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The “anti-terror” arrests in northwest England: what really lies behind them?

Julie Hyland | 15.04.2009 10:25 | G20 London Summit | Analysis | Repression | Terror War | Liverpool

One week after a series of high profile arrests, little evidence has come to light of plans for the mass terrorist atrocity that supposedly triggered the detentions.

Eleven of the 12 people rounded up on April 8—all males aged between 18 and 42 years of age—remain in custody. Under Britain’s draconian anti-terror laws terror suspects can be held for up to 28 days without charge. An 18-year-old youth, one of the 11 Pakistani nationals held, was released at the weekend, but handed over to immigration officials.

Security sources have stated that they expect few, if any, terror-related charges to result from the arrests. Raids on homes and premises in the northwest of England have so far failed to turn up any evidence of bombs, chemical explosives, weapons or ammunition. One senior security source was cited in the Guardian as stating that “nothing of huge significance” had been uncovered.

This is a far cry from the hysterical claims that originally attended the arrests. Then police sources claimed that they had thwarted a massive Al Qaeda-directed operation to launch large-scale suicide bomb attacks over the Easter holiday.

Citing information from MI6 operations targeted on Pakistan, anonymous security officials claimed there had been a high risk of an “imminent attack” that would cause “mass casualties.” Prime Minister Gordon Brown described the apparent terror plot as “very big.”

Such is the subsequent backpedalling over the alleged terrorist conspiracy that the Guardian stated, “A central mystery remains how counterterrorism officials could believe such a serious plot existed when they were unsure of seemingly basic elements of the alleged conspiracy, such as the targets.”

Indeed. The “evidence” now being presented for the existence of a terror threat appears to centre on reports that several of those detained—most of whom were in the UK on student visas—had been seen taking photographs near a Manchester shopping centre and other public venues. This behaviour, it is argued, is consistent with terrorist reconnaissance. A surveillance team also reportedly heard discussions about certain dates over the Easter holiday, prompting the arrests.

But relatives and neighbours have refuted such claims. The majority of those arrested were students living in some of the poorest areas of Merseyside. One neighbour described how several of those detained had recently staged an impromptu street celebration during heavy snowfall, playing Hindi music, dancing and encouraging others to join in. “I never had suspicions about them,” she said. “They were jolly guys, not aggressive and never any trouble.”

The father of one of those held, speaking to the media from his home in Peshawar, said his son was in his third year of computer studies in Manchester, on a visa valid until next September. “We have done nothing wrong. We have nothing to hide,” the father stated, calling offensive the lurid press accounts of his son’s alleged terror-related activities.

The uncle of another man told the Guardian that the family regularly made financial contributions to help his nephew fund his education. “He was too ambitious about his life and his studies. He was not up to any mischief. So I say to the UK government, please don’t spoil his future,” he pleaded.
Sweeping police powers

It is not the first time that warnings of an imminent terrorist catastrophe, accompanied by mass arrests, have failed to live up to their claims.

In the years since 9/11 more than 1,000 people have been arrested under anti-terrorism laws, of which less than 50 have been convicted.

So sweeping are the anti-terrorism powers that people have been detained on the flimsiest of pretexts. Earlier this month, five people in Plymouth were detained under the Terrorism Act after a young man was seen spraying graffiti. “Political literature” was reportedly found in one of the homes raided and it was claimed at the time that the five had been planning to join the G20 protests in London. Held for several days, they were all released without charge.

All the while, the hysterical atmosphere generated by such arrests has been used to further strengthen police powers and undermine democratic rights. The brutal shooting of innocent Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes in July 2005 by undercover anti-terrorist officers exposed that police had covertly adopted a shoot-to-kill policy. Less than one year later another innocent man, Mohammed Abdul Kahar, was shot by anti-terror police in a raid on his home.

In the latest sweep, Muhammad Adil, a 27-year-old Pakistani student, told how he had been eating lunch outside Liverpool John Moores University when he and a friend were surrounded by armed officers.

Special forces with telescopic machine guns instructed them to raise their hands, and forced them to the floor. Adil’s hands were tied behind his back as he lay on the ground for one hour, while police kept their guns trained on him. Taken to a police station, he was released after several hours without charge.

Simultaneously, police were carrying out similarly spectacular arrests in other locations, starting at the 5 p.m. rush-hour.

Two people were detained while working as security guards at a DIY store. A worker at the store told how 80 officers had swooped on the building, and armed police had rushed into the shop, emerging 10 minutes later with the two men.

In the Wavertree district of Liverpool, residents described how unmarked black cars had sped down the street, stopping outside a flat, and a number of men wearing black combat gear had stormed the building. Three men were brought out handcuffed from the building. In a residential area in Manchester, meanwhile, a woman told how she had heard a lot of noise and opened her door to see “four or five policemen were on top of a man. They were dragging him along the street and he had no shoes on. They shouted at me ‘get inside, get inside’. There was a policeman on each corner of the street, with machine guns.”
The G20 protests

It looks increasingly likely that the lack of evidence of terror-related activities in the latest arrests will be attributed to the fact that the police operation had to be moved forward at the last moment.

Police have already claimed that the arrests were scheduled for 2 a.m. Thursday morning, but this was hurriedly changed after Assistant Commissioner Bob Quick of the Metropolitan Police was photographed the previous day entering Downing Street.

In full view of the cameras, Quick carried a briefing paper—marked top secret—with details of the intended raids. The government had issued a “D” notice preventing publication of the photograph, but concerned that it would be published on the Internet, hundreds of police officers were quickly scrambled for the northwest raids. Quick resigned the following day.

Quick’s “gaffe” is now being blamed for compromising an otherwise promising operation.

Just why Britain’s senior anti-terror officer was seemingly unaware that he was broadcasting details of a major police operation to the media is just one of many unanswered questions.

The Times speculated April 14 that indications that no terror charges would ultimately be laid against those arrested posed “questions about how real this threat was and whether the police were trying to cover their embarrassment over Mr. Quick.”

More pertinently, it should be noted that warnings of imminent suicide bombings on a major city came just as the government and Metropolitan Police faced mounting condemnation of police actions during the G20 summit of world leaders in London, which ended April 3.

During the protests, more than 200 people were arrested, houses were raided, and thousands of people detained for hours by police in London side streets in a practice known as “kettling.”

On April 1, Ian Tomlinson—who was making his way home from work—died in one of the side streets. At the time, it was claimed that his death was from natural causes, and unrelated to police measures to contain the protestors. (See “Britain: Evidence of fatal police assault at G20 demonstration” )

But on the evening of April 7, the Guardian released video footage showing how Tomlinson had been brutally struck from behind by a riot officer, causing him to fall and hit his head on the ground. He died minutes later.

The footage exposed the degree to which police, in collusion with the Independent Police Complaints Commission, had sought to cover over allegations of police brutality during the demonstrations, and fuelled demands for an independent inquiry.

Less than 24 hours later, Britain was faced with another alleged terrorist plot and civil liberties were under further attack.

At the weekend, it was announced that plainclothes, armed police units are to be deployed on the streets of Scotland for the first time.

No official statement, let alone discussion, accompanied this unprecedented move. But the Scotsman newspaper editorialised in support of the deployment, citing the alleged northwest terror plot, which it said could have led to “blood and suffering” on the streets of Manchester.

“As we assess our readiness against a terror attack we must also decide what concessions we are willing to make in our day-to-day liberties. To say we will surrender none is unreasonable,” it claimed.

Julie Hyland
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Hide the following 16 comments

Bomb Squad in Desperate Race to Save Jacqui Smith's Job

15.04.2009 11:33

The great "Easter Terror Campaign" scare launched by New Labour has been in desperate need of new impetus, given the failure to find any evidence of a terrorist operation. Fortunately police were able to stage an Army Bomb Squad raid on a flat in Liverpool yesterday to give the right wing press a chance to revive the story.

The peculiar thing is that the address raided had been under search and cordoned off for 120 hours before the bomb squad were called in. Indeed, last Wednesday 50 (yes, 50) policemen swooped on the flat and searched it for six hours. It is therefore remarkable that the "Bomb" wasn't found for a further five days.

The official description of the Bomb Squad raid was "precautionary".

That is "Precautionary" in the sense of "Publicity stunt". What the mainstream media fail to report is that the bomb squad experts were able to tell the police that the suspicious substance was - table sugar. Whether cane or beet, doubtless intense forensic examination will tell us.

The United Kingdom is in breach of international law by refusing to allow the Pakistani High Commission consular access to check on the welfare of its nationals who are being held - and none of whom has been charged with any crime. They have even refused to give them a full list of names.

This kind of behaviour will backfire on British nationals who are arrested and held abroad. Our requests for access will be refused and our protestations - which I made in several cases - will be thrown back in our faces. New Labour's participation in the continual erosion of the fabric of international law is the real story here.

Craig Murray
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New Labour Nazi Party

15.04.2009 14:18

It is with constant amusement (of the saddest kind) that one reads commentary about the UK from people that still suckle on the output from the BBC and UK press. Tony Blair has taken the Britain to the darkest place possible, and activists on sites like this are still in a case of complete denial.

Faced with 'difficulty' over their psychopathic 'policing' of the G20 protests, Blair's people did not hesitate for one second to set up a bunch of Pakistani 'patsies'- after all the Holocaust of Pakistan is Obama's stated primary objective (Pakistan is the only Muslim nation with a nuclear arsenal, and the vile, genocidal racist state of Israel has stated that this makes Pakistan their preferred target).

Blair has modified his technique to match that used in the USA in the aftermath of the 9/11 false-flag (for those of you moronic enough to believe in Blair's fairy-tale about the events of 9/11, scientists have now identified the weaponised thermite used in the demolition, just as the anthrax was traced back to weaponised varieties produced at an American government bio-weapons facility). So, just as American officials rounded up tens of thousands of non-citizen Muslims, Blair has targeted non-British Pakistanis.

The advantage of doing this is that Blair can have these people deported, and then have his vile zionist media outlets (eg., the BBC, ITN, Guardian, Independent, etc) state that there is "no smoke without fire". Better, when the deported individuals are not arrested in Pakistan, Blair can declare that the country of Pakistan is now unable to deal with 'terrorists' and must be taken out.

In truth, Blair doesn't care whether he aids Obama to exterminate Iran or Pakistan (or yet another nation) first- so long as American forces engage in a war of extermination of a far greater ferocity than anything yet seen in Iraq or Afghanistan. Israel will cheer the Holocaust of any Muslim nation (as we all well know) and thus ensure that Obama has maximum support from the US Congress.

Blair is poised to become the first permanent president of the EU (after having personally overseen the Holocaust in Gaza). The project to merge all the leadership bodies of the Conservative and New Labour Nazi parties is complete, largely assisted with the use of Common Purpose. Blair is able to announce policies today that will be carried out regardless of whether the idiots in the UK next elect a 'Conservative' or 'Labour' government, including National Service.

When the school-leaving age is raised to 18 in little over a year, and National Service is introduced at the same time, home-schooling will be made illegal. While most of you are foolish enough to think this change will make little difference, home-schooling would have been an option taken up by many after 16. Blair intends mass criminalisation of 16,17, and 18 year olds who attempt to avoid his indoctrination centres. Hundreds of thousands of British families will be subject to massive fines, and tens of thousands of young people will be imprisoned in Blair's detention centres, when they resist Blair's coming changes.

Of course, initially Blair will state that National Service will include doing something 'green' so all the New Labour Nazi shills on places like Indymedia (including many of the moderators) can tell you that such compulsion is a 'good' thing. The same shills will also try to tell you that you can vote against such a change at the next phoney national election, but I give you a 100% promise that any other party that can possibly 'win' will continue Blair's policies to the letter, just as Obama is continuing every significant policy of Bush's.

With the hilariously laughable crudeness of Blair's MI5 psychopath 'accidentally'-on-purpose holding the document face outwards for Blair's zionist press to 'accidentally'-on-purpose photograph and reproduce for all the sheep to see, one can see that Blair acts with a boldness that shows he knows his opposition has no intellectual bravery or moral courage. Blair merely needs his shills to dribble on about 'fat-prat' Gordon Brown, and 'stupid-cow' Jacqui Smith, and Blair knows that even his rebellious sheep are too busy sniggering to engage their brain-cells.

Meanwhile, Blair got to label every non-citizen Pakistani in the UK as a 'terrorist' and massively increase the British police-state once again. Blair's shills will try to tell you you've heard this all before over Iran, but the only question is where we are today versus yesterday, and where we will be tomorrow versus today. Blair's momentum and therefore his power grows daily, a fact that none of you can deny. If he, and the people he runs with, have not been able to start a major war since Afghanistan (although Blair was the direct cause of the wars in Georgia and Gaza), it is only because we, in some sense, have proven more difficult to manipulate. However, Blair's power grows daily, whereas our ability to resist noticeably diminishes. The shills scream, at the top of their voices "it hasn't happened yet, so it will never happen", all the while screaming their foul demonisation of potential target Muslim nations. Scholars of history will recognise this as the tactic of Nazi propagandists in the run up to World War II.

Tomorrow will be worse than today


15.04.2009 15:39

The words "Gate" and "Forest" sprung to mind as soon as I heard about this. Can't think why.

Meantime, we await news of the "specialist equipment" allegedly found in Nottingham when 114 people were arrested on Monday, and many homes raided subsequently.


UK “Terror Plot”: Gordon Brown points finger at Pakistan

15.04.2009 19:29

Guardian, 10 April 2009
Guardian, 10 April 2009

Daily Telegraph, 10 April 2009
Daily Telegraph, 10 April 2009

Times, 10 April 2009
Times, 10 April 2009

Daily Mail, 10 April 2009
Daily Mail, 10 April 2009

Daily Mirror, 10 April 2009
Daily Mirror, 10 April 2009

Daily Star, 10 April 2009
Daily Star, 10 April 2009

Sun, 11 April 2009
Sun, 11 April 2009

Now that the UK Defense Minister has publicly announced Britain’s engagement in Obama’s “Af-Pak War” [1], it is hardly surprising that the latest wave of relentless false-flag terrorism propaganda by the British government and media specifically target Pakistani citizens living in the UK.

Just a day before the “Easter Plot”, the “civilian” Prime Minister of Pakistan went as far as saying “give us the drones and missiles that will allow us to take care of this problem on our own”; meaning the Pakistani Armed Forces’ extermination of its own people who resist the imperialist invasion of their country. [2]


1) The new enemy within is invisible (Daily Telegraph)
2) Students of terror (Daily Mail)
3) Terror plot: universities seen as safe havens (Daily Telegraph)
4) Scramble to find the Easter bomb factory (Times)
5) Al-Qaeda terror plot to bomb Easter shoppers (Daily Telegraph)
6) Terror plot to blow up top footie grounds (Daily Star)
7) Student visa link to terror raids as Gordon Brown points finger at Pakistan (Guardian)
8) UK and Pakistan to work together against terrorism


from the archives:

1) Zardari: ‘Give us the drones and we will take out the militants ourselves’
2) UK backs Pakistan offensive
3) UK Interior Minister: The threat of a chemical or nuclear attack is now more real
4) British tabloid press: Britain is now harbouring a menacing enemy within


excerpts from: The new enemy within is invisible

by Con Coughlin, Daily Telegraph, 10 April 2009

Within Britain’s counter-terrorism community they are known as the “clean skins”: highly trained, professional killers whose blameless backgrounds provide not the slightest clue as to their true, evil intent.

The phenomenon was first identified during the bloody 30-year campaign the IRA waged against the British Isles. [...]

Now it appears that the “clean skins” may be back, this time in Islamist form. That is the logical conclusion to be drawn from the latest operation in which anti-terror police detained […]

11 Pakistani-born nationals who had entered Britain on student visas (and one British national), which suggest that al-Qaeda might now be attempting to effect a radical transformation in its tactics.


excerpt from: Students of terror

leading article, Daily Mail, 10 April 2009

Every year, some 10,000 Pakistanis arrive here on student visas. Ministers have virtually no means of knowing how many are dangerous radicals, and how many genuine seekers after knowledge.


Terror plot: universities seen as safe havens

Wednesday’s arrests were a deeply disturbing reminder that Britain remains the prime target of Islamist terrorists in the West.

by Anthony Glees, Daily Telegraph, 10 April 2009


excerpt from: Scramble to find the Easter bomb factory

by Sean O’Neill, Andrew Norfolk, Russell Jenkins and Michael Evans, Times, 10 April 2009

A desperate search was under way last night for the terrorist bomb factory from which a suspected al-Qaeda cell planned to launch a devastating attack in Manchester.


Al-Qaeda terror plot to bomb Easter shoppers

An al-Qaeda cell was days away from carrying out an “Easter spectacular” of co-ordinated suicide bomb attacks on shopping centres in Manchester, police believe

by Duncan Gardham, Daily Telegraph, 10 April 2009


Terror plot to blow up top footie grounds

Fears were growing over a bomb threat to last night’s Euro cup clash as police foiled a “major” terrorist attack.

by Bill Martin, Daily Star, 9 April 2009


Student visa link to terror raids as Gordon Brown points finger at Pakistan

Gordon Brown: police foiled ‘very big terrorist plot’

by Sandra Laville, Richard Norton-Taylor and Vikram Dodd, Guardian, 10 April 2009


excerpt from: UK and Pakistan to work together against terrorism

Number10 (website of the UK Prime Minister’s Office), 10 April 2009

“I think one important part of this that has got to be recognised is that increasingly we have seen terrorist links with Pakistan and Britain. […] I think one of the lessons we are learning from the events of the past few years is that Pakistan has got to do more to root out the terrorist elements in its country as well.”

[UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown, 9 April 2009] [1]



UK backs Pakistan offensive

Defence secretary insists Britain has to back American plans to hunt down al-Qaida leaders across the Afghan border

by Mark Townsend, Observer, 29 March 2009

Britain has offered its full backing for a renewed military offensive inside Pakistan, as UK ministers confirmed the country was now “part of a single campaign” alongside Afghanistan. […]

Confirming that Britain was being drawn into a widening regional conflict, Hutton said the time had come to target Taliban and al-Qaida havens inside Pakistan. In his most explicit statement of intent against Afghanistan’s troubled neighbour, Hutton said that the military objectives in the region must now have “an equal focus on both countries”.


UK Interior Minister: The threat of a chemical or nuclear attack is now more real

Dandelion Salad, 25 March 2009


British tabloid press: Britain is now harbouring a menacing enemy within

Indymedia UK, 13 March 2009


dandelion salad
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Twilight's back is he?

15.04.2009 20:59

'Scientists have now identified the weaponised thermite used in the demolition'

If by scientists you mean discredited academics like Professor Steven 'Jesus visited ancient America' Jones and by 'thermite' you mean some paint chips (they clearly failed in their piss poor efforts to prove it was not paint), all of it illustrated in an article they had to pay for in a unknown 'vanity' journal, then you might have a point.

As it is, such a statement is merely laughable, though no doubt credulous truthers will continue to believe it.


Peer Rview

16.04.2009 00:05

From Prof Steven Jones (,
repost from

Since the days of Sir Isaac Newton, Science has proceeded through the publication of peer-reviewed papers. Peer-review means a thorough reading, commentary and even challenge before publication by "peers", that is, other PhD's and professors. This paper was thoroughly peer-reviewed with several pages of tough comments that required of our team MONTHS of additional experiments and studies. It was the toughest peer-review I've ever had, including THREE papers for which I was first author in NATURE. (Please note that Prof. Harrit is first author on this paper.) We sought an established journal that would allow us a LONG paper (this paper is 25 pages long) with MANY COLOR IMAGES AND GRAPHS. Such a scientific journal is not easy to find. Page charges are common for scientific journals these days, and are typically paid by the University of the first or second author (as is the case with this paper) or by an external grant.

A peer-reviewed journal is also called a "refereed" journal. Peer-reviewers are almost always anonymous for scientific publications like this -- that is standard in the scientific world. While authors commonly recommend potential peer-reviewers, editors choose the referees and usually pick at least one or two reviewers that the authors did NOT mention -- and that is almost certainly the case with this paper (based on commentary we received from the reviewers). In the end, all the reviewers -- who were selected by the editor(s) -- approved publication. Thus, the paper was subjected to peer review by the editor or editors, and it passed the peer-review process.

Debunkers may raise all sorts of objections on forums, such as "Oh, it's just paint" or "the aluminum is bound up in kaolin." We have answered those questions in the paper, and shown them to be nonsense, but you have to read to find the answers. I may also provide answers here and in emails, often quoting from the paper to show that the answers are already in it.


So how do you, as a non-scientist, discern whether the arguments are valid or not? You should first ask, "is the objection PUBLISHED in an ESTABLISHED PEER-REVIEWED JOURNAL?" If not, you can and should say -- "I will wait to see this formally published in a refereed scientific journal. Until then, the published peer-reviewed work by Harrit et al. stands. "

BTW, there also has been no PUBLISHED REFEREED paper yet that counters either the "Fourteen Points" paper ( the "Environmental Anomalies" papers ( we published last year.

IF it is so easy to publish in Bentham Scientific journals, or if these are "vanity publications" (note: there is no factual basis for these charges) -- then why don't the objectors write up their objections and get them peer-reviewed and published?? The fact is, it is not easy, as serious objectors will find out.

Our results have passed the gauntlet of peer-review (including in this case, review at BYU consistent with the fact that there are two authors from BYU).

We say that this paper has the "imprimatur of peer-review". That is a significant breakthrough. You cannot say that of big-foot or Elvis sightings... We are now in a different world from such things, the world of the published scientific community. CAN YOU APPRECIATE THE DIFFERENCE? I hope so. And this is what has our opponents so worried IMO...

So because Prof Jones is mormon he's wrong? Is that your contention? Isn't that the same kind of argument used against Freud by the Nazis?

And then you recommend we browse to JREF filled with fascists jumping up and down with their hands covering their ears and repeating over and over the same kind of crap being posted by Mr Tank Skeptic Tank that is.

This is peer reviewed science BYU and the Niels Bohr Institute both involved.

So Skeptic write your paper and get it peer reviewed on Bentham, I mean its quite trendy, Harvard and MIT both have approved open source publishing now. Have a go Skeptic, I know where there's some dust, you just need facilities like those at BYU and the Niels Bhor Institute.

Shut up and get peer reviewed.


@Tomorrow will be worse than today

16.04.2009 12:53

You say that "activists on sites like this" are still in "complete denial" - possibly you have the wrong website? There is plenty of disagreement here, but perhaps less denial than you think. Indymedia, for all its shortcomings, is certainly not full of "New Labour Nazi shills", and nor would I believe that most people here would be in favour of compulsory national service. In fact, I think many here would see it as an opportunity for the state to inculcate nationalist tendencies designed to water down scepticism over our continuing violent adventures abroad.

That you believe that even the moderators here ("IMCistas") would wholeheartedly endorse voting as a mechanism to institute change proves that you are a stranger to IMCUK. The political flavour here is generally anarchist, although the reporting perspective ranges from progressive through to communist. Few voices here will endorse "democracy" as it stands as much as you seem to think.

Your referring to much of the media as "Zionist" is overly simplistic, to my mind, although there is often a bias in favour of Israel for rather mundane reasons. One difficulty for example, in the capitalist press, is that criticism of Israel is more expensive to deal with than criticism of Palestine. This is because, for a variety of reasons, the Israeli lobby is much more organised at complaining, and so fielding complaints takes more time. There are many other factors to take into account, and they often come down to money factors; the political bias of the owners is not always the full picture. Media Lens ( is a good read for this, as is Noam Chomsky (book: "Manufacturing Consent").

Meanwhile there are a great deal of politically illiterate people, but it is a mistake to assume that you are always more politically savvy than the readers of wherever you post. In the same vein, you will not win converts to your particular position if you openly regard your interlocutors as stupid.


baa baa humbug ..

17.04.2009 13:07

This is what it is.
This is what it is.

Given the behaviour of the charity commission; the readyness of the BBC trust to bow to the Zionist federation of Britain; the deft tactic of smear employed against Viva Palestina by the imagined politically neutral police; the deafening silence of the media towards the continual and ongoing slaughter of Gaza and its origins within the OPENLY racist tenants of both religious and non religious factions within israel and the OPENLY stated obsequiousness of our own political factions towards the necessity of belonging[sic] to a 'friends of israel' group in seeking advancement up the greasy pole ... it is crushingly obvious that the 'zionisation' of GB is all but compleat.

Given aso the instant and hysterical response here and at what is left of the politically active internet towards acceptance that this is the case, any suggestion otherwise is mute at best, absurd always and anyway deeply worrisome.

Skeptic old bean - although it is good to see that you are still attempting to plug the gaps here (and I hope you are in good health for your workload will be increasing over the next few months), you have just had your ass handed to you on the matter of what constitutes peer review etc. It would be nice if you could flesh out your considerable scientific objections[sic] to this very important milestone in the fight for both truth and justice regarding that false flag event.

I notice also, that this little gem has been overlooked in your wide-ranging[sic] analysis and dismissal of the war on terra:

... "just as the anthrax was traced back to weaponised varieties produced at an American government bio-weapons facility" ...

What possible 'harmless' explanation could suffice to draw attention away from the obvious notion of culpabilty on the parts of the authorities here?

Activists still turn up in droves expecting their singing and dancing on marches - perhaps even ther raised and angry voices - to make the difference and are encouraged to believe so by organisations set to specifically decieve them so. It still depresses me that the follow up to their oppression (second only to their marginalisation) compleats the rout by dint of the shrill useless disbelief that 'it happened here'.

Those that ignore the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. It will take BLOOD SWEAT and TEARS to change things, just like at every turn in history where it became necessary. Our youth, our protestors do not seem up to the task, so tweely lead us up the garden path ...

... of course there maybe alternatives, but they will be very alternative and possibly impossible! You want to live free? Then supply your own energy, your own food, your own support systems and hope you are not disturbed by paramilitary policing and intrusive fascistic beaurocracy.

Otherwise gird your loins for a brutal bloody and potentially fatal fight. Or give up now and stand out the way.


Terror raids unearth huge amount of bullshit

17.04.2009 21:35

A house raid in Manchester under the Terrorism Act, 9 April 2009
A house raid in Manchester under the Terrorism Act, 9 April 2009

POLICE raids on suspected terrorists have uncovered a potentially lethal stockpile of bullshit, it emerged last night.

According to security sources, police raids in Manchester, Liverpool and Clitheroe have so far yielded eight packets of crisps, some beard shampoo and a foreign looking hat.

A senior police source said: "Put the crisps in the hat, add some shampoo, give it a good shake and what have you got? Unimaginable carnage, that's what you've got.

"They were definitely planning to blow themselves up in the middle of the Arndale Centre, or the Trafford Centre, or the railway station, or St Ann's Square, or any one of the 200 pubs and clubs in central Manchester, or the airport, or in the middle of the M6. We're absolutely sure about that."

Sources said the raids had been brought forward while claiming the planned attacks were almost certainly due to be carried out today or tomorrow.

A source added: "We like to leave things to the last possible moment. Makes it a bit more like Spooks. If only we could discover a nuclear bomb that had a digital timer on it with just 10 seconds left. I'd love that."

Meanwhile a loophole which allows thousands of angry, bearded Pakistanis to enter Britain without background checks was doing its job very nicely indeed, the immigration minister told sources last night.

A source close to Phil Woolas said: "We let in just enough of them to keep you nice and scared, wait until they take a photograph of something and then arrest them at gunpoint."

Prime minister Gordon Brown last night claimed personal responsibility for both the surveillance operation and the arrests while a source stood behind him shaking his head and waving his hands.

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I know what a peer reviewed journal is

18.04.2009 10:26

I have published in them (and I did not have to pay a fee either and as I was not working at University at the time, any charges would have come to me as an individual - none did, reputable journals do not charge)

There were plenty of criticisms of Bentham's Open Source Journals before the travesty of the latest Steven Jones paper appeared. Don't believe me, read some of these:

So, in short Bentham already had a reputation for recruiting 'peers' from random academics who had no expertise whatsover in the fields that they were asking to be peers for.

The paper itself is riddled with errors, the paint sample used is not properly sourced (though Jones has subsequently admitted online that it was a paint source from BYU), he did not test against the specific, paint/primer used at the World Trade Centre itself, so in short he has not ruled out paint as the source of his chips.

Moreover, he states: 'The DSC tests were conducted with a linear heating rate of 10 °C per minute up to a temperature of 700 °C. During heating, the samples were contained in alumina pans and air was allowed to flow at 55 milliliters per minute during the heating' (Jones paper, Page 10, left column, lines 3-10)

So the experiment was not conducted in an inert gas, as would be expected. It was conducted in an environment with enough air to burn anything burnable - he has not therefore proved that the substance in question was thermite.

This travesty of a paper is even taking flak from scientists who are themselves truthers:

So much so that Dr Greening has been asked to 'stop throwing grenades'

You can continue to defend this paper as much as you want, but for many it has no credibility whatsoever.



18.04.2009 11:15

I like you skeptic. Unlike so many others here, you put some effort into your positions and do not indulge in silly name calling and so, although I do not agree with much of what you say, I respect it.

This last statement from you I find the most revealing:

"but for many it has no credibility whatsoever"

That is the crux of the matter isn't it? For all the back and forth about sources, peer review etc, our individual positions are formulated on the backs of what we believe.

I believe that 911 fits the pattern of false flag neo-con wars on terra and therefore seek and champion evidence that supports that. You perhaps do not believe that and seek evidence to the contrary.

So be it.

Could you then point us towards any peer reviewed (yes, I and others maintain that this paper is peer reviewed - by any credible interpretation) info that supports the suspension of known physical laws and allows us to believe in the fantasy of coincidental disney-esq "they did it cause they hate our freedoms" kerosene inspired steel meltdowns?

Until such time as the continual absense of theories - that include ALL the facts and avoids contradicting common sense and scientific understanding - is corrected, I will not bend to the desire of a rapacious military industrial complex (that is predicated on finding or manufacturing convienient enemies) for me to endorse their genocidal war of revenge against those brown skinned people who had the temerity to build their ancient civilizations over our resources.

I will now spend as much time as is necessary reviewing your links etc.


Science & Religion - What's the difference?

18.04.2009 11:50

Take your scientific shit to some peer-review site and leave it there.

Your hierarchical junk is of no interest to the rest of us.

Worship at the altar of god or at the lab of science...

Skeptic's disinformation and Smear campaign

18.04.2009 16:19


You cite 8 links you claim put into question the peer review process at Bentham. What they in-fact show is that when Bentham initially began they over ambitiously said they were creating 300 journals later dropped to 200 and currently around 190 journals.
None of the links criticise the peer review process, only the way Bentham spammed for editors and peer reviewers and how errors were made in that process. The peer review in the case of this paper was carried out by BUY, a member Niels Bohr Institute and other reviewers selected by the editors. Therefore your smear in the face of this Scientific reality appears to be a deliberate attempt at disinformation, in that you imply that the peer review process at Bentham is flawed when in-fact the use of spam in an effort to recruit editors and reviewers early in the project was what concerned the authors of the posts and articles in your links.

As for Greening and whoever, I say again, shut up and get peer reviewed.

As for the difference between Religion and Science, well as it's so cool to be ignorant these day, its obviously actively encouraged, at a time when we need to pool our Kollective intelligence in the face of the shit we're faced with as a species. So get clued up because wilful ignorance brings you no bliss.



18.04.2009 18:37

.... having extensively reviewed the links provided by skeptic, I can concur with 2% Human that the criticism implied is centered firmly around the process of seeking 'market share' and absolutey not around the issue of the varacity of the infomation, nor the process by which such information has been aduced.

Yet again skeptic seeks to mislead you.

This is no suprise, for it seems to be his thankless task to stick his dubious finger in whatever dyke that is in danger of collapse.

Until such time that [he] offers up a serious science based objection that has been as rigorously tested as Prof. Jones, steer clear.

[he] is good at what he does, lets give him that - perhaps it may even be his calling to impart just enough 'reasonable doubt' to falstall the obvious and inevitable conclusion of collusion by the military industrial complex and the cognative dissonance that this will produce should it ever be absorbed by a public mostly unwilling to look at their own part in such a disgusting spectacle.

Mass murder it was, done in 'our' name.

Shame ... and revenge due.



18.04.2009 18:38

.... having extensively reviewed the links provided by skeptic, I can concur with 2% Human that the criticism implied is centered firmly around the process of seeking 'market share' and absolutey not around the issue of the varacity of the infomation, nor the process by which such information has been aduced.

Yet again skeptic seeks to mislead you.

This is no suprise, for it seems to be his thankless task to stick his dubious finger in whatever dyke that is in danger of collapse.

Until such time that [he] offers up a serious science based objection that has been as rigorously tested as Prof. Jones, steer clear.

[he] is good at what he does, lets give him that - perhaps it may even be his calling to impart just enough 'reasonable doubt' to falstall the obvious and inevitable conclusion of collusion by the military industrial complex and the cognative dissonance that this will produce should it ever be absorbed by a public mostly unwilling to look at their own part in such a disgusting spectacle.

Mass murder it was, done in 'our' name.

Shame ... and revenge due.



18.04.2009 18:42

.... having extensively reviewed the links provided by skeptic, I can concur with 2% Human that the criticism implied is centered firmly around the process of seeking 'market share' and absolutey not around the issue of the varacity of the infomation, nor the process by which such information has been aduced.

Yet again skeptic seeks to mislead you.

This is no suprise, for it seems to be his thankless task to stick his dubious finger in whatever dyke that is in danger of collapse.

Until such time that [he] offers up a serious science based objection that has been as rigorously tested as Prof. Jones, steer clear.

[he] is good at what he does, lets give him that - perhaps it may even be his calling to impart just enough 'reasonable doubt' to falstall the obvious and inevitable conclusion of collusion by the military industrial complex and the cognative dissonance that this will produce should it ever be absorbed by a public mostly unwilling to look at their own part in such a disgusting spectacle.

Mass murder it was, done in 'our' name.

Shame ... and revenge due.


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