activism due to bad experiences, lack of support and because they have no friends in the movement.
our ethics must be applied to the hear and now just as they are to out politics.
i personally don't like Ghandi, but a good quote from him is "be the change you wish to see"

i think its disgraceful that this article has STILL not been amended. Its deeply offensive to the family to label the man as a protestor. This is absolutely poor ethics.
When implied, the author Jo just gives sarcasm and spin