The facts about uprising of the Iranian people against brutal and anti-women Islamic rules.

1. Majority of people in Iran are seeking the real change.
2. They seek better life with no fear of Islamic rules, the rules that oppresses women and the main enemy of civil liberty and civil right.
3. Islamic regime during the last 30 years has executed more than 100,000 Left activist and freedom lovers and thousand women been killed by stoning in public.
4. Election and its fraudulence result is just a tool to show people’s anger against the whole tyrant and barbaric Islamic regime.
5. If youth and people do not rise their own flag, the flag of revolution to change the whole regime, their 30 years of struggle against political islam, their daily fight and their energy will be hijacked by one wing of the regime.
6. People’s demand are: Secularism, Freedom with no conditions, free all political prisoners, equal right for women, End the forced hejab law, freedom of organisation for workers.
7. People should change their slogan to [ down to the Islamic regime] [ no to hejab ] [ freedom and social justice] [ full employment and rise of minimum wage]

Long live Freedom, Long live equality , down to Islamic rules , long live civil liberty and civil right

There is a daily struggle by workers and progressive activist for recognition of the Workers rights,– Justice for Iranian workers – to include the human rights of all Iranians who have been deprived of their rights.

 http://www.workers-iran.org/

>3. Islamic regime during the last 30 years has executed more than 100,000 Left activist and freedom lovers and thousand women been killed by stoning in public.

Funny, I thought you said 200,000. Oh, wait, you did.
 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/06/432924.html?c=on#c226526

I asked you for a breakdown of the 200,000 executions and you never replied. Now that 100,000 victims have suddenly been found safe and well, can you give me a breakdown of that 100,000. Because as far as Amnesty and everyone else is concerned, less than 200 people are executed in Iran every year.

does it matter? people are still dead. mind you, danny keeps on telling us 'millions' died in iraq.

>does it matter? people are still dead.

I see a big difference in 200,000 dead and 200 dead, it matters even more to the 199,800 people in question. It is the difference between reporting and propagandising. Accurate body counts are obviously important on a newswire. At least that should be obvious, I don't even know how to begin to explain that to you if it isn't.

>mind you, danny keeps on telling us 'millions' died in iraq.

I do? Where? That's one misrepresentation I don't actually mind. Putting millions in inverted commas suggest you think it was a much lower figure, so what is your estimation and how did you arrive at it? I'd guess certainly more than one million, probably less than two and a half, and I base that on the Lancet study.

When I first challenged the 200,000 executed Iranians repeated here over and over, I asked for a breakdown of the figures, since it is estimating more dead in a year than actually died over the 30 years of the regime. One plausible explanation would have been to attribute the 'human wave' deaths when Saddam invaded. But no, it's just a huge, manipulative, political lie. That sort of tactic only dimishes the true injustice of Iranian executions.

any advance on two and a half ,,, no?... going, going, gone to the man in the tin foil hat at two and a half.

and this from the man who says 'Accurate body counts are obviously important on a newswire. At least that should be obvious, I don't even know how to begin to explain that to you if it isn't.'

snortle

I did ask for your estimate of the Iraqi dead. I explained my evidence, I explained the importance. It's not a difficult question, what is the Iraqi body count in your opinion? Even if you can't explain your reasoning, what do you consider a probable number?

Wikipedia -  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War - gives various sets of figures, the lowest being 91,000 and the highest 1,000,000. Given the divergency, yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice - the choice usually being one that suits your present political argument. Certainly that figure of 1,000,000 is very much an outlier.

Another interesting set of statistics appears here:
 http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.html.

They give Saddam's body count at two million. You can, no doubt, as with the figures above, dispute some of this. Certainly mass graves were found in Iraq.

On that basis, getting rid of Saddam may have resulted in fewer deaths.

If you are admitting the possibility of 1 million dead Iraqis since 2003, and I am guessing between 1 and 2.5 million, then I am perhaps overestimating by a factor of 250%. By estimating the number of Iranian executions since 1979 as 200,000 while the realitiy is likely to be closer to 6,000 then that is an overexaggeration of 3300%.

On Iraq, the Lancet study seems the most scientific to me, with the Iraq Body Count simply collating reported deaths in the media as opposed to actual deaths. The Lancet stated "We estimate that between March 18, 2003, and June, 2006, an additional 654,965 (392,979–942,636) Iraqis have died above what would have been expected on the basis of the pre-invasion crude mortality rate as a consequence of the coalition invasion. Of these deaths, we estimate that 601,027 (426,369–793,663) were due to violence." The authors later called their estimates 'conservative' and obviously the killing didn't stop in June 2006. I admit I have a tendency to extrapolate the 2003-2006 deaths and add them to the 500,000 deaths the UN estimated their previous 10 years of sanctions caused, plus the 200,000 Iraqi troops killed in what is now commonly known as 'the first Gulf War' over Kuwait, but I don't think my ballpark figure is ridiculous.

Now there is no way that Saddam Hussien killed nearly that many Iraqis even if you add in all the deaths from his British and American backed invasion of Iran, which at most led to 500,000 Iraqi deaths. You can only kill so many people from torture, it is a crime that should be punished with death but it is a lesser crime than launching a war of aggression because fewer people die. Saddam gassed, tortured and slaughtered his citizens like a disease but the US and UK cure was far more deadly.

It is good for Iranian and British folk to realise that, and to remember that the western governments fully equipped Saddam Hussien while blockading the Iranians during Saddams western-backed invasion of Iran. My point is that there were plenty of Iraqi exiles in the media urging the over throw of Saddam for reasons of cruelty to his own population. Some of them now regret that, some of the others were obvious propagandists in retrospect.

Right, so we should leave Hitler, Stalin, Mao, the Pol Pot, and all the rest of them alone, since war is more deadly. That war criminal Neville Chamberlain - first he shakes hands with Hitler and then he declares war!

'that the western governments fully equipped Saddam Hussien' WRONG AGAIN! Look at the composiion of the Iraqi armed forces in the Iranian War, and you'll find that 99% of the arms came from the bastion of freedom, the Communist Bloc.

"Look at the composiion of the Iraqi armed forces in the Iranian War, and you'll find that 99% of the arms came from the bastion of freedom, the Communist Bloc."

Not what it says on Wikipedia:

"During the war, Iraq was regarded by the West (and specifically the United States) as a counterbalance to post-revolutionary Iran. The support of Iraq took the form of technological aid, intelligence, the sale of dual-use and military equipment and satellite intelligence to Iraq. "
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War#Comparison_of_Iraqi_and_Iranian_military_strength

Are you sure you're not just making it up?

You could try this :  http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/iraqiarmedforces.cfm

Find me any British or American equipment in the list of tanks, aircraft, ships etc. In fact, NAME me any British or American offensive weapons used by the Iraqi Army.

SOVIET IMPERIALISM STINKS

Iraqi Army Equipment:
Main Battle Tanks: 2,600 ... 1,900 T-55/62 and PRC Type-59, 700 T-72

Reconnaissance vehicles: 400
Brdm-2, AML-60/90, EE-9 'Cascavel', EE-3 'Jararaca'

Armored Infantry Fighting Vehicles: 1,200
BMP 1/2

Armored Personnel Carriers: 1,800
BTR 50/60/152, OT 62/64, MTLB, YW-701, M-113A1/A2, EE-11 'Urutu'

Towed Artillery: 1,900
105mm (Including: M-56 pack)
122mm (Including: D-74; D-30; M-1938)
130mm (Including: M-46; Type 59-1)
155mm (Including: G-5; GHN-45; M-114)

Self-propelled Artillery: 200
122mm (2SI)
152mm (2S3)
155mm (Including M-109A1/A2; AUF-1 (GCT))

Multiple Rocket Launchers: 200
107mm
122mm (BM-21)
127mm (ASTROS II)
132mm (BM-13/16)
262mm ('Ababeel-100’)


Surface to Surface Missiles:
Launchers reported:
50 Free Rocket Over Ground (FROG)
6 'Scud'

(Possibly possess ‘al-Hussein’ also.)

Anti-Tank Guided Weapons (Numbers Unknown):
AT-3 'Sagger' (Including BRDM-2)
AT-4 'Spigot'
SS-11
'Milan'
High-subsonic Optically Teleguided (HOT) — includes: 100 VC-TH

Recoilless Launchers (Number Unknown):
73mm (SPG-9)
82mm (B-10)
107mm (B-11)

Helicopters: 164
Attack: 62
12 Mi-25
20 SA-319
10 SA-316
20 SA-342

Support: 102

20 SA-330-F, 30 B0-105, 10 Mi-6, 30 Mi-8, 12 Mi-17



NAVY

Missile Craft:
1 Soviet 'Osa I' Fast Patrol Craft with 4 SS-N-2A 'Styx' surface-to-surface missiles

Inshore Patrol Craft: 5 (All believed inoperable)
1 Soviet 'Bogomol' Fast Patrol Craft (Inshore); 1 other Fast patrol Craft (Inshore); 1 Patrol Craft (Inshore). Also: 80 boats.

Mine Warfare Craft: 3
Mine Countermeasures
1 Soviet 'Yevgenya,'
2 'Nestin' minesweeper (Inshore)

AIR FORCE

Total Personnel: 20,000
Total combat aircraft: 316 (no armed helicopters)


Aircraft:

Bombers: 6
H-6D, Tu-22

Fighter, Ground Attack: 130
Mig-23BN, 'Mirage' F1EQ5, Su-20, 40 Su-22 M, 2 Su-24 MK, 2 Su-25

Fighter: 180
18 F-7, 40 MiG-21, 50 MiG-23, 12 Mig-25, ,50 'Mirage' F-1EQ 10 MiG-29
,
Reconnaissance: 5
MiG-25

Tanker (numbers unknown):
Includes: 2 Il-76

Transport: (numbers unknown)
An-2
3 An-12
An-24
6 An-26
Il-76

Tr

Missiles:

Air-to-Surface include:
Am-39; AS-4; AS-5; AS-11; AS-9; AS-12; AS-30L; C-601

Air-to-Air include:
AA-2/6/7/8/10; R-530; R-550