fashwatch is back .. and better ;)
Durruti02 | 20.12.2009 20:40 | Anti-racism | Social Struggles | Workers' Movements
some excellent news. fashwatch has returned and has done some good thinking, thinking a few more need to do. so we now have had AFA, elements of Antifa and activists like Durruti02 all arguing that Anti-fascism has failed. seriously people if we don't get stuck into the community we are beat
http://www.fashwatch.org/?p=31
http://www.fashwatch.org/?p=31
"It is clear now at the end of 2009 that traditional forms of antifascism have failed. Tactics such as distributing propaganda and organising mass protests employed by the UAF have had no discernable effect on the trajectory of the BNP and while the militant form advocated by Antifa has achieved small victories in some areas this approach clearly has it’s limits and obvious drawbacks.
What is required is a new approach, or maybe an old approach depending on how you look at it. An article in Red Pepper recently titled Antifascism isn’t Working laid out a realistic assessment of the current situation and more importantly how best to proceed. In a nutshell the model of exposing the BNP and it’s leaders past should be replaced by exposing the ineffectiveness of their policies in tackling social problems and building alternatives. Paul Stott in a speech Giving up No Platform to the Anarchist Book Fair this year argued for the same approach.
It is as part of this current of thought that Fashwatch has been re-launched. Again we’re asking for details of fascist activity in your area but this time we don’t want names or phone numbers. We want details of their political activity, what they’re doing to win votes and the arguments they’re using.
In our section on antifascists we want to detail grass roots organisations that are working in their areas to improve conditions and that have an antifascist stance such as Haringey Solidarity and the IWCA and less well known groups such as the Pits n Pots a radical news site in Stoke on Trent and the Hereford Heckler.
The aim is to use Fashwatch as a resource for analysing the BNP and other far right groups and opposition to them. To look at the initiatives that have been employed by local groups who are opposed to the BNP. What has been successful and what has been less than successful."
What is required is a new approach, or maybe an old approach depending on how you look at it. An article in Red Pepper recently titled Antifascism isn’t Working laid out a realistic assessment of the current situation and more importantly how best to proceed. In a nutshell the model of exposing the BNP and it’s leaders past should be replaced by exposing the ineffectiveness of their policies in tackling social problems and building alternatives. Paul Stott in a speech Giving up No Platform to the Anarchist Book Fair this year argued for the same approach.
It is as part of this current of thought that Fashwatch has been re-launched. Again we’re asking for details of fascist activity in your area but this time we don’t want names or phone numbers. We want details of their political activity, what they’re doing to win votes and the arguments they’re using.
In our section on antifascists we want to detail grass roots organisations that are working in their areas to improve conditions and that have an antifascist stance such as Haringey Solidarity and the IWCA and less well known groups such as the Pits n Pots a radical news site in Stoke on Trent and the Hereford Heckler.
The aim is to use Fashwatch as a resource for analysing the BNP and other far right groups and opposition to them. To look at the initiatives that have been employed by local groups who are opposed to the BNP. What has been successful and what has been less than successful."
Durruti02
Additions
Some clarification from Fashwatch and a comment on Durruti02
23.12.2009 16:16
It's very early days for the new fashwatch, consider what's up so far to be more a statement of intent, an early Christmas present if you like.
Over the coming weeks we are trying to make contact with as many organisations that are active in their communities and opposed to fascism - even, in fact especially if they don't spend all their time screaming about the fact.
We want to build a national picture of what the BNP are doing on the ground, the arguments they employ in a given situation and the POLITICAL tactics being used to counter their efforts.
The only similarity we have with redwatch is the word watch, we will not be publishing peoples details and advocating violence.
Fashwatch is not about a militant response nor is it about arguing about the merits or drawbacks of that kind of response. We have made our decision about the kind of direction we think that anti fascism needs to take to be successful and we are working to play a part in that.
http://www.redpepper.org.uk/Anti-fascism-isn-t-working Wasn't written by fashwatch but sums up the situation and the way forward as we see it.
The argument about the EDL and Durruti02 is silly in the extreme. Durruti02 has a different analysis of the EDL, this does not make him a "neo nazi troll" he just happens to disagree with us about the EDL. That hasn't stopped him from posting this article about our re-launch and it didn't stop us telling him we were going to do it before the site went live. The first track back we had to the site was a link to our EDL article being used as a stick to beat Durruti02 with. Get a grip, if we had to agree on everything to work together we'd a be a lot of groups of one.
As for the MI6 badge of honour comment there's just one piece advice - Don't tell us anything you wouldn't tell a copper. The fact is we aren't interested in any illegal activity you might have been up to, much more interesting to us would be an account of some debt support work you've done or an argument you've had with the BNP about a local issue.
Hopefully this clarifies what we're about and what we aim to achieve. Any ideas or comments are welcome.
Fashwatch.
Over the coming weeks we are trying to make contact with as many organisations that are active in their communities and opposed to fascism - even, in fact especially if they don't spend all their time screaming about the fact.
We want to build a national picture of what the BNP are doing on the ground, the arguments they employ in a given situation and the POLITICAL tactics being used to counter their efforts.
The only similarity we have with redwatch is the word watch, we will not be publishing peoples details and advocating violence.
Fashwatch is not about a militant response nor is it about arguing about the merits or drawbacks of that kind of response. We have made our decision about the kind of direction we think that anti fascism needs to take to be successful and we are working to play a part in that.
http://www.redpepper.org.uk/Anti-fascism-isn-t-working Wasn't written by fashwatch but sums up the situation and the way forward as we see it. The argument about the EDL and Durruti02 is silly in the extreme. Durruti02 has a different analysis of the EDL, this does not make him a "neo nazi troll" he just happens to disagree with us about the EDL. That hasn't stopped him from posting this article about our re-launch and it didn't stop us telling him we were going to do it before the site went live. The first track back we had to the site was a link to our EDL article being used as a stick to beat Durruti02 with. Get a grip, if we had to agree on everything to work together we'd a be a lot of groups of one.
As for the MI6 badge of honour comment there's just one piece advice - Don't tell us anything you wouldn't tell a copper. The fact is we aren't interested in any illegal activity you might have been up to, much more interesting to us would be an account of some debt support work you've done or an argument you've had with the BNP about a local issue.
Hopefully this clarifies what we're about and what we aim to achieve. Any ideas or comments are welcome.
Fashwatch.
Fashwatch
e-mail:
info@fashwatch.org
Homepage:
http://www.fashwatch.org
Comments
Hide the following 27 comments
But Durruti02
20.12.2009 22:05
I would also add I have no fear of yourself and your actions, as I pointed out to you in private, there is a debate on Ian,s Blog something you was calling for the whole of last week I very much look foreword to your reply, and as said I very much agree with what you say in knee-jerk-anti-fascism, but disagree with the fact The EDL are not racist.
underclassrising.net
Nice
20.12.2009 22:24
Anyway, good to see Fash Watch back up and running!
Insurrectionist
More on the EDL - and well done Fashwatch!
21.12.2009 12:39
And well done Fashwatch! Excellent to see it back in a new, much more meaningful form. I think it will prove an excellent resource.
higs
Fashwatch
21.12.2009 13:39
Good to have the group back and great to see that they've developed a more cogent analysis of the situation as well as making links with other anti-fascist and working class grass roots organisations.
Villa Anti-Fascist
Stickers?
21.12.2009 18:53
Iron Column
@higs
21.12.2009 21:26
and no!! not in the slightest!! what they represent is MORE dangerous than the BNP as imho the BNP being quasi-fascist and a clear fascist history and clearly racist will not take a hold of the majority. EDL type loyalism is far worse as it represents a position that the millions more are sympathetic too, a loyalty to the state, that allowed the mass murder of WW1, and is allowing the state currently tgo get away with their wars in Iraq and Afghan. It is the mentality that voted for Thatcher, that supported the UDM against the NUM that will provide the divison the state needs when the shit hits the fan.
My point has ALWAYS been though that as they are NOT overtly racist or fascist and because much of what they say is fair enough ( anti jihadi and for secularism etc) and because they represent what has become the middle ground, they need to be related to very differently than overtly fascist groups .. and sorry but tbh it says a lot about the @/activist movement and it's low level of politics that people cannot grasp this simple concept
D02
Great stuff
21.12.2009 23:39
Egele
Durruti02
22.12.2009 09:47
"Accomodating to the EDL? where when how??? "
You claim you don't support the EDL but then say they are not racist? And the BNP are "quasi-fascist"?
Are you some kind of fascist troll who is pretending to support the left whilst pushing this idea that the BNP "have some, but not all of the features of fascism", and that the EDL are "not racist" when they shout "I hate p*kis more than you" to Asian people in the street.
You talk about the EDL causing divisions but I think you are talking about yourself mate.
Anon
@anon
22.12.2009 11:57
"Indeed, we want above all to welcome them [asians] as fellow Englishmen, and deplore only hate preachers such as the vile Anjem Choudry, who insists that the most important distinction is between Muslims and non-Muslims, and troublemakers such as Salma Yaqoob, who is trying to keep Asians from integrating in order to secure for herself a permanent power base in that community. We understand that many Asians or their ancestors came here to escape oppressive laws in other countries, and we hope that in the future they will stand with us against bringing those laws here to Britain.
We believe that this movement has reached a major milestone in Manchester, and we hope now that the citizens of England, along with our Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Irish cousins, regardless of race or religion, will feel comfortable in joining with us against radical Islam and the division that it preaches and breeds in our communities without fear of being ignorantly and incorrectly branded as racist or Nazi. We believe that as our message reaches more and more of the ordinary people of Britain, we will continue to gain support from across the political and social spectrum. Our goal is to have all the people of Britain united in telling the extremists themselves and our woefully inactive government that there is no place for radical Islam in our society."
this is potentially dangerous stuff as it fits entirely with the state's agenda .. it is not racist not fascist though
D02
In defence of Durruti02
22.12.2009 12:18
Villa Anti-fascist
Pah!
22.12.2009 13:27
Durruti thinks we should get the racists and loyalists on side by working in our communities to provide an alternative to the BNP and EDL (I personally think that by the time they've actually physically joined the demos its too late) , rather than opposing them when they take to the streets in demos that will inevitably result in racist clashes.
I think that there is a strong case for both tactics to take place. Durruti continually displays an arrogant disrespect for diversity of tactics.
Durruti doesn't recognise his own Islamophobia, which is why he doesn't recognise the racism that is integral to the EDL.
ftp
@ villa anti fascist
22.12.2009 13:33
Ok i'd invert that to 1/3 fasc and 2/3 kids on the demos ( ignoring swansea which was imho differrent) . that's how it comes across. And re the 5 organisers I am not aware that Tommy Robinson or Joel Titus or Jeff Marsh or Leisha Brookes are fascists or have every been accused of being fascists and while people say Trevor Kelway is i have not yet seen the links in print. the other active organiser i believe is Matthew Kaplan who is an american jewish zionist. However they all keep nasty company at the very least. Their facebook friends are full of BNP and NF supporters.
But my point has always been their platform. That is where you have to start. people have made that mistake with the BNP, thinking they are classic fascist when they are, as you say, are not, and now with the EDL. It is how you deal with them
is is good that the debate seems to be moving on :)
D02
@ftp
22.12.2009 14:07
2) i have never argued we should not demonstrate when the EDL are in town simply that attempts to attack them physically or attack them as fascists backfire.
And it is never to late to create community campaigns. i have argued consistently that any attempt by the EDL to enter a muslim area should be resisted physically.
3) yes i do have a disregard for not diversity of tactics but tactics that backfire and tactics that have been seen to fail. And FTP who here has banned discussion? me or you?? You were key to hiding/banning/censoring my critique of 'kneejerk anti-fascism' . I critique, I argue against but do not censor or ban as you have done.
4) islamophobic? oh my here we go! i am certainly not islamophobic and also recognise entirely how EDL probably are. But fear of something is not racism.
D02
Clash of the civilisations?
22.12.2009 14:55
Okay - so explain how you target the same 'extremists' that the state is vigorously targeting by holding a demo in Newport or Nottingham. Is Choudary there, or that 'troublemaker' Salma Yaqoob (from the quote you gave above.....) What is her link to Islamism?
And what is your problem with Shariah courts? Do you have the same problem with Beth Din?
"No more mosques" - are you ok with that slogan? Is it ok to stand outside a synagogue with a sign saying "No more synagogues"?
On Urban 75 you said that Indymedia should be 'tighter' with "the anti-zionist stuff that some people would categorise as antgi-semetic" (refer to your third point above)
and in an email to moderation you stated that: "it is clear that in terms of jews race and religion are almost entirely the same"
which is the exact opposite of what is argued on
"Jews are clearly not a race.
Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. You can't change your race; it's in your DNA. I could never become black or Asian no matter how much I might want to."
And of course, in the same way that there are muslims of different races, there are Jews of different races. Not to mention the fact that many people who regard themselves as jewish are secular.
So, how is that you see attacking a political ideology could be discriminatory (when it is zionism), and yet that attacking a religion (Islam) is not?
You are happy to smear Indymedia publicly as being anti-semitic because it has anti-zionist posts - (and I challenge you to find a post that is anti-semitic) and yet you repeatedly insist that the EDL is not (on paper nor in action) racist despite the fact that racist actions and racists have been a feature of every single EDL demo?
ftp
@DO2
22.12.2009 15:01
It's obvious that the EDL platform is not a fascist or racist one but then who in their right mind would form a group which overtly states such principles in 21st century britain, the fact that those attending the demo's are largely far-right or supportive of the far-right is the issue, the EDL need these people and they know it, their platform doesn't admit any far-right ideology but it encourages it. If the EDL were to ban the far-right from their demos, something they are clearly not willing to do despite the propaganda then there's more chance of them getting turned over by the opposition, they need the far-right casuals and they know it.
You say that 1/3 are BNP/right wing and the other 2/3 are kids but these "kids" who are mostly between the ages of 16 and 25 also tend to support the BNP and are racist or happy to befriend racists in their perceived battle against Islam and increasingly what they see as the left. Just because they're eligible to join club 18-30 it doesn't mean they aren't capable of making allegiances or associating with political groups
Villa anti-fash
Illiberal
22.12.2009 15:14
Whatever tactics 'anti-fascists' adopt is irrelevant. Far right groups will always have a tiny following in this country, just as far left ones will. The vast majority of us ignore them all and certainly don't need self-appointed public guardians such as the UAF to protect us from anyone's views.
'Anti-fascism' should be confined to the campus and enjoyed as a hobby of idealistic students. It has no real place in wider society, especially in its current disruptive, anti-free speech manifestation.
Pete
@ villain
22.12.2009 15:43
1) yes they are happy to allow the far right on their demos but within limits by the look of it.
2) " It's obvious that the EDL platform is not a fascist or racist one" saying this is what got my article banned by the undemocratic Moderators
3) the next bit i am not so sure of .. yes they want the casuals and thousends of them but not the political far right ones .. i think they feel they can build a movement on loyal types ( not yet loyalist politically let alone fascist) .. while wigan mike was active with EDL he was not a mod and clearly they were many who had a problem with his presence. like with any group they are not homogenous and there are tensions
4) yes these kids do probabaly support the BNP but they are not fascists or politically racist and doubt they know enough about Islam to be politically racist or anti Islam but just along for the ride
and the real crime that flies totally over the heads of the middle class activists that dominate Indymedia is that while they busied themselves with SHAC, Zippos, EDO and all their other barely relevent hobbyhorses the racist and fascist scum have been organsing in the communities and we are reaping the result of it on the streets
D02
Clash of the civilisations Part 2
22.12.2009 16:35
"yes i do have a disregard for not diversity of tactics but tactics that backfire and tactics that have been seen to fail."
Durruti02@15:43
"and the real crime that flies totally over the heads of the middle class activists that dominate Indymedia is that while they busied themselves with SHAC, Zippos, EDO and all their other barely relevent hobbyhorses the racist and fascist scum have been organsing in the communities and we are reaping the result of it on the streets"
Thats you demonstrating your disregard for diversity of tactics yet again.
And of course, all of us 'middle-class activists' only do one thing with our activism.
Anyway, why doesn't your arrogant Islamophobic personality point us at the kind of project we would be doing if we were as clued up as you?
Cos that'd be really helpful.
ftp
@DO2 & liberal Pete
22.12.2009 16:39
Liberal Pete wrote
"Perhaps not many people are impressed by the antics of the 'anti-fascists' because they act in such an arrogant, authoritarian, elitist and illiberal manner. "
We aren't liberals mate, liberals are the lo who just stand by and let the likes of the EDL bowl through their streets or the BNP campaign in their area, however i am happy to listen to your viewpoint.
"Whatever tactics 'anti-fascists' adopt is irrelevant. Far right groups will always have a tiny following in this country, just as far left ones will. The vast majority of us ignore them all and certainly don't need self-appointed public guardians such as the UAF to protect us from anyone's views."
The same thing liberals were saying 20 years ago, we now have 2 BNP members in the EU parliament and over 70 councillors. You can ignore the far-right all you want, i don't personally care what you do, perhaps they aren't in your community smashin up asian owned shops, attacking ethnic minorities, dividing your community or causing trouble down your football club, in that case it probably doesn't matter to you if you ignore them or not.
"'Anti-fascism' should be confined to the campus and enjoyed as a hobby of idealistic students. It has no real place in wider society, especially in its current disruptive, anti-free speech manifestation. "
That's like saying all political or social discussion should be maintained within the halls of academia. Basically what you're trying to say is stop talking about or acting against fascists and the rise of the far-right in Britain. I don't think you're going to get any support mate!
Villa anti-fascist
The PDL
22.12.2009 16:47
The “Palestinian Defence League” (PDL) are a purportedly militant anti-Zionist street movement of mainly young Asian men. There are also a few white men who come along, some who even claim to be Jewish but say they are fervently anti-Zionist. They have organised many protests in towns and cities where high concentrations of Jews live. In particular they have targeted the streets Golders Green in London, a popular hang out for many Jews, and also the New West End Synagogue which has a strongly pro-Zionist stance. They march through the streets with Kefiyehs covering their faces and they shout “Jewish Terrorists off our streets!”, one young man was recorded on video being bundled into a bus by the police singing “I hate Yids more than you!”. On their website they have expressed anger at ‘how the British state has capitulated to Jewish extremism’ describing what they say as ‘political correctness gone too far’. Last week they featured on the Newsnight programme where they met a reporter in a disused warehouse. They state they are not anti-semitic, and set fire to a Hamas flag to make their point. Their protests have been met across the country by angry mobs of Jewish people, many belonging to the Zionist Federation who want to fight what they describe as “a mixture of crypto-islamofascism and antisemitism” and running street battles have occurred in 3 cities now. They have been widely criticised for targeting Jews rather than zionists, and their claims of not being antisemitic have been condemned as “transparent”. There are concerns that this group are gaining a grip on the minds of young, impressionable and disillusioned Muslim youths.
Mike D
Yes Fictional Mike
22.12.2009 17:00
Whats more while your analogy may be tongue in cheek it reads like it's been written from the perspective of EDL. For a start the analogy of those opposing the EDL being the Islamic equivalent of Zionist suggests that you only think Islamic extremists have been out on the streets opposing the EDL. Nice try Mike D but you need to try harder!!
BruisedShins
Re: Yes Fictional Mike
22.12.2009 18:38
Couldn't agree more.
"Whats more while your analogy may be tongue in cheek...."
Yep. Anjem Choudhary? IDF? What are you talking about? : )
Mike D
actually
22.12.2009 21:25
stefano milano
nothing wrong with Islamophobia...
23.12.2009 01:28
All religion is brainwashing nonsense with about as much basis in reality as Father Christmas or the tooth fairy.
The sooner people stop believing the world is controlled by invisible people in the sky the better.
anon
Rolleyes
23.12.2009 16:24
yeah - that'll beat the fash.
If you're going to do hours of paperwork, then surely decent prop would reach more people than setting up the infrastructure to enable debt support work?
Olsen
Confused
28.12.2009 13:10
Billy
Anti-Fascism
18.01.2010 01:24
John