Although I am critical of the way the French police have dealt with this it is worth stating for the record that a Vegan diet for a developing child is not healthy, a view I of course realise that will not be acceptable to some of the more extreme elements who read Indymedia but facts are facts.

A Vegan diet is borderline healthy for a fit fully developed adult (although not for a pregnant or nursing mother) and with extensive screening and vitamin supplements can be endured for an extended period of time. This however does not apply to the child in this occasion, the views of the Belgian doctor rely on an out of date examination and should not have been considered, the views of the French doctor are based on more recent information and are clearly more informed.

With careful planning, a vegetarian diet during pregnancy can provide all the necessary vitamins, minerals, protein, and other nutrients you need.

A body requires a little more protein during pregnancy, and this is easily provided by following a healthy, varied vegetarian diet. However, if you are vegetarian, you should take extra care to ensure you have an adequate intake of two nutrients that are particularly important during pregnancy - iron and calcium.

Good sources of iron include:

• pulses

• bread

• green vegetables

• fortified breakfast cereals

Try to have some food or drink containing vitamin C, such as a glass of fruit juice, with any iron-rich meals as this helps your body to absorb the iron. Avoid drinking tea with iron-rich foods as this reduces absorption.

If the iron level in the blood becomes low, a GP or midwife will advise to take iron supplements. The best sources of calcium are dairy foods, such as milk, cheese and yoghurt. Aim to have three servings per day. Skimmed and semi-skimmed milk contain as much calcium as whole milk. The Vegetarian Society is a good source of information about healthy vegetarian diets during pregnancy.

Whilst I have no doubt that you sincerely believe what you say and have our best interests at heart you are in fact wrong. I am a midwife (13 years) and have been vegan for 15 years. The vegan diet is perfectly healthy throughout pregnancy and lactation in fact studies at the Farm a vegan community is the US suggested that vegan women are at far less risk from PET than the omnivorous population. I would go urther than saying that the vegan diet is adequate I would say that in fact vegan women and children are in general healthier, are more likely to have adequate levels of vitamin C which helps to absorb iron which makes vegan women less likely to be anaemic. Vegans tend to be more knowledgeable about diet though I will concede to you that vegans can subsist on fags, beer and crisps but very few that I know seem to do this.
I will also concede that there could be a possibility of vitamin B12 deficiency in the vegan diet which can lead to nuerological symptoms and megaloblastic anaemia. It is currently recommended therefore that pregnant and lactating vegans and children take a supplement. I presume that in Severine's case that B12 levels would have been checked.
I can assure you that once you are through medical school and practicing as a doctor that the vegan diet will be the least of your worries. I would be far more concerned about the catastrophic rise in obesity, heart disease, diabetes, asthma etc.
Would any authority forcibly remove a child if:
The mother smoked?
Did not breastfeed?
Took the child to McDonalds?
Fed it chips, mars bars, crisps and aspartame laden drinks every day?
No of course not so this is discrimination pure and simple.
How many vegan children do you actually know because all the ones I have met are happy, lively and very healthy?
In fact as a third year student you will only just have started on the wards and will not have begun your obs and gynae yet and thus before you criticise something you are not familiar with as though you are an expert (you are not, give it another 10 years) maybe meet some of us and reserve your judgement until you have all the facts. The French doctor reportedly said that it was impossible for a vegan child to be healthy, this is absolute bollocks.
Of course when you are a doctor you must be honest and tell all your patients what you think and if you do not know anything about someone's diet then do some research. Of course there are unhealthy vegans who may need guidance but for goodness sake what about all the morons who feed their kids sugar, fat, additive, chemical laden crap? What about the multinationals who advertise junk food? Criticism of veganism in a society like ours is very misplaced.
It may also interest you to know that the vast majority of farm animals are laden with antibiotics, ridden with salmonella and that meat is merely a partially rotten corpse yummy!
Milk is again riddled with antibiotics and full of pus. If I had a child s/he would be brought up as vegan no debate.

Ms Sawyer,

Although I am sure you speak from a sense of conviction, the political wishes of individuals like you do not outweigh the clinical needs of a child. You clearly expect me to be impressed with your many years as a midwife, I am however I am not with your wish to see the possible health of a child compromised to make a political point. If you are Vegan, that's fine, that is your choice. This child has no choice, the mother is making the choice for no other reason than politics, the theoretical benefits of a Vegan diet are a long way from being proven while the health risks are well recognised, accepted by the majority of health professionals and peer reviewed. The is no reason to take the risk.

The human body has developed over millions of years and has a number of requirements, if you are a midwife I assume you are cognisant with some of them. A Vegan diet fails to address these needs unlike a Vegetarian one which is recognised for its benefits.

I will rise above the patronising attitude that a midwife of long standing has somehow a more detailed knowledge of this issue than a medical student such as myself, I would say we each posess knowledge not known by the other but as a point of reflection I offer the views of my father on this in an email he wrote to a friend of mine who was considering a Vegan lifestyle,

____________________________________________________________

"Have you ever watched an animal being butchered? Unless you have experienced it many times, I bet you would feel quite bad watching it, let alone doing it yourself. Watching the butchering of an animal certainly helps people understand the passion that animal rights groups have in promoting a strict vegan (plant-based) diet.

From a moral and ethical perspective, I really appreciate the reasons for being a strict vegan. In fact, if I knew that I could be healthy on such a diet, I believe that I would return to being a strict vegan. The reality is that as far as recorded history is concerned, there has never been a population of people in our world that has lived on a strict vegan diet for an entire lifespan. Some populations have eaten mostly plant foods, but to my knowledge, there has not been a single population that has been on a 100 percent plant-based diet.

Today, there are many organizations that use their books and literature to promote a 100 percent strict vegan diet for optimal health for everyone.

Well, my experiences with my own body and in providing health care to many people over the years have led me to believe that a long term, strict vegan diet is likely to lead to the development of nutritional deficiencies and significant health problems for most people. Whenever I have shared this view with people who are just getting started with and excited about a strict vegan diet, I am usually asked to consider specific people or communities that claim to thrive on a strict vegan diet, some for decades.

I believe that people can survive for many years on a strict vegan diet, but almost always with one or more significant health problems. And I believe that some people who are truly thriving without any health problems, and claim to have been strict vegans for many years usually eat some animal foods, even if it is a small amount. The fact is, you and I can never know with certainty what another person eats on a moment-to-moment basis. The only dietary regimen that you can know with absolute accuracy is your own. Even your dog or cat probably eat things that you don’t know about.

Note: If you have been on a 100 percent vegan diet for more than five years and do not have any health challenges, please know that it is not my intention to say that I think you are being dishonest about your diet. This paragraph refers to people I know who claim to have been strict vegans for many years, but who I know include small amounts of animal foods in their diets. I would appreciate hearing from people who have been strict vegans for five or more years and who are without health challenges via our contact form.

Getting back to the organizations that promote vegan diets, I had the opportunity a short while ago to spend several days with a person who used to work for one of them. This person told me that their organization's recommendation to eat a strict vegan diet is mainly to support their mission of preventing cruel treatment of animals. My guess is that organizations like this are well aware that more people will be persuaded to follow a strict vegan diet if they believe it is for their health than if it’s for the welfare of animals.

I respect animal rights groups that come right out and say that they are promoting a strict vegan diet for the welfare of animals. If you are going to choose to be a strict vegan to spare animals pain, even if this means that your health might suffer, I can respect your decision.

But let’s not confuse compassion for animals with striving to do what’s best for your health.

I believe that people who choose to be strict vegans for the welfare of animals need to consider this question: is promoting a 100 percent vegan diet for the welfare of animals a correct moral path if it leads to significant health problems for humans? Personally, I feel bad about an animal being killed to be my food. But if there were no fishermen or farmers around, I believe that I would gratefully sacrifice an animal with my own hands since I believe that the health of my family requires eating small amounts of animal foods.

What about organizations that promote a 100 percent vegan diet strictly for health reasons? I think that these organizations can thrive because many people who first make the conversion from a highly processed and animal-based diet to a strict vegan diet typically experience incredible improvement with their health. For a few months or even a year or two, many people can thrive on a strict vegan diet, making it easy for them to believe that they have discovered a diet that will best support their health for the rest of their lives. But then, as most of them predictably become deficient in nutrients that are difficult to obtain from plant foods alone, they usually become confused about why their health is suffering.

This is where I believe these organizations fail and even contribute to worsening of health. Rather than consider each person as being unique and having unique requirements for health, in my view, they seem more interested in trying to fit everyone into their programs and philosophies. Health problems that people experience while on their programs are often attributed to detoxification or a period of adapation. Sometimes, the reason given for why you aren't doing well with their programs is that your spiritual or emotional health is suffering. Now, I completely agree that your spiritual and emotional health have significant impact on your overall health, but I really hope that you remain open to tinkering with all areas of your life - including what you eat - when looking to get healthier.

Do I believe that some of these groups know that a strict vegan diet is not healthy for everyone in the long term but continue to promote it to their followers? I cannot say for sure. But I will say that I believe that the decision to stick to recommending a strict vegan diet for the long term is often for business reasons or because of an interest in protecting animals than it is about honestly observing what’s working and what’s not.

Please know that I’m not asking you to blindly believe my opinion about a long term, strict vegan diet being unhealthy for most people in the long term. I’m encouraging you to be honest with yourself about how you feel. If you have been a strict vegan for more than a year and have noticed problems like feeling tired a lot, not sleeping well, weak hair and nails, sensitive and decaying teeth, inability to maintain a healthy weight, constant hunger, unexplained irritability, or depression, isn’t it worth your while to at least consider that your diet isn’t working for you? How long are you supposed to attribute these and other health problems to detoxification or a period of adjustment?

If you are a strict vegan eating mainly whole, unprocessed plant foods, and you are experiencing health challenges, you can probably experience dramatically better health just by adding some organic eggs to your diet. Organic eggs from free range birds and organic butter are two foods that will provide you with essential nutrients that are not abundant or present at all in plant foods and may not conflict with your compassion for animals.

In fact, my experiences have led me to believe that many people don’t need to get more than 10 – 25 percent of their total calories from clean, organic animal foods to be at their best. Just in the past year alone, I have worked with several people who were experiencing significant health challenges on a long term, strict vegan diet and were extremely grateful to see their health improve by adding small amounts of clean animal foods to their diets.

Here’s my final take on this topic: eating lots of plant-based foods is good for your health. Eating ONLY plant-based foods for the long term is not likely to be good for your health.

But don’t blindly trust me or anyone else on this important topic.

Trust your own body."

My father is a doctor with a strong interest in nutrition and a lifetime of experience, I trust this will allow you to see the error of your actions here.

I'm not qualified to speak as to the medical comparisons of Vegan v Veggie but I can relate my own experiences. I had been Veggie for nearly eight years when I made the choice to go fully Vegan. I lasted three years and for me it was simply the most boring period in terms of food in my life, this I understand is the number one reason people give up on a Vegan life. The food is monotonous, bland and lacking flavour and subsequently enjoyment. Compared to a veggie diet its a simple choice to go back, something I have done and now once again am Veggie. I think that for many Vegans there can be a little hint of, ' I'm better than you' with a self rightous air of self superiority over veggies. I certainly felt this at the climate camp where the odd individual with a pin tof milk or an egg was treated like some sort of criminal.

To conclude I reiterate my point, a Vegan diet is bland and boring and I understand about 90% of people becoming vegan return to a veggie diet within two years.

Well thank you to whichever Indymedia admin thought it right to hide my reply to Lyn Sawyer's comment. I understood that the comments section was for the correcting of mistakes, the comments made to this important issue about the medical needs of a child are important and presenting just one sides view (a view which is both wrong and probably injuries to the child's health) is not right.

Ms Sawyer has her view, a view I diagree with and which perhaps three quaters of all doctors disagree with. A have yet to meet a clinical nutritionist who thinks a Vegan diet is suitable for the very young, the very old or the pregnant. I would urge the Indymedia admin who made this hide choice to reconsider, there may well be medical consequences for the child here and for others who read Indymedia.

But fuck off with your middle class, condescending, patronizing assumption that we non third year medical students are dumb and ignorant and waiting to be informed by the likes of you. Piss off back to facebook or whatever world your ego has dragged you here from.




Radical readers and posters of Indymedia

Is that you don't know what dite the child was given. This woman has obvious problems. It's obvious that a vegan diet isn't natural and causes problems for children.

Evidence suggest....