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Novartis CEO's hunting lodge burnt down, mother's ashes stolen

Geoffrey Douglas | 04.08.2009 23:30 | SHAC | Animal Liberation | World

Media has reported that Novartis chairman and CEO Daniel Vasella's hunting lodge in Tyrol, Austria, has burnt down. A Novartis spokesperson claimed "It was arson with a professional fire accelerator," and that Vasella has now decided to sell the property.

There is speculation that it is the work of the same group that stole the ashes of Vasella's mother on July 27 in Chur, Switzerland. Her gravestone was defiled with "Drop HLS Now", calling on the Novartis CEO to sever its ties with Huntingdon Life Sciences (HLS).

HLS is the largest and most exposed contract testing laboratory in Europe. Five hundred animals are put to death every day by HLS, killing tens of thousands of horses, cats, dogs, primates, rabbits, hamsters, rats, mice and fish amongst others each year.

About three weeks ago, graffiti slogans against Vasella and Novartis were written on the church in Vasella's village of Risch in central Switzerland. Messages were also left on the road near Vasellas home including "Vasella is a killer. We are watching you. Death to Vasella. We'll be back."

In recent months the Militant Forces Against HLS (MFAH) [1] has reportedly targeted Novartis in France, burning down a sports centre, and in Germany, vandalising executives cars and homes. [2, 3, 4]

MFAH has this year targeted HLS customers Sandoz, Sanofi-Aventis, Bayer, Schering Plough and Pfizer. [1] The Animal Liberation Brigade [5] also claimed setting fire to executives cars in Switzerland. [6]

Grave-robbing is not a new tactic. In October 2004 the Animal Rights Militia (ARM) [7] – which has also targeted Novartis – claimed responsibility for removing from a grave the mother-in-law of a British farm-owner who bred guinea pigs for HLS. Darley Oaks Farm, in Newchurch, subsequently closed after the attack.

Novartis claims that it no longer contracts HLS and has not worked with them for years, but refuses to make a statement confirming this to anti-vivisection campaigners, namely Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty (SHAC).

A spokeswoman for SHAC denied any involvement in the recent events, but added that the organisation had many sympathisers "who support our goals".


Geoffrey Douglas


Hide the following 73 comments

No doubt there will be a witch hunt

05.08.2009 00:06

Personally I think that we have to keep in mind the fact that these news reports might not be 100 per cent truthful (remembering the Gladys Hammond affair). If all they say is true we have to bear in mind that Novartis are a group of individuals that torture, kill and maim innocent beings, a "hunting lodge" it may be safe to assume is connected with killing others. David Vasella has not been physically attacked but I forsee that whoever perpetrated the desecration and arson will be percieved as worse than a murderer or rapist, that is not the case and must be challenged.

Having said that I remain personally uncomfortable with the desecration of any grave, respect for the dead is common decency but if anyone is charged I will support them and urge others to do so.

I would also say that desecrating graves and holy relics is not something large corporations usually shy from. BAA wish to dig up 3 entire graveyards, aborginal artifacts of great cultural import are confined in museums for people to gawp at and there is no public outrage.

SHAC runs a campaign against HLS and has no control over other activists acting autonomously.

I expect lots of people will be foaming at the mouth over this one but in the scheme of things where every day animals and human children are being abused, enslaved and killed or profit and with none of the fuss that will no doubt ignite later today it is low down on my agenda of concerns.

Lynn Sawyer

I personally think this is great

05.08.2009 01:50

I know I'm not the only one to think so either, just I doubt many people are wanting to admit it!

If it gets the job done then I'm all in favour of it, by any means necessary and all that.

As for respect for the dead, everywhere you walk is a graveyard. Everywhere you dig is a graveyard. Where's the 'respect' for non-humans in all this? Bodies disintegrate in soil all the time. Just because as humans we have an unhealthy misunderstanding of death fuelled by religion, doesn't mean dead bodies are precious 'soul-defined' beings.

It just seems like blatant speciesism, don't disturb humans graves, but by all means disturb natural graves of non-humans. We're not the only animals to have sentimental value. The law just declares that humans basically have to be valued even when they are dead.

a few thoughts


05.08.2009 03:14

Whilst I personally wouldn't condone the desecration of graves, it is important to put it in perspective. Whilst it's understandable that there'll be certain sensitivities around this, acts of desecration as Lynn pointed out occur all the time, companies seem to have no qualms about concreting over entire cemeteries or building houses on them, there's even a burgeoning world wide trade in artefacts associated with death. Heck the British museum are the probably the biggest bunch of grave robbers going, they seem to feel no remorse about breaking into sacred 3,000 year old burial tombs and shipping the treasures back to the UK.

No doubt though the police will attempt to pin this on British animal rights activists, and the legal above ground campaign. I sincerely doubt that this was carried out by anyone from SHAC or any other above ground legal campaign, it is plausible however that underground activists understandably frustrated at Novartis's funding of torture may have gone above and beyond the call of duty to take matters into their own hands. That said however I am reluctant to rule out involvement from Novartis themselves or their friends in the police, the police and big corporations aren't exactly well known for playing fair. And police forces in the US have attempted and continue to attempt to deride environmental and social liberation causes via agent provocateurs in order to deliberately ensnare activists. Anyone remember when Thames Valley Police were stupid enough to record themselves on tape saying that they'd do everything and anything they could to pin evidence on SPEAK campaigners?

No doubt the police will use this as an excuse to carry out a fresh round of dawn raids on everyone, despite knowing full well that SHAC does not have any control over activists who wish to fly solo and carry out their own actions.

The media seems obsessed with deriding the animal rights movement, yet they never seem to focus on the 500 innocent lives snuffed out in Huntingdon's labs every day 365 days of the year.

Green & Black

Nice to see

05.08.2009 06:20

People taking it seriously. These actions have my full support - especially the hunting lodge (which according to local media contained hunting 'trophy' rooms, cold storage etc... and was used by Vasella as a base from which to kill wildlife). This guy is a proper scumbag - he created Novartis, and encouraged them to get more involved in 'life sciences'. As well as their outsourcing to CRO's such as HLS, every animals that dies inside Novartis' labs die because of Vasella.

As for Novartis no longer dealing with HLS, this is simply a lie, presumably to put people off carrying out further actions.

There are photos in local press of both the arson and the grave - Looking at Vasella's face as he talks to cops at the burnt lodge I doubt this was an inside job. The building was totaled and has to be rebuilt, and the grave has "drop HLS now" painted on it and has clearly ben dug up (bear in mind it was only ashes in a shallow grave). I think rather than trying to deny it was A?R related we should hold our heads up and be proud that amongst our global movement are those willing to give the lives of the innocents the consideration they deserve.



Just seen...

05.08.2009 07:03

...that there was also a room in Mr Vasella's "holiday home" which was used as a wild boar butchers. Nice.

Rod Vegano

what next?

05.08.2009 07:29

I think we will never reach most people with our message as long as we stoop to levels of graverobbing and taking people's ashes.Tactically,we should be thinking what will the general public think about this?

Each of us,even though most ppl nowadays are not religious,would be extremely upset if someone nicked our mums ashes.It is about decency and respect.Destroying property that relates to harming and killing is different but what does stealing a dead persons ashes do for animals or our rep?

Too much of the AR movement doesn't give a toss about our public image,and i believe,harms us from progressing for nonhuman animals.

- Homepage: http://Limits


05.08.2009 07:44

Obviously this isn't good for PR, but I don't think thats the point, the ALF or ARM or MFAH or whoever this is are focused on saving animals, not gaining public support. Digging up Glady's Hammond undoubtably for a period caused our aboveground/grassroots movement harm especially on stalls etc... However it did pass, and generally speaking those who harp on about it now would be moaning about something else if they didn't have that. However digging up Glady's did something else, it shut Newchurch Farm, and that was the aim of those who did it, not PR but to actually close down a vivisection breeder.

There are groups focussed on PR and getting the public on side, but there are also those who want to do whatever they can to save animals now. For some there isn't the time for the marathon, every second animals die and so they are going for the sprint. It takes everyone to win this, and I think many of those of us who wouldn't dig up dead people are as much to blame for negative PR in that we only court the media when something like this happens - and then we all say different things and often appear shifty or hypocritical. Maybe if every demo, vegan fair, street collection, etc were press released then the public would have more support, so when something like this happens it is easier for them to see it doesn't take a whole movement to dig up a small urn!

It's interesting that people criticise SHAC because it is taking a while to shut down a huge company (shock horror!), but when people try and speed up the process, they too get vilified. If we had all done more demos etc... maybe it wouldn't have come to this?

If you are worried about PR get out on the streets today and do a demo, show the public what the AR movement is really about - don't let the anti's monopolise the media.



05.08.2009 08:26

"Obviously this isn't good for PR, but I don't think thats the point, the ALF or ARM or MFAH or whoever this is are focused on saving animals, not gaining public support."

You're right about it not being the point, but your conclusion is wrong. Many of the people involved in ALF etc have a latent propensity for violence, as demonstrated by their attacks not just on those they deem to be 'guilty' but also on those that are entirley innocent. Most people go to the pub, get pissed, then get in a fight, but some are too constrained by their environment so hide behind 'causes' to exercise their moral conceit and desire for violence.



05.08.2009 09:20

What a load of bollox you have just spouted!!



05.08.2009 09:45

No-one in Novartis has been subjected to violence. Let us look at this logically it would not take much to get some guns abduct Mr Vasella, or any vivisectionist, and then subject him to experiments before killing him would it? I should imagine if the person/s who may have done this (sorry but I do not believe that we have all the facts, I do not trust the media) were ever caught that they would face in this current climate a similar sentence to a murderer along with press vilification and indignation which would have been no worse than if he had been treated thus. So really something held them back from seriously harming Mr Vasella and his employees and it was not lack of courage, or tactical, I believe that it was compassion even for the CEO of Novartis responsible or killing countless victims, forcing GMOs on all of us to create profit from a monopoly on food and when he is not doing that killing defenceless animals in the woods.
A bunch of people hell bent on violence would have seriously harmed or killed him or one of his employees. Get things into perspective, life is so much more important than property or the remains of those who are no longer with us. Interesting that the urn was taken last week and is only breaking news when the hunting lodge gets torched, was he more concerned with the hunting lodge fire than the ashes being taken?
Whatever the truth behind all this I think that we need to prepare mentally for the backlash to worsen.

Lynn Sawyer

Horrible own goal

05.08.2009 11:00

Yes there will be a witch hunt - lest we forget the SNGP are mostly all still in jail and that incident lead to Opertion Achillies and the 50 year jail terms.

Had they stopped at the arson they would have made a good point but the repeated exhumation just makes the whole AR movent look like unreasonable fanatics.

Stupid Stupid Stupid.

Green man

Not porky

05.08.2009 11:07

That's an interesting legal technique used by Lynn Sawyer - hypothesising on an extreme then announcing that it hasn't happened ("Let us look at this logically it would not take much to get some guns abduct Mr Vasella, or any vivisectionist, and then subject him to experiments before killing him would it"). Politicians also use the same technique during interviews.

Your defence though could also be usefully applied to other violent acts ("It was only dog excrement pushed through their letter box - on one actually got hurt).

Unfortunately, violence takes many forms and your defence shows the perverted nature of some of those who justify that violence.

Not porky

Mixed feelings

05.08.2009 11:26

On the one hand I agree with you Green man, it is rather distasteful, this will be used as an excuse to target known activists and brutally. It will alienate those who may have been sympathetic and got involved.
On the other hand if we go by what we know is alleged the activists concerned made a serious point without harming a living soul or even a dead soul. We know that the police and the media hyped up the Gladys Hammond case and there are serious questions as to whether or not the grave robbery in Yoxhall even took place, I do not know what happened there and I keep a very open mind as I continue to do with this case. I also think that we must be careful not to condemn genuine activists because we might be targeted, that is cowardly. Billions of innocents are dying, we have no chance of changing laws in any significant way, people are being imprisoned for peaceful campaigning, the earth is poisoned and companies like Novartis just cash in. Maybe those responsible are just hitting as hard as they can whilst staying in the realms of not actually harming him an individual whose atocities against living beings and nature (remember Novartis are involved in GMOs, factory farming, etc) by far outweighs what has been done to him.

Lynn Sawyer

To Greenman and others

05.08.2009 11:44

Some appear to think that the animal rights/liberation movement is one homogeneous group that conspires together and thinks alike. Green Man it is important to make the distinctions between individuals and their actions, not everyone thinks alike and not everyone utilises the same tactics. Some stick to peaceful protesting, just megaphones, placards and all that jazz. On the other hand I know others who are willing to go above and beyond protest and act under the banner of the ALF. Just because some people undertake ALF related actions does not mean all of them do, remember the ALF philosophy isn't interested in public relations. It's concerned with liberating animals from places of abuse and inflicting economic damage on those who support/engage in abuse, whilst at the same time taking precautions to ensure that animal life (non-human & human) is not directly endangered. If these actions get results then that is a victory, however not everyone in the movement thinks that so it's important not to make silly generalisations about the entire animal rights movement. Generalisations are for police officers, judges, and media spin journalists. Not individuals who are able to think rationally and look beyond the nonsense that the tabloids spew out on a daily basis.

Lets take other movements for example such as Environmental action and opposition to the arms trade/war. These movements have experienced direct action too. EDO's offices were broken into and smashed to pieces, coal fired power stations have been entered and sabotaged, the homes of those who run aviation businesses have been targeted, and banks that fund arms companies/mining companies have been targeted. Yet in these cases people are able to look above and beyond this and recognise that individuals choose their own courses of action, people are able to recognise that the movement doesn't all act as a whole and thus the movements are spared the tarnishing brush.

The media is obsessed with deriding the animal rights movement based on spurious generalisations, more than likely due to their vested interest in allowing animal exploitation to continue to satisfy their own greed. If individuals are able to see through the nonsense spread about the anti arms trade movement, then they should apply the same rational thought to the animal rights/liberation movement.

Before you rattle on about how the whole animal rights movement looks like unreasonable fanatics, stop and think for a while... you're merely eating from Murdoch's out stretched hand.

Green & Black


05.08.2009 12:11

The animal rights movement needs the public on their side and this is yet another PR disaster..

The animals at Newchurch were not saved they were sold on. That's all these direct action campaigns do, move breeders on and give them an excuse to close doors.

I can't see the connect between stealing ashes of a dead relative and ancient graves. To attack someone mentally is a form of violence, your actions physically affect others.

As for me gloating about you as a police target lynn, no it was me pointing out that this is why you get arrested and it won't stop until you are locked up.

You have always acted irrational Lynn, didn't SHAC shit on you also, dropped you like a hot brick when HLS went for you?

This is nothing less than a disgrace. I do remember you having a giggle when Lewis put the "grave differs" sign up at the AR gathering Lynn. You fully support this but are too cowardly to admit it.

ex (SHAC) activist (for lynns benefit)

We appear to have a difference of opinion re violence

05.08.2009 13:34

To my mind violence consists of physically attacking another with intention to cause harm. Punching someone in the face is violence, vivisection is violence, abbatoirs are violent, setting fore to a house knowing that people are within is violence whatever the justification. Some regard a raised voice, or an insult or gestures violence, I do not however unpleasant such acts may be. Many horrible things can be done to another human which are not violent or example cheating on a partner, theft of personal belongings, spreading gossip and rumours etc but none of these are "violent" in my humble opinion but all cause some degree of mental anguish. The media never describe fraudsters as violent even though someone may have destroyed someones life savings.

Strange how the other side use violence daily and lethally and yet escape being accused of it. Forgive me if I am wrong ex-activist but should we not be calling you Adrian Radford, just a hunch and I apologise profusely if you are not he. No-one else I know would post such things about my involvement with SHAC. By the way we are all adults and on the same side I am more than capable of settling my diferences away from public forums which is very bad practice and if I do happen to share a rather distasteful joke with a freind then so what? I am not by any means perfect but it does not mean that I think that digging up graves is a good plan. As I said I have no wish to condemn others but I have reservations about meddling with the dead, I would want nothing to do with it.

As for ancient burial grounds being disturbed well the 3 cemetaries around Heathrow are not ancient and many are very disturbed by the prospect of having their loved ones corpses dug up. Some relatives of prisoners killed by the state have found that there is no grave to mourn because a carpark has been placed on the grave, even a posthumous pardon therefore means that the body cannot be buried in a more appropriate place. Even if a burial ground is ancient to many cultures it is sacrilige to remove artefacts. Furthermore attacks on graves by those who just do it for kicks are commonplace and not high up on the police's agenda.

Lynn Sawyer

here we go again

05.08.2009 15:22

No Lynn I'm not Randford, remember he wasn't at the gathering when Lewis named the beer tent " grave digger arms" was he?

I do agree that may act's of violence are committed each day on animals but this isn't the issue, what you or I think of what is or is not doesn't help public opinion. I know that you gree with all forms of actions carried out on the industry, I've sat in the same room and tent while you have spoken with glee about past actions.

The grassroots movement is out of control and a public relations nightmare.

Let's not go down the your NETCU/Randford road Lynn, I could always reply with "my, you do seem to be the one that always wriggle out of a tight spot" when all else around go to jail but...

All direct action does is move the industry round like I've said. HLS kill more now than before SHAC experiments are on the rise also. Even the quoted success of Shamrock was a con since most of them went on to export primates under a different name, most still do. So Shamrock is still alive and well just not called Shamrock but the reality is that primates are still traded inspite of SHAC and It's Gatway to hell campaign. Oh and don't tell us all it's not a SHAC campaign, please..

All we are left with is SHAC activists and supporter accusing others who question SHAC or direct action. It's SHAC who's ripped apart them movement.

I would like to remember them that slag Uncaged and PETA off that it's them that go in and get the footage and it's them that puts an educated argument across.

One thing that has always stuck in my head is the vision of a groups of activists stood outside a printers shouting puppy killers and murderers. Can you imagine what people walking past would think? Yes you are right, they thought we were all idiots, a little mad...

Remember what happened last time Greg & co went to jail Lynn, yes the young lad who they left running the place had a breakdown, dropped him like a hot brick when his use was over also, happens alot.

ex (SHAC) activist (for lynns benefit)

Don't get excited I was only asking

05.08.2009 16:37

After all Radford does post here as do the police and other trolls and even people posting using my name. I am bound to be a little suspicious but to be honest I have no idea who you are, nor do I care much until I know for certain that you are not a bit dodgy. My weakness I'm sure.

No you are quite right I have not been sent to prison and or some reason escaped the wrath of both Operation Tornado and Achilles although I had dawn raids with both witch hunts. I was absent when Tornado struck(I was at work) which I think buggered things up for them as the warrant only allowed them to take stuff if I had been arrested. Achilles just came in nicked my computer etc and did not arrest me probably because it is a very long time since I was heavily involved with SHAC. I have no idea why they chose to prosecute some people and not others but those of us who have sued the police repeatedly and complained about repressive policing seemed to be avoided. I was of course very badly injured by a police officer and of course I have a very good answer when asked "why do you not respect the police?", not good in a show trial. Of course you imply that I was not included in either trial or some more sinister reason, you'd be wrong, but think what you like. Leaving some people who you would have thought were dead certs off the blacklist whilst pursuing people on the peripheries was no doubt intended to sow seeds of paranoia. I am also actually innocent (although I believe that so were all the others) which stops a prosecution quite effectively!

No I do not support every action which takes place, I simply keep quiet. I might mention something to someone if I disagree with what they are doing face to face and have a chat as others have done to me rather than anonymously post on the internet.

SHAC internal politics. I have my views on this which I will not discuss on a public site as it is inappropriate. Personal difficulties with other activists will always arise in intense situations sometimes individual activists are not perfect infallible human beings. So what?

Yes standing outside a printers shouting "puppy killers" is not the best way to do things. I agree demos and actions against those not directly involved in vivisection should take into account that workers and passers by are likely to be befuddled. Agression and shouting manically are very bad in certain situations.

Lynn Sawyer

Why moan?

05.08.2009 17:04

When you could just go and do something else? If you feel there is a PR problem then do something to counter it - do some nice fluffy actions and press release them. In fighting and mud slinging won't help, it just makes us all look worse!

Of course public support is helpful - but the Iraq war still happened despite mass public opposition. I guess for some people the suffering of animals right now cannot be ignored until such a time as we win over every member of the public.

Sometimes publicity stunts aren't enough - for example the fight for sexual tolerance is one that is best one through positive PR. However shining "Save the Jews" on the Reichstag probably wouldn't have done much to stop the holocaust.

I would rather people took non-violent - albeit controversial - actions than resorted to violence. I think it is a testament to the compassion of those in our movement that even at the most militant edge of our movement activists are taking people out of graves rather than putting people in them.

As I said, if you don't like it fine, no one is asking you to. These actions weren't carried out to please someone who by their own admission has turned their back on the animals inside HLS because they fell out with individuals in SHAC, they were carried out to impact HLS and ultimately try to help animals.

I hope you were there to support the activist you mentioned in your post who had the breakdown. I hope you offered them all of your help and took some of the workload off them. Or did you just sit back and let it happen. You can hardly blame people in prison for not helping him out - if anything it was your fault for not stepping up to the mark when you were needed. The fact that you would blame people for not sorting things out from prison pretty much demonstrates your attitude that everything is someone else's fault, and that someone else should sort everything out.

But if you don't like SHAC then please do something else.

And please answer the question I asked three times in the other post - Name one multinational company who has been as affected by any campaign as HLS has been by SHAC.

As I said in that post - if you can't answer it then stop moaning about SHAC!

Steve Discombe


05.08.2009 18:27

Any time for animal rights people collar me in the street I ask them "are you the ones that dig steal people's bodies from graves?"

That usually shuts them up when you ask them on their stall in a business street on a saturday afternoon in front of lots of people


Err Adam..

05.08.2009 19:39

I think you find that the people doing the stalls might have heard that line before. You could try to be origional and say "get a job instead", they will then be overwhelmed with your intelligence and extensive knowledge.

Sorry..sacrcasm the lowest form of wit

Lynn Sawyer

A few comments

05.08.2009 19:40

@ Moral

"I think we will never reach most people with our message as long as we stoop to levels of graverobbing and taking people's ashes.Tactically,we should be thinking what will the general public think about this?"

As pointed out a million times - these type of groups aren't looking to reach most people with the animal liberation message! Apart from the select few militants and anarchists, they are doing it because it works, not because it's going to turn people vegan overnight!

The general public will think there's a few 'crazy people' in every movement, as they already do anyway. Doesn't mean they won't look at the movement in general unless they stereotype everything in their lives. If they do, they're best not joining any movement anyway.

@ Green man

"just makes the whole AR movent look like unreasonable fanatics."

To to those who stereotype everything of course! Keep on lapping up the mainstream :-)

@ 'ex-activist'

"I can't see the connect between stealing ashes of a dead relative and ancient graves."

Stealing ancient graves are dead relatives to some. Are you feeling ok?

Strange how this thread hasn't been trolled yet. Oh wait...I get it.

"A troll is someone who messages in an online community...with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

@ Steve Discombe

"Sometimes publicity stunts aren't enough - for example the fight for sexual tolerance is one that is best one through positive PR."

For a change, I disagree with you:

@ Adam

I suggest you see your local GP about this problem, it sounds serious.

Daniel Vasella

@Daniel Vasella

05.08.2009 20:08

"Stealing ancient graves are dead relatives to some. Are you feeling ok?"

Maybe the whole thing went right over your head? Do you not grasp the whole concept of digging the dead remains up of a living relative?

Next time you browse wiki look up idiot.

ex (SHAC) activist (for lynns benefit)


05.08.2009 20:11

You say I'm dodgy? Look around you, everyone is either in jail or on bail waiting and what about you..? I know too many of your skeletons for you to start pissing on my fire.

ex (SHAC) activist (for lynns benefit)


05.08.2009 20:18

search for 'Daniel Vasella' and scroll down to the french articles, then click 'all news articles'.

media watch

To ex-slactavist

05.08.2009 20:20

You still haven't answered my question: name one multinational company as affected by any protest group as HLS have been by SHAC.

As I keep saying, you can't really moan about SHAC being ineffective until you have answered that question so quit your tantrums and get answering!

Steve Discombe

Communique from the Militant Forces Against HLS

05.08.2009 20:33

received anonymously by

Daniel Vasella's Hunting House
Oberbach, A-6653 Bach, Austria
night 02-03 August 2009

As well as butchering animals at HLS, Novartis Chairman and CEO Daniel Vasella likes to butcher animals in his own private hunting estate in Austria. He had it personally built in a town called Bach, up in the mountains. There is a large cooling unit and an area for preparing his kills, which he sometimes supplies to the local restaurant. There is also a large garage, that we guess holds the car that picks him up from the neighboring town (the rich scumbag flies in on his personal helicopter!)

You could tell it was his house from a distance - the skulls of deer we saw hanging from the walls outside and inside only made us more determined.

60 litres of petrol was concentrated in two places around the house - the roof sheltering the front entrance was packed full of petrol bombs with most of the petrol containers placed under it by the door to catch the wood inside, and around the side the wooden garage door and angled roof supports were targetted with the second group of devices.

It hasn't been your week has it, Daniel? Understand this: This will continue until you sever all ties with Huntingdon Life Sciences. We will attack your private life wherever possible. If you think it's fun killing animals in your own forest in Austria and bring them to your hunting estate, we will destroy it. Have you got any more hobbies Daniel? We will destroy them. We will destroy your life. Just remember one thing, dealing with HLS means dealing with US.


MFAH Austria - if it can burn, it WILL..."

MFAH Supporter

To the armchair ranter (Ex Activist)

05.08.2009 20:41

"Maybe the whole thing went right over your head? Do you not grasp the whole concept of digging the dead remains up of a living relative?"

Perhaps you could try explaining this to BAA who going to concrete over some. These graves still have living relatives, I suggest you write them a letter and see what that does...

Oh wait, you're only talking about this because you want to make a dig at SHAC. You don't give a shit when anyone else is doing it, I don't see you complaining about the sale of skulls retrieved from the Cambodian killing fields, I don't see you complaining about the Chinese digging up cemeteries to build sky scrapers in Beijing, and I definately don't see you complaining about UK city councils selling cemeteries off to property developers despite the fact that many of the deceased in them still have living relatives.

Thus the general point to take from your statements is this: You only care about the issue because you think that it allows you to make a rather laughable slap at SHAC and animal rights in general.

Green & Black

I don't support this action...

05.08.2009 21:57

...but I agree with "Steve's" statement.

"I think it is a testament to the compassion of those in our movement that even at the most militant edge of our movement activists are taking people out of graves rather than putting people in them."

Very well put.


Steve Discombe

05.08.2009 22:08

Just because you didn't understand the answer doesn't mean the question wasn't answered. You could tell everyone why Banks are now targets as part of the SHAC campaign, you could also tell us all why more animals are now killed inside HLS and you coulds tell us all why their shares are worth more now than they did when SHAC formed...

You could also enlighten us to what direct action you have seen other than mouthing it off on Indymedia. You probably walk around supermarkets with a full load of meat and dairy products leaving leaflets in as you run out of the main doors..

Last time I went for a drink with Mel Broughton we discussed the movement and it's direction. He said the movement would start to implode and was concerned about the way convictions would rise, how right he was. I remember the day Greg rang me to tell me Natasha and Heather had been arrested in London, earlier that day we had talked about PR disasters, how right he was.

ex (SHAC) activist (for lynns benefit)

what a load of drivel

05.08.2009 22:26

"Messages were also left on the road near Vasellas home including "Vasella is a killer. We are watching you. Death to Vasella. We'll be back."

"I think it is a testament to the compassion of those in our movement that even at the most militant edge of our movement activists are taking people out of graves rather than putting people in them."

--> bollox

cry baby

@ cry baby

05.08.2009 22:59

There is a difference between threats and actions, there is a lot of threats of violence – but no one is really killed.


Easy to talk about people who are in jail isn't it?

06.08.2009 03:29

"Last time I went for a drink with Mel Broughton we discussed the movement and it's direction. He said the movement would start to implode and was concerned about the way convictions would rise, how right he was. I remember the day Greg rang me to tell me Natasha and Heather had been arrested in London, earlier that day we had talked about PR disasters, how right he was."

Because they can't defend themselves and deny these lies...



06.08.2009 06:57

Yeah you actually haven't answered my question at all have you... simple question, demanding a simple answer:

Name one multinational company who has been as affected by any campaign group as HLS have been by SHAC.

The only answer it needs is a name...

Steve Discombe


06.08.2009 07:07

Q) You could tell everyone why Banks are now targets as part of the SHAC campaign

A) Banks are not currently part of the campaign. They were for a while as HLS were seeking a UK bank account and loan and it was felt that it was important to deter them - as no one wanted HLS to have the opportunity to refinance. This goal was achieved. Also, targeting the banks pushed their shareprice into breaching the NYSE listing standards. It is likely that this played a part in them having to accept the BAker proposal.

Q) you could also tell us all why more animals are now killed inside HLS

A) Where do you get this statistic? It is not what HLS say: "A Huntingdon spokesman ... said it tested drugs, pesticides and other products on about 70,000 animals in 2001, but that number has "probably gone down" since then."

Q) and you coulds tell us all why their shares are worth more now than they did when SHAC formed...

A) HLS' financial situation is currently so bad, with such a volatile shareprice that they are soon to become a private company meaning they will have no shares at all. Obviously there have been fluctuations in the shareprice - primarily with the SHAC USA and UK prosecutions, but the shareprice has dropped during the recession more than any other company who has remained solvent.

Oh and you didn't answer my other question either: what were you doing when that activist was left to run SHAC? Did you offer him your full support?

Steve Discombe

@ ex-activist

06.08.2009 07:52

Skeletons in my closet? Sounds like you are accusing me of doing something very naughty! As I said before, no I do not dig up dead bodies. I am fairly above board, I am no angel but if anyone has a problem with me I am more than happy to have a chat with them.

As for me thinking that you are dodgy well we could all post shite up about how someone upset us once but we don't. You imply that you were close to Greg and to Mel and quote very specific events which most of us would regard as trivia, for example me and Lewis laughing at something years ago, I can't remember that too well, it seems to me that you must have been making notes about people VERY dodgy. I certainly don't remember arguing with anyone over anything, but maybe you are more comfortable with posting anonymous criticisms from years ago than saying things face to face at the time.

By dodgy I meant that I think that you are a shit stirrer either for the police, a private security company such as Black Chrysalis (run by Adrian Radford), a multinational or you just like to slag people off. Those in prison are no angels either but are still brave, dedicated and hardworking people who are being persecuted or their beliefs. At best you are just someone who can't be arsed to be an activist any more.

Lynn Sawyer

Number of animals...

06.08.2009 09:30

The number of animals tested on by HLS has not increased. In fact in the last year they have tested on between 15 and 20% fewer animals than the same period in 2008.

The bosses of HLS were given an incentment that was if they could turn 16% of revenue as profit for 4 consecutive quarters they would get a massive payout. They failed to do this so instead in May they changed the term of the incentive so that if/when Baker buys the business they will get a massive payout.

The revenues of HLS are loosely coupled to the number of animals tested on. As one goes down so does the other.

Count von Count

count von count

06.08.2009 11:42

revenue is linked to contracts no the amount of animals they kill. Primate research has also go up at HLS...



06.08.2009 12:14

Yes Lynn you have done some naughty things. Who mentioned digging up graves?

Yes I know Greg, Natasha, Heather, Mel, Keith, Sarah (both) John, Jonny, Kerry, Brendan and you of all people, I could go on but I have made that point. The point of such trivia is to drop that little hint that I'm not another of your conspiracy theories, the last paragraph confirmed my suspicions where you would end up with this, it always does.. I'm from the old school Lynn...

I have a good memory, not that the event of Lewis putting up the sign needed much remembering, it's caused a problem, you thought it was funny. I do and did say what I was thinking face to face, was that some sort of veiled threat coming from you? I do have a problem posting under my name knowing that the movement is full of cranks repaired to skulk around family homes at night, you know Lynn the face to face sort of stuff lacking in your world. Next time we meet I will make myself known to you, then next time I post you will know who it is. Would that make you feel better?

You lowered the tone. When you have no answer you accuse. I have not slagged anyone off, I have questioned their loyalty to other supporters something that is done regular, even amongst the above named. The internal divisions within the movement are no secret. The fact Greg and Natasha have walked all over supporters and campaigns is a fact we all talk about. Natasha once said Heather was so important to SHAC because she knew so many people, everyone loves Heather! Why else would you have your husbands ex hanging about?

People in glass houses should not throw stones Lynn. The reason you don't get down to it is because HLS went for your home, that's why you put SHAC in a spot when you refused to use your address and the address was the connection for any raid. Didn't you stop campaigning when HLS went for you? Funny how that turned out.... All around you things go very wrong and you come up smelling of roses and not because you have taken the police to court. Personally I think you are passing information around.

ex (SHAC) activist (for lynns benefit)

Bite back not reporting this - they know a PR disaster

06.08.2009 13:45

Very significantly there is no mention of the exhumation at all on Bite back - the first one played very badly in the US and to repeat the mistake is unforgivable.

Bite back not reporting this - they know a PR disaster

06.08.2009 13:46

Very significantly there is no mention of the exhumation at all on Bite back - the first one played very badly in the US and to repeat the mistake is unforgivable.


06.08.2009 14:57

You still haven't answered the question about any other multinationals affected as much by a campaign group as HLS have been by SHAC.

And to the other poster - it hasn't been on Biteback yet because it has not been claimed. I am sure it will get on there at some point.


tell me

06.08.2009 16:20

Who's the largest contract testing lab..?



06.08.2009 17:58

So another trial without jury, some persecutors as prosecutors is all one needs in a so called democracy. Is everyone blind to the fact that acts of unlawfulness need to be proven,not justified by some and condemned by others without proof.This sort of thing went on in the dark ages.
Who has the most political gain from these acts one has to ask.
Who has the immunity to go forth and commit such acts.
The CCTV systems installed, near enough universally, always seem to be turned off or not installed.
The wealth of these companies,the ones that are in control of the income of governments have a vested interest in besmirching any voice for animals.
If you pay enough you can get it done.
All the unfounded gibberish about Gladys -------the grave was dug by experts, too neat to be the work of persons in a hurry and working in the dark, with paranoia resting its hand on their shoulders.
If only you non believers could understand ,there is such a thing as an act of God. Well done God I thought you had abandoned the animals.

harry potter

Interesting thesis ex activist

06.08.2009 18:23

Yes I am willing to talk to you face to face at any time whoever you are, you may or may not be one of the trolls who post on here regularily so putting a face to anyone will not exactly make me "feel better" simply I believe that if someone is genuine and has to publicly spill such bile against others that diferences should be discussed which does not mean threats don't be so pathetic, I have no interest in threatening people.

I am not going to discuss my private relationship with Greg and Natasha, nice try though! SHAC no longer use my address for very good reasons all to do with an undertaking with HLS to revoke a substantial costs order which ewould have meant them taking the house, I suspect if HLS had taken my house they may not have let SHAC use the address and as you should know this was posted up when it happened. It is my decision whether or not my house is used by a campaign and nothing to do with anyone else, as it was SHAC were permitted to use the address for as long as was practicable with 2 years notice that this was a distinct possibility. Really I do not understand your point.

Really no activist that I have ever known would write such hateful stuff about others, certainly not those in prison and unable to defend themselves. Interesting that people who have serious issues with others never seem to say so at meetings, to activists that could mediate or in any other constructive way which is why people like me do regard such posts as from a hostile source. As I have said before I apologise if I am wrong in that assumption.

Lynn Sawyer


06.08.2009 18:38

The same company who are most exposed and in lots of debt!



06.08.2009 19:56

That would be wrong HLS are not the biggest...


Not at all interesting Lynn

07.08.2009 11:42

It's sad that the animal rights movement is stuck in this rut. Public opinion is low and the diversity the movement had has gone. The movement no longer learns from it's mistakes and new ideas are knocked down by SHAC and it's "hardcore" inner group in order to keep maximum support, what ever it takes...

Other grassroots campaigns are crushed by SHAC because they want every effort to go on their campaign. You yourself have witnessed this Lynn and you help perpetuate the myth that SHAC care. We are not going to be able to move forward until this phase has ended, this is the animal rights movements worst hour!

A movement and it's "leaders" should be able to stand up to criticism, it should be transparent if not then it needs to change.

I have not tried to get to to go into your relationship with anyone. I stated the fact that you put SHAC in a bad position when you dropped the address. You didn't tell the truth about that either but for it necessary to go into it.... I was even at the ARC meeting where you was running between Nat, Greg, Max and Brendan whining about YOUR house. Didn't take much for you to drop the animals did it Lynn?

I'm not interested in making an appointment to meet you Lynn, we will bump into each other some day at a public event.

By the way Lynn, I was the fly on the wall when you were running around whining about your house, I won't repeat what was said about your display.

SHAC needs to go so the movement can repair and move on.

ex (SHAC) activist (for lynns benefit)

Think what the hell you like ex activist

07.08.2009 12:18

Some of us will just get on with it. Yes I actually agree with you several lessons should be learnt but this does not digress from the fact that all the people you seem to want to publicly vilify are fallible human beings who have not behaved perfectly at all times, they are all good activists who I have the utmost respect for REGARDLESS. Activists who support SHAC also support many other campaigns. You are utterly unaware of the ins and outs of the 6 Boat Lane saga which was sorted out years ago I cannot be bothered to explain it all again. A simple question though, when it became clear that HLS were keen to take my house why on earth did YOU not offer your home address as an postal address for SHAC?In fact I never remember anyone at an ARC meeting saying that SHAC were going down the wrong track, why did you not speak out? Easy to criticise anonymously when most o your targets are in prison eh?
It is all very well condemning those who have done their utmost in a difficult situation but regrettably SHAC were going to lose the address as part of the undertaking or because HLS would have owned the address. Again you fail to make your point the same as you have ailed to support other activists in times of difficulty.Your sanctimonious posturing is laughable. Still if SHAC or any other campaign need a postal address you no doubt will supply it unless you are a hypocrite as well as a troll?

Lynn Sawyer

you have got all shitty.

07.08.2009 14:49

This is because you know I'm telling the truth. You tell lie after lie Lynn, I remember many ARC meeting often discussed direct action and the problems it posed to the movement in fact John Curtin raised the issue at a few meeting you attended.....

I never say anything I haven't said to the faces of people concerned and I still visit Heather and Natasha in prison. All activists in prison get a regular postal order from me also. I also do much with animal rescue.

I have often criticised SHAC when it was needed, my opinion was always welcome.

The address saga was trivial and not my concern I just watched it unfold you having a breakdown because you could loose your home. You stopped activism. I gave my freedom kept a clear head and moved on years ago.

Yes we know we are all trolls, it's your last defence.

I would never trust an ex hunter, none with the close connections you had, are you a plant?

ex (SHAC) activist (for lynns benefit)

Get over it

07.08.2009 15:37

You are so pathetic - Ok great you fell out with Gregg, we get it. You feel betrayed which is a shame, but this isn't the "We Love Gregg Campaign". If you open your eyes and look at the real world, not every one gets on. In any workplace or communal space people fall out, but they have to suck it up and get on with it. As you said, people like Heather and Lynn potentially have reasons to have been a bit miffed a times, but they aren't pathetic, and they actually care about helping animals, so they just got on with what was important.

It isn't SHAC that has destroyed other groups (unless you can name one, rather than just making sweeping statements of absurdity?), it is people like you that would rather have a good old moan than actually practice what you preach.

You don't like SHAC - then do something else, lead from example, don't just hide in the shadows winging.

I have been following this thread, biting my tongue but you have been such a spoilt little princess. You still haven't answered Steve's question which is very telling, and also you keep coming up with little criticisms, which keep getting addressed by others, so you then come up with some more!

Get over it and stop throwing your toys out of the pram. Just be an adult and throw your support behind a different campaign, act like someone who deserves respect, not an 8 year old girl who's daddy won't buy her a new pony.

I can guarantee every other grass roots campaign out there like SPEAK, CAFT, CAPS, The Sequani Campaign, Smash EDO, Climate Camp, ANTIFA would all rather you spent your time actively helping them rather than trying to create divisions in our movement. It's time to get on with your life and do something positive and helpful, rather than helping the police and big pharma by proxy.

Steven Richards


07.08.2009 15:52

There is little point even responding to your moronic allegations, but no I am not a plant and no I do not lie except for the trivial stuff it is estimated we all lie about to save people's feelings. You are a troll as far as I can make out and I do actually have better things to do. It was very sillty o me to bother responding to your nonsense in the first place.
Bye and come up with something more imaginative, if you are going to make wild accusations make them more exciting please.

Lynn Sawyer

I can name one.

07.08.2009 19:07

"It isn't SHAC that has destroyed other groups (unless you can name one, rather than just making sweeping statements of absurdity?), it is people like you that would rather have a good old moan than actually practice what you preach."

B&K. SHAC killed it dead!! ex is right in what he/she says.


Simon, please elaborate

07.08.2009 21:26

As ar as I know the B and K campaign suffered terrible police harassment enforced by the fuedal rule of Gerry Bantin and one of the most dedicated local activists died suddenly earlier this year quite possibly as a result of the stress. I would like to know why you think that SHAC had anything to do with the B and K campaign diminishing (according to you) which is a small local campaign with ocassional demos which were attended by many of us also involved with SHAC.

Lynn Sawyer

Local campaign? B&K

07.08.2009 21:54

Remember the large demos it pulled way back? Mmm

I remember Shac (Greg Avery) slagging Covance campaign off at an ARC meeting also.. Pull your head out of the sand, we are not all sheep! Did you forget Steve and his mother? We didn't!


Fitch hunt

07.08.2009 23:25

What is this post about? If you've got something serious to say about Lynn or some big expose, well say it or shut the fuck up. Jesus all this 'he said she said' tittle tattle. Any new comer reading this must think they've stumbled on Jerry Kyle' late night shift. Leave her alone or come up with something important. Her name isn't Lynn Shac, living down Shac Street, Shacville. She's answered the weak accusations, now let it be and get a life, you obviousy aren't cut out for mixing with people and all that it entails, go it alone, their ain't no shame in that. Goodnight I'm off to bed.

Billy Gruff

Good for you.

08.08.2009 03:50

It's about time someone spoke out against SHAC.


B and K campaign

08.08.2009 10:24

I have just spoken to someone closely associated with the B and K campaign who confirmed that repeated raids on those demonstrating there, the tragic death of a young activist and gross police oppression were largely responsible for the lack of campaigning there now. I do remember 12 years ago about 100 people demonstrating there and I would certainly support any group who started a fresh campaign there. I have been to a few demos there myself.

Re the Covance campaign I do not think that SHAC stopped the Covance campaign, other factors which are nothing to do with SHAC came into play.Again I have just spoken to someone involved with running that campaign. It is not up to me to repeat things third hand. Dorothy and Steve are 2 people who I have a great deal of admiration for who ran a professional and dedicated campaign, as often happens with people they have moved on to other things,. What Greg said about Covance I do not know but of course he was always utterly dedicated to SHAC. Personally I have always been very supportive of other campaigns as are many involved with SHAC (in fact I am more involved with the Sequani campaign than SHAC and have been for many years) which includes issues such as human rights, the arms trade and climate change. There is nothing to stop anyone starting a campaign against Covance which as I understand is in fact the largest group of contract testing laboratories in the world.

Personally I also find the comment about sheep rather interesting especially as sheep are highly intelligent and more than capable of mugging unsuspecting ramblers. Go to the Lake District with a rucksack full of food, sit near some herdwicks and come back and tell me that sheep are easily led fools!

Regarding the last post about questioning SHAC. Yes of course constructive criticism should be aired, mistakes should be learned from I do not disagree with that at all. Personal criticism of those in prison using the benifit of hindsight and denouncing those who have the guts to carry out illegal direct action is not, to my mind, acceptable.

Lynn Sawyer

And as usual...

08.08.2009 16:57

The suspected troll posts, written in the certain unmistakable style we have seen before, has surprise, surprise appeared on a certain police extremist run pro-viv blog.. SHACwatch


Stitched up by SHAC.

08.08.2009 20:51

Anyone remember the whistle-blower who worked at Covance? Yes the one who passed documents to SHAC and they shit on him by publishing them with his name all over! Lost everything....

Support SHAC, watch you back!!


To anyone wanting to leak info on vivisection

09.08.2009 04:04

If there is anyone out there with info on vivisection and wants to leak it but has been worried by any accusations the best way is to use wiki leaks ( from a public computer.

Very safe method. I'd suggest anyone with a conscience does this.

Good luck to anyone wanting to help.


B&K etc

09.08.2009 10:26

You are trying to white wash events after the fact but you do a very bad job of it Lynn. After the flurry of success (Consort, Regal, Shamrock etc) the Avery war machine was looking for another target. B&K was one on the list but Greg had bigger plans to take on a larger target. At a loose end other dedicated activists decided to take on B&K. Before it could gather momentum Greg and co stepped in to "poach" key activists for their planned attack on HLS. The campaign dwindled into the farce of two ladies sat at the end of the road till years later a younger activist got involved. This is probably the contact you speak of but he was just out of nappies when all this unfolded!

Much the same happened with the Covance campaign run by Steve and Dorothy but SHACs tactics took on a more sinister tone. It was a smear in private and a "tactical" promotional move in public where SHAC convinced everyone that Covance was a waste of time and HLS was the better target. It got to the point Greg was out of order at the ARC meeting, insulting the campaign organisers. This caused bad blood between the two campaign organisers. The campaign at Covance failed because the numbers that they had dropped to join SHAC. Mission accomplished.

The same contact you rang started off at Covance and took over the running of the campaign soon after Steve and Dorothy move on, pushed out.... He then moved on to B&K, again he was just out of nappies when this all unfolded. Even he moved onto SHAC along with the other couple who tried to run the campaign, all ended up in jail!! These campaigns would never get off the ground while SHAC wanted them shut down.

We all could see what was unfolding but kept our traps shut, for the animals.... No because decent was soon paint stripped out! Yes Lynn we paint strip our own to keep them from speaking their minds don't we?

I won't be sucked into your games, running off the backs of Greg and co. What a track record they have when it comes to letting police and reporters into their fold.

In Lynn's little world anyone who speaks out is a troll.

Yes we know you spent allot of time on the Sequani campaign and just look what happened! Yes too much info in the hands of the law. You sure you are not on the payroll of the industry?

If anyone is a troll it's you.

ex (SHAC) activist (for lynns benefit)

@ ex (SHAC) activist (for lynns benefit)

09.08.2009 13:23

Is that post going to end up on SHACwatch too? Lyn has been very cooperative with your crap – but lets be clear if you are an activist (very unlikely as you write in SHACwatch style) you are a crap one, stop wasting your time infighting and focus on whatever you think will help the animals. Even if everything you say is true Greg is still a better activist than you because he worked for the animals – day in and day out – and you say you quit.


@ me

09.08.2009 14:44

You have not got a clue who I am or what I do or how long I have done it for. I will give you a clue, over 20 years worth. I give up with SHAC long time ago.

The movement isn't SHAC but SHAC has fucked the movement up.

ex (SHAC) activist (for lynns benefit)

As I said

09.08.2009 14:50

I have better things to do than counter this crap, but you can not be allowed to get away with it. You clearly were not at the Sequani trial were all evidence focused on LEGAL demonstrations and guilt by association. The only "evidence" consisted of CCTV footage of demos, the website and the fact that all concerned knew one another. I know the police are pretty thick but the so called "crime" was carried out in front of them and filmed. What are you proposing I did, told them that there was an SSAT website? Pointed out that we were holding banners with anti vivisecton slogans on? Blimey, next you'll be accusing me of spilling the beans over the fact that there is an AR gathering this year and telling them about Veggie Pride! We had all this last year, several people were accused of being grasses, no evidence, weird fictional stories all confirmed as such, usual suspects i.e NETCU. It's like a scratched record.

You are accusing me of informing on my freinds without any evidence, you accuse me of being a current target on current demonstrations, gloat over the prospect of me being imprisoned and then say I stopped being an activist 5 years ago. You whine about going to prison, blame SHAC (are you not an adult capable of making choices or implying that someone grassed you up?) then say you put it all behind you but call yourself "ex" activist. You belittle me for difficult decisions I made with the assistance of other activists, the circumstances of which you have a minimal grasp, make a huge fuss about it , intimate that I seriously damaged SHAC ( a group you say should disband anyway)then say that it is a petty point anyway. You contradict yourself repeatedly, condemn others for lack of action and refuse point blank to answer very simple questions for example why did YOU not support the lad who subsequently had a nervous breakdown? Why did YOU not offer your home address up (you have no excuse unless you were homeless) as the SHAC address or at the very least money to fight the court case and permanent homes for 2 activists and a dog who would have been made homeless?

I unlike you have made myself known and yes I am not perfect I have made many mistakes but you are clearly unwilling to undergo any scrutiny yourself as is your perogative but I strongly suspect that you are far from flawless. You hide your identity and snipe at others that is hardly the mark of any paragon of virtue. You also mention someone who fell out with SHAC, I did know some of the tale although I never met him, I understand that he felt ill used (if he was then that is disgraceful) and I did have some sympathy for him until he went to the Sunday Times and betrayed other activists. The animal rights movement is much bigger than SHAC and beyond the animal rights movement there are many other campaigns crying out for support, activists should move away from those with whom they do not get on with despite mediation, being frank with those who have misbehaved etc and find others with whom they work well not go running to the press to denounce people.

I am aware of certain disagreements but this is not the place to discuss other activists and incidents which have passed especially as I was not involved in any way and do not know the full facts. All I do know is that SHAC cannot be blamed for the diminishing of either Covance or B and K campaigns. Once again young activists are belittled as of no use when they have been very effective campaigners. By the way even if Greg did say that the Covance campaign was "crap" (I would strongly disagree with him) other activists are responsible for their own actions. If someone does not go to an action because someone else says that the action is "crap" quite frankly that is pathetic and it is the fault of the activist who is not prepared to scratch the surface and make up their own mind.

Tactical points, discussing how to move forward, learning from mistakes made (for example more local grass roots campaigns, less centralisation would be a good thing) and being constructive rather than condemning others are helpul. You are just bitter, twisted and hateful at the very best. Are you really suprised at being called a troll when you are so vitriolic and full of spite?

Lynn Sawyer

@ ex (SHAC) activist (for lynns benefit)

09.08.2009 15:32

The fact is you stopped being an activist. Are you dead? Are you in jail? No. Then what right have you got to criticize people still working for the animals?


@ me

09.08.2009 19:15

Fact is I've always been active for over 20 years. I was vegan when you were still munching on McDonalds.

ex (SHAC) activist (for lynns benefit)

Jack Straw used to go on demos too

09.08.2009 19:39

And look at him now...
We're bored of you - the only people who agree with you are a vivisection industry / police pro-testing hate website, and even they called your posts vitriolic!

As has been said a million times - stop moaning and help out a different group!

PS - The idea that activists can be poached is pretty offensive to every activist - some of us do this because we have independent thought...


@ ex (SHAC) activist (for lynns benefit)

09.08.2009 20:25

You don't know how long I've been a vegan and an AR activist, so you are clearly making things up (as usual).


you have got all shitty again.

09.08.2009 20:39

This is the place to discuss so that other activist don't fall for SHAC crap.

Lynn you talk bollocks as usual, I don't blame SHAC for my imprisonment. How do you know I didn't offer my address and how do you know I didn't help a certain person through their break down? You don't.

Greg and Natasha Avery actively went against both campaigns, fact. You say you respect Dorothy and Steve well next time you feel the need to pick up a phone ring them...

Day in the life of Greg Avery, up early, go for a run then eat, sit at Mac editing news letter, eat, shut himself away listening to music, eat, go to self defence lessons, eat, go to the pub and get pissed, eat then sleep. Weekend, stalls, eat and get pissed.

SHAC was run from the middle of fields and pubs. Greg Avery screwed the public and the movement and I can guarantee his has a pot stashed!


ex (SHAC) activist (for lynns benefit)

It may have escaped your attention, but...

10.08.2009 08:14

Gregg is in prison until at least 2012. He is then on license until 2016. He then has a life time ASBO preventing him from being involved in SHAC. SHAC is no longer "Greggs campaign", he has no involvement whatsoever any more, and seeing as all of your criticisms seem to stem from some personal hatred of Gregg it seems time to move on.

Whatever you feel has happened in the past, that era is over, lets look to the future and try and make this movement one we can all be proud of, rather than acting like a bunch of school kids. By all means give some positive criticism, suggest how we can improve etc... but don't just rail on about how much you hate someone who is not even involved in this campaign any more, it has got very tired.


As Arthur rightly says

10.08.2009 09:51

things have changed dramatically whatever happened, happened, move on. If you offered your address up to SHAC why was it not used if there was such a major emergency (which there was not)? Did you actually support the person who had a breakdown? Maybe you never knew this person.

What you have just said about Greg who is in prison and unable to defend himself is absolutely disgusting. Yes I agree he has his faults(don't we all ?) but he was utterly dedicated to SHAC and to fighting HLS, he hardly slept and motivated and inspired many activists. If Greg had wanted a hedonistic lifestyle with his drive and talent he could have been earning a 6 figure salary working for some shitty company, instead of working 7 days a week, all day and sometimes all night making it impossible for many of us to keep up with him. You don't like him but he is no longer involved with SHAC which is now populated by a completely different set of people, personally I just toddle along to the occassional demo and might bore everyone senseless with the odd speech at a national every so often.

All I see in you is control freak who is jealous of what another activist achieved but who posted nothing up about SHAC when Greg was at liberty and able to defend himself and whose talents are mediocre, whose stamina ran out after a couple of years. Your persistant negativity in a public place concerning people you claim to have been close to is not in any way relevant and is really underhand. I suspect that you are not capable of achieving anything like Greg achieved but go ahead prove me wrong. Set up a campaign with those you get on with against Covance, against B and K, whatever you want and do it bigger, better and more successully than SHAC. What exactly is standing in your way if you are in any way the genuine "ex-activist" you claim to be?

Lynn Sawyer

This is boring

10.08.2009 23:41

"A troll is someone who messages in an online community...with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

This article is titled "Novartis CEO's hunting lodge burnt down, mother's ashes stolen". Take your off-topic messages that are disrupting normal on-topic discussion elsewhere...

troll hunter

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