What kind of non-hierarchical space is Leeds Common Place?

minus one

12.10.2009 14:44

If that is a true reflection of events then I'd suggest the Common Place look into switching to a consensus minus one model. Open meetings and consensus desicion making are easily disrupted by malicious or vindictive individuals.

-1

not true

12.10.2009 14:53

Only one anti-fascist event has ever been blocked, and this meeting has been called to figure out how to avoid that happening again. The meeting is only open to current common place members.

commoner

@commoner RE:bullshit

12.10.2009 15:22

thats bullshit, without naming names and details, their have been at least 3 events blocked, and as someone not directly involved in anti-fascism I'm sure their are more...
TBH I don't see what the fuss is about, the common place is a dirty, cliche, hole full of libral hippys.
no major loss.
(although I can understand why people would be annoyed by a so called political venue blocking anti-fascist events)

captain bullshit

What has happened to the Common Place

12.10.2009 15:47

The Common Place has been taken over by liberal idiots. There have been rumours circulating about their treatment of antifascists for ages now. They should apologise for their behaviour and make amends before they are disowned by the entire movement. Bradford 1 in 12 has a proud antifascist tradition, they would never behave in this way. The Common Place are quite happy to take their money though aren't they. What the hell has happened to the CP, who are the clique running it, they give their members details to the cops, put up CCTV, and try and exclude antifascists.

Disgusted

Concensus?

12.10.2009 16:26

How on earth does that work that someone can come along out of the blue and be able to block a group that has been involved with the C.P. since the beginning and are well respected by lots of people? How can that be in any way democratic. I'm not at all new to concensus decision making but it sounds like complete bollox to me.

???

Err !

12.10.2009 16:42

That's what consensus decision making is all about reflecting the views of everybody and respecting them. We don't just say, "well we don;t like his or her block so let's exclude their view and go forward with those who agree with us".

Common Place Supporter

Anti-fascism in Leeds

12.10.2009 16:42

With the BNP on the rise and the EDL due to go on the warpath in Leeds, it's very poor timing that ANYONE should be trying to make things harder for anti-fascists. The Common Place seems to have lost its way, but hopefully people will say 'Enough is Enough' with regard to this matter. We should ALL be anti-fascists, and all be trying to stop the BNP, not behaving like this.

Leeds anti-fascist

self-defense is no offence

12.10.2009 17:08

self-defence to me has to and does include defending my community from fascism. end of. understand? not simply violence, but self defence.
can't believe what's happened to the common place that this even has to be discussed. another of our spaces has been hijacked. i hope at least that lessons can be learnt from where the weakness was so that other spaces can learn and protect themselves from this sort of tragedy.

anne

The lengths that fascists will go to

12.10.2009 17:09

I see that this thread has now disappeared off the news-wire. Has the same cop whose infiltrated the Common Place also infiltrated Indymedia?

Antifascist

Enough!

12.10.2009 17:46

Perhaps an IM mod with a sense of humour CP Supporter? Or maybe they just thought that what you posted didn't make sense? Many of the CP's longest standing members and supporters are (or have been in the past) active antifascists. The person causing all the trouble at the CP is entitled to their opinion, what they aren't entitled to do is continually ram their views down the throats of everyone else, to behave in a tyrannical and undemocratic way, and to attempt to drive out groups that use the CP. He hasn't 'respected' concensus decision making, he's thoroughly abused it, and abused the other members of the CP, the CP project, and the welcome he received when he first put his head round the door. His behaviour has been totally out of order and if he can't refrain from it in future he deserves to be asked to leave.

CP supporter and antifascist

Comment

12.10.2009 18:00

It seems to me that the process of decision making at The Common Place is not all it should be in a non-hierarchical organisation. So, it is a good thing to have this discussion as there must be people there who have recognised that this is a serious issue that needs to be resolved, both in terms of decision making and in terms of supporting the very groups that rightly use the space. The initial decision to block the event obviously has ramifications for all other movements that use the space, as most include activists who are willing to take the fight to oppressors and abusers. Inevitably, such confrontation sometimes ends in 'violence'.

Captain Jack

Whose Next?!

12.10.2009 18:01

If anti-fascists are "violent" so are hunt sabs, ALF people, many climate activists, ELFers, Anarchists, ISM people, the ABC, the AF, anyone doing self-defence training, etc. In other words just about anybody who uses the common place - with the exception of this white, middle-class, professional man who prefers the police to Direct Action. Don't suppose he gets much shit from fascists - especially when he's on their side attacking antifascists and the rest of us.

Anyone attending this meeting shouldn't be fooled by the prejudicial language and manipulative bullshit or the stupid interpretation of concensus by self-serving scoundrels masquerading as wet-behind-the-ear liberals The CP has to put an end to whats being going on. Enough is enough. Support our antifascists.

I'm Spartacus!

dancing with the captain

12.10.2009 18:12

I think that's a very valid post Captain Jack. That e-mail quoted above sent out by the CP is bang out of order though, it is disgraceful to define antifascists in those terms, it also shows a clear bias. I hope I'm wrong (about the bias) but whoever wrote that should apologize and give the job of e-mailing to someone who has better english

Sunny Jim

Is this for real

12.10.2009 18:49

I'm pretty new to the city but this seems shockin. A few of us freshers have already started to organise ourselves to do some serious anti-fascist work in leeds and were plannin on using the common place as a place to go to find out more. Is there a chance that if we get involved then that could help?
like i said we're all new to the city and were countin on the CP as a radical hub.

hope this can all be sorted out.

Fighting fascism with hearts minds and steel capped boots.

leeds CW fresher
mail e-mail: leedsuniautonomous@gmail.com

Welcome Antifascists

12.10.2009 19:17

Welcome Leeds CW Fresher, to you and fellow antifascists. I'm afraid that the Common Place really isn't very radical at all, but there are radical elements in Leeds including good antifascists. I think that the stuff happening at the Common Place is something that all radical activists need to speak about. I'm a member of the Common Place (not an active one), but I didn't even get the e-mail sent out about this meeting.

Ben

Comment 2

12.10.2009 19:23

'Opposition to the block was also recorded' interesting to hear what that was.

The letter only describes what one person thinks, and why they made the objection. It doesn't say what the opposition to the block was, though some of it will be fairly obvious to many of us.

The whole episode is unfortunate, this should have been resolved without needing to use this meeting, because either he is right (and he isn't) or he doesn't really understand what the social centre is about.

Captain Jack

CP Minutes

12.10.2009 20:22

The CP minutes record that a request from anti-fascists to use the CP for an event was blocked by one member of the Bookings collective because this person considered them to be "harmful to society and the CP should not support them." The minutes also record "One request to record opposition to the block", but the argument given is not recorded. I think many using the CP will be well aware of who the person blocking the event was - many of us regard him as a fucking menace. That he was ever allowed to get away with this, and that the minutes were recorded in the way they were is absolutely shocking. No way should this meeting even have to take place, the bloke is a deluded control freak with shit politics and extreme authoritarian tendencies. As far as many of us are concerned he cannot be trusted either. It is way past time that he was told to Fuck Off and that the CP smartened up in terms of dealing with this kind of infiltrator.

ACAB

More CP minutes

12.10.2009 20:32

In the most recent CP minutes, the discussion on this topic is subtitled "Supporting groups involved with physical violence"! Is it not possible for the CP to find someone to take minutes who is not a complete fucking idiot?

Writing about antifascists in that way - on the CP fucking website no less - Is like dismissing Queer Mutiny (for example - no offense intended guys, gals, and others) as a "a group involved with taking drugs" - ie absolutely fucking unacceptable.

ACAB

block

12.10.2009 20:50

why doesn't someone just block the decision to ban antifa meetings in the building?

consenting

Any connection with Northen Indymedia?

12.10.2009 20:54

They have this editorial guideline:

Content should not promote, incite or glorify any form of exploitation, oppression, discrimination or domination, including environmental degradation, animal abuse, violence, nationalism, racism, sexism, queerphobia or homophobia

http://www.northern-indymedia.org/pages/editorial-guidelines

'violence' is a clickable link to:

http://www.who.int/topics/violence/en/

"Violence is the intentional use of physical force or power, threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, which either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment, or deprivation"

On the basis of this guideline, they hid an announcement of a screening of the "weather underground"

http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-northern-moderation/2009-August/0814-2e.html

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/weatherunderground/film.html

wotcha

Any Connection to Northern Indymedia

12.10.2009 21:06

I'd be suprised if the person involved with this is not connected to NI - hes on every single collective and comitee at the common place.

Suspicious

When was the last time you went to an antifacist thing at the common place?

12.10.2009 21:10

'thats bullshit, without naming names and details, their have been at least 3 events blocked, and as someone not directly involved in anti-fascism I'm sure their are more... '

I reckon its bollocks as well. When the CP first opened there was always loads of antifa things on. now theres never anything like that on. Someone down there doesn't like antifacists for sure.

Bash the fash

Dignified silence

12.10.2009 21:48

A lot of regular common place users have known about what's been going on for some time (though I personally thought the matter had been settled ages ago.) I'd just like to say that I think that the antifascist group concerned have been very restrained and dignified in terms of remaining publicly silent about this despite the obvious provocation. I imagine they have done this in order not to give ammunition to the fascists. It's a shame that others can't behave with the same dignity and restraint in return.

Leeds @ctivist

shit in the locks

12.10.2009 22:33

i'm assuming everyone is aware that every friday night a known fascist smears shit into the rear locks of the common place... every week.
rather than actually standing up to this gentleman, the common place has a bucket with a home made "shit cleaning kit" under the sink.
its been going on for at least a year, probably 2 years now.
the common place has refused countless offers of people to wait for the guy - even those who just wanted sharp words...
the common place is a lost cause...
1 cops on the board to many

smash dirty bastards

Interesting but depressing

12.10.2009 22:58

The Northern IM situation outlined above is almost as shocking as what has been happening at Leeds Common Place. I think both situations show just how easily our movement can be infiltrated and damaged. I've always thought that the Common Place, lacking any real political direction, was ripe for being taken over by authoritarians like the SWP. In fact, it seems to have been infiltrated by an authoritarian liberal or liberals, or possibly by a person or persons with an agenda controlled by the state. This is interesting, but very depressing.

V

Shit in the locks

12.10.2009 23:03

This is an example of just how pathetic the Common Place has become, that they just let this go on week after week and have done for @ 2 years. Wankers. Still we can't upset our police-friendly pacifist by any fisticuffs in the street can we?

V

more liberal nonsense on 'non-violence'

13.10.2009 09:52

take a look at how a liberal tried to co-opt indymedia's guidelines. I understand they are part of imc-northern and the common place.

https://we.riseup.net/imc-uk/incitement

read how they flounce at the end when they can't get their own way...

crabgrasser

still not true

13.10.2009 11:12

I think its really sad that Indymedia is keeping this story up, when it would be very easy for a moderator to check the facts. If anyone is reading this who actually wants to know what's going on, just ask a member of the commonplace collective. Likewise if anyone wants to express an opinion, contact the collective. This story is just another example of how this site has become a chat forum rather than a news site.

commoner

And how easy...

13.10.2009 11:20

And how easy would it be for anyone who thinks this is inaccurate to email the list for such matters?

http://lists.indymedia.org/imc-uk-moderation

...

reader

Nonviolence and its violent consequences

13.10.2009 11:22

Some pacifists may be maliciously infiltrating resistance movements but others are well intentioned if wrong. One method for dealing with this is to have leaflets about to encourage people to think about these issues. Here is one:
Nonviolence and its violent consequences:

http://www.sinkers.org/nonviolence/

It might be considered inflammatory: "Watch the claws and fangs pop out of the Nonviolence folk. They have a lot of pent-up anger, and they would much rather take it out on an honest activist than on the people who are actually destroying the earth and murdering its peasant stewards. Be careful, they'll probably report you to the police. They probably are the police."

Here's a book:
How Nonviolence protects the State:

http://www.akpress.org/2005/items/hownonviolenceprotectsthestate

I've found that being polite to pacifists is a more effective strategy for frustrating the oppressive consequences of their ideas than being rude to them.

Be nice!

Infiltrator?

13.10.2009 12:14

I was reading about infiltrators in radical groups and things to be aware of: sowing discord in a otherwise functioning group, creating divisions, delaying actions or, sometimes, encouraging risky actions. Could the person mentioned above be an infiltrator? Many people who've been arrested have been offered paid work as shit-stirrer/informer.

anon

It is ALL the SAME guy!!

13.10.2009 13:28

"take a look at how a liberal tried to co-opt indymedia's guidelines. I understand they are part of imc-northern and the common place.

https://we.riseup.net/imc-uk/incitement

read how they flounce at the end when they can't get their own way... "

It is ALL the SAME guy, and he always behaves in exactly the same way when his lies aren't believed.

Leeds Lad

More censorship from the common place

13.10.2009 13:33

"still not true
13.10.2009 11:12

I think its really sad that Indymedia is keeping this story up, when it would be very easy for a moderator to check the facts. If anyone is reading this who actually wants to know what's going on, just ask a member of the commonplace collective. Likewise if anyone wants to express an opinion, contact the collective. This story is just another example of how this site has become a chat forum rather than a news site.
commoner "

More censorious bollocks from the Common Place. One way or another what you have done will be exposed. You can see how impartial the Common PLace by the content of the e-mail in one of the early posts above and by the contents of the minutes. The only reason this scumbag has been able to infiltrate the place is because of the liberal cowards who've set themselves to run the place (into the ground.)

All touts are scum

stupid comments

13.10.2009 13:33

Ha!
The ridiculousness of the comment claiming a facist has smeared shit on a door knob every week for almost two years has compelled me to comment. The fact that people respond with belief to a story like that, and others on this page, illustrates the actual passiveness and apathy of the local "radicals". The minutes to these meetings never indicate a number of participants as high as the number of comments on this page, yet the CP organizers are being accused of all sorts of atrocities and infiltrations. The fact that these same organizers are holding a large meeting to address this issue is being treated as evidence of infiltration, rather than an attempt to open themselves up even further to a difficult discussion. Where is the critical thinking here? Where is the sense of history? This debate is ages old, should never be considered settled, and belongs in a public forum- just where the CP is placing it. What kind of anarchist believes in settling positions and then leaving them untouched? The true "dirty liberals" are those that believe in permanence of positions- radical politics have life and should be always treated as in flux. I am as outraged as the next person at blocks on anti-facist groups, but to declare the CP a lost cause is going too far. They have faced all sorts of government repression this year, and the interpretation of this is to declare them dead? A social centre is only as strong as its participants, and with all the work going into the very act of keeping the CP open, certain political elements may have been neglected. This should indicate to outsiders that the CP participants are dedicated and passionate, not the opposite, and the rally cry should be to support the CP and help bring it back to the radical social centre that many people are calling for.

silly bean

There's no mistaking who this is

13.10.2009 13:47

“If you would like to speak to one of the widows of the men who have been murdered for (allegedly) being scabs, as I have, and check that it’s OK with them for us to use this “rhetorical device”, go right ahead. Let us know how you get on.”

...

‘Could you please back up your claim about the murdered scab please?’

“I’m not wasting any more time on this; you folks do what you want.”

This is a quote from the link of ‘Crabgrasser’s above. Anyone familiar with the person concerned will recognize him. He is never shy of telling lies and then throws a strop when he is in danger of not getting his own way. How on Earth has he been allowed to take over Northern Indymedia and the Common Place?

J

Silly bean

13.10.2009 14:01

I agree with some of what ‘Silly bean’ says, but s/he is also wrong about a few things IMO. The smearing of shit in the CP locks every week for ages is well known – there’s even a special kit for getting it out. CP meetings are badly attended because they’re boring, badly-run, and because no matter how many times you attend you still keep having to deal with ONE IDIOT. Also the open meetings are not where the real decisions are made as everyone knows, the CP has been hierarchical as fuck since the beginning, and has clearly got worse. Whether or not tonight’s meeting will be “large” remains to be seen, but I have it on good authority that the user group concerned have not been invited, and we can see from the CP e-mail sent out how there has already been an attempt (perhaps unwitting) to prejudice opinion. Let’s remember though that the person causing the trouble is in a minority of one, and though the others should perhaps have stood up to him, they have not all let him go completely unchallenged.. In terms of the CP having faced all sorts of government repression – Come on! What, losing their drinks licence?! That was hardly surprising to anyone who saw how the place was run. And they’ve sacrificed a lot (not least the details of all their members) to get it back. I agree with ‘silly bean’s rallying cry, I would like to see the CP transformed into a more radical project where this kind of thing just wouldn’t go on (as it wouldn’t at the 1 in 12, Sumac, or Cowley Club), but so far I have seen little evidence of dedication and passion, just cluelessness and ineptitude. Sorry folks, but a good start would be learning how concensus really means, then rejecting this nonsence wholeheartedly, apologising to the antifascists, and maybe hold a benefit for them by way of an apology. It should go without saying that the manipulative power-freak responsible for all the trouble should be shown the welcome he has tried to extend to antifascists.

Bean and gone

Northern Indymedia

13.10.2009 14:11

My reading of all the stuff in relation to NIM is that basicaly having lost the argument nationally in relation to getting the IMC guidelines changed to ones written by the World Heath Organisation (!!!) he then flounced off and set up his own Indymedia site (Northern Indymedia) co-opting Leeds-Bradford and York and imposing the WHO guidelines to ensure posts were censored according to his personal likings.

Gav

"antifa girl"

13.10.2009 14:52

Sounds like Mad Sarah, the dodgepot girlfriend of police informer Matthew Gibbons from York, is trying to get her spoke in.

Nazi Hunter

National 'news'

13.10.2009 15:06

Why is this on the uk indymedia news wire.

It is surely of little interest to people outside Leeds.

One event was blocked (possibly / probably an abuse of consensus to do so)
The majority of the people who go to meetings disagree with what happened, they discuss it at a couple of general meetings and decide to hold a seperate meeting to sort it out once and for all and to stop it happening again.
It is happening tonight.

I'd say that the common place have a bit of a problem and are dealing with it. This thread seems to consist of a lot of unsubstantiated slander against the common place.

If you want to know what is happening at the common place then get down there yourself and find out.

Common Place Member

Support For The Common Place

13.10.2009 15:22

I agree with Common Place Member in as much that I support the Common Place and am sure this can be sorted out. As for why this is on the uk newswire I am glad it is because otherwise I wouldn't know about the meeting. Also it wouldn't have stayed on the Northern Indymedia newswire for reasons which are obvious to many. Also I think this is of interest to people outside Leeds. I also think there was more than one antifascist event blocked (not sure) - I hope it's the last. This shouldn't have happened in the first place.

Also a Common Place Member

Northern IMC and antifa

13.10.2009 15:32

there's deffo something stinky at the moment on the northern IMC, there the piece about the a.r grass gibbons and a bizarre rebuttal supposedly from york AFA defending the accused grass and calling for ''ARMED RESTANCE'' to fascists.....any further comments about the piece are censored , I tried reporting the post as a pack of lies [ the rebuttal] to no response.....Interesting

concerned of gipton

wrong stuff

13.10.2009 15:35

License - CP lost it's license partly because it didn't comply with a request to give a list of it's members to the cops. Pressure on the license from the local authorities followed screening of the political documentary 'On the Verge' - there hasn't been a single public complaint about how the Common Place has been run.

Non-hierarchical - CP ran as a completely open decision making collective for 4 years, it's now a formalised collective but not closed! - there's no joining criteria other than a commitment to share in the duties and responsibilities of running the social centre. All decision making is through the thurs collective meeting and any decisions that change the politics of the social centre are done through special members meetings ... like this one. To have a say in how CP is run - come along and join the collective and help run CP. Open and direct democracy and all that..

Shit on the locks - this happened regularly and then was stopped

freshprinceofwales

members list

13.10.2009 15:54

the membership list WAS given to the local council.
all common place members got an email about it.
that in itself is fucking shocking.

actually

let's by right

13.10.2009 15:54

"CP lost it's license partly because it didn't comply with a request to give a list of it's members to the cops."

and it complied to get it back

:(

wrong stuff

13.10.2009 16:08

The district judge ruled in court that the LCC barrister be allowed to check the members list against the signing in book - the choice was to either drop the appeal or comply? It was a really hard decision and made under stressful circumstances but it was either that or lose the appeal? The appeal gp had resisted giving the list as long as they could.

freshprinceofwales

Proof of the pudding

13.10.2009 16:09

If Leeds Common Place is so democratic and non-hierarchical how come one person could stop a long-stablished user-group from using the building. Accessible? A mose-hole would be more accessible!

Disgrunted CP user

a really hard decision and made under stressful circumstances

13.10.2009 16:14

"The district judge ruled in court that the LCC barrister be allowed to check the members list against the signing in book - the choice was to either drop the appeal or comply? It was a really hard decision and made under stressful circumstances but it was either that or lose the appeal? The appeal gp had resisted giving the list as long as they could. "

Yeah, the last time I was in a police cell they threatened me with all sorts of things if I didn't grass up my mates.

I didn't find it such a hard decision to keep shtum though

No comment

@COG

13.10.2009 16:14

Your complaint:

http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-northern-moderation/2009-October/1007-id.html

The discussion:

http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-northern/2009-October/1007-52.html

http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-northern/2009-October/1007-iy.html

.

Additions

13.10.2009 16:21

I am personally aware of at least 2 antifascist events at the Common Place being blocked. Others have said the figure is higher. I don't see why 'Commoner' should be believe anymore than anyone else. With all due respect, a lot of lies have been told against antifascists at the Common Place by at least one person.

Antifascist

Attn Commoner (additions)

13.10.2009 16:33

You may also recall that there was some earlier unpleasantness when lies were told to a common place meeting about antifascists. They were treated very badly then. Later there was an alleged attack on the common place computers for which antifascists were wrongly blamed. After all the shit they've had it surprises me that they don't simply tell the common place to fuck off.

still at the common place

S**it in locks comment

13.10.2009 16:41

"Shit on the locks - this happened regularly and then was stopped "

How was it stopped? When was it stopped? Sorry, but as far as I know it's still going on.

CPer

Hmmm

13.10.2009 16:47

"All decision making is through the thurs collective meeting and any decisions that change the politics of the social centre are done through special members meetings"

Wouldn't you say that blocking an antifascist event is a decision to change the politics of the social centre - they have been welcome in the past and played a big part in the Common Place? Hopefully this stupid decision will be reversed by the members.

Dr Doughnut

wrong stuff

13.10.2009 17:20

Antifa weren't blamed for an attack on CP. As far as I'm aware they were contacted after the CP computers were vandalised and router stolen the night before the saturday asylum seeker drop in (who come to use the computers) because signs reading 'fuck of pacifist traitors - Antifa England' had been taped to the monitors. A member of antifa said it wasn't an action of the group and that was accepted.

freshprinceofwales

Still at the common place talks such rubbish

13.10.2009 17:49

[quote]You may also recall that there was some earlier unpleasantness when lies were told to a common place meeting about antifascists. They were treated very badly then. Later there was an alleged attack on the common place computers for which antifascists were wrongly blamed. After all the shit they've had it surprises me that they don't simply tell the common place to fuck off.[/quote]

This is such bullshit. Lies weren't told at a common place meeting. Some people had legitimate concerns about something that the 635 group did at the common place. Rather than just complain about it to anyone who would listen or banning them or something the 635 group were informed that there was a problem and were invited to a meeting. A representative of the 635 group went to a meeting and it was sorted out to a certain extent.

The attack on the computers was claimed by 'antifascists' on indymedia, and physically on the computers themselves. No one knows who did it, the common place have never apportioned blame or accused anyone as no one knows who did it.

Some antifascists in Leeds have a bit of a no-one likes us we don't care attitude. They find something to get upset about then find it impossible to stick to the facts or reasoned debate and just go round slagging people and groups off. This thread is a case in point. Their thoughts and actions are a real blight on antifascist activity in Leeds (IMO).

This thread is incredible.

Get involved or shut up

14.10.2009 11:27

There seems to be a lot of useless sniping on this thread

Is that how you get your kicks? Who do you think it's helping?

If you're concerned about how the Commonplace is run then get involved and make it more like you'd like it to be. Same with Indymedia or any other "service provider" whose services you want to moan about.

If you just want to tap into the facilities and leave others to run them have the decency to make useful constructive criticisms, and be prepared for the day when there's no one left running things (e.g. York IMC) and don't invent stories about their demise.

There seems to be some exaggerating going on too (shit on locks EVERY Friday?) which is a sure sign their wonky argument needs propping up. And a case of blaming the victims too.

Bradford

Responding to above

14.10.2009 11:56

'freshprinceofwales': There was a very sinister attempt to fit up Antifa activists for an attack on the CP's computers via the attack itself and a subsequent post on Indymedia. I doubt that many people (certainly none in Antifa to my knowledge) would be capable of such an attack (which I understand was quite sophisticated.) Almost everyone saw through the attempt to fit up Antifa, which took place soon after an attack had been launched on them by the person who has caused all the trouble (one of the few knowledgeable enough to damage the CP's computers in the way it happened), who had used his usual MO to tell lies about people (fortunately well and truly rebutted.) A theory going round the CP at the time was that the real reason for the damage to the computers was that it was done to detroy evidence of spy software installed on behalf of the police to record everything that the computers were used for.

'Still at the common place talks such rubbish': YOU are talking rubbish. A Common Place meeting was lied to by the person causing all the trouble. He told a load of lies about the antifascist group he has now repeatedly attacked (the one he claimed to know nothing about last night.) These claims were also made in a letter to the group. They were lies from beginning to end and they were shown to be such.

Clearly people in Leeds and Common Place members DO like antifascists, as witnessed last night. What CP members don't like is lies, bullshit, infiltration, and the constant backstabbing coming from one person against other CP users. Nor do they like hierarchy and undemocratic manouvering behind closed doors and closed e-mail lists where one person is allowed to lie with impunity.

"Get involved or shut up ": It's useless sniping (useless to everyone but the police and the BNP) that has caused all these problems. - constant attacks on others by someone with their own agenda.

Antifascists have been very strongly involved in the Common Place project, but they have been increasingly pushed out and made unwelcome through the smears and lies of one person. High time he left or was thrown out. That would be the best fresh start the Common Place could have.

Leeds antifascist

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