Sea Shepherd Runs Rings Around Prison

Against Sea Shepherd

13.03.2010 12:53

The SHAC 7 are heroes, I'd see them as class war prisoners, so Dan should be supported in this. It's a shame though that he's decided to support anti working class group Sea Shepherd. Despite their bravery in opposition to whaling, Sea Shepherd campaign against migrant workers.

Captain Watson Speaks to the Nation on Population and Immigration

http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/editorial-060518-1.html

Anarchist Positions and Work on the Question of Immigration (Historical and Current)

http://libcom.org/forums/theory/anarchist-positions-work-question-immigration-historical-current-22122009

One of No Borders

INDEPENDENT concerns

13.03.2010 13:12

It's not that some of the animal rights people and some of the environment people are AGAINST the left. It's simply that they aren't for it either. They are taking a "plague on both your houses" position. They aren't saying that socialist solutions CAN'T be more compatible with reaching balance with Nature than capitalism. Just that this isn't guaranteed just because socialist.

Not AGAINST you per se although obvously on specific issues (like population, free migration isntead of being forced to come into sustainable balance) they will disagree. That's because they are DISREGARDING the consequences of such positions with regard to the battles you want to see fought.

You can't "draft" allies. We of the left need to learn how to work with others whose concerns are different from our own. Need to end the attitude "everybody who isn't an ally is an enemy". It's not a USEFUL attitude. If you attack somebody as your enemy they will respond by becoming your enemy, no longer a neutral.

Sea Shepherd isn't ANTI working class. They simply don't give a damn about that fight.

MDN

Dan Amos is upper middle class.

13.03.2010 15:24

Class war doesn't come into this for poeple like him. It does my head in when people mention SHACers like Alan Buttle [brought up very well to do, great big fucking house] and Dan Amos [same as Alan] and Class War etc in the same breath.

Don't wanna see you posh toffs at any more Class War protests , OK lads? Mockney never works on the real people.

I agree with No Borders stance about class and the migrant workers though. People matter too.

I support the rights of animals not be harmed and used before all you vegans shout at me in capital letters.

: )

anon

Not possible to be 'non-political'

13.03.2010 15:57

Captain whoever he is on the link posted says:

'I don't hold right or left political values. I speak from an ecological perspective. Being concerned about population growth in the United States is an ecologically-correct position. There is nothing political about it.'

Given that it is capitalism which is currently trashing the planet, this is bollox.

Double bollox as the sole carbon neutral and sustainable country at the moment, like it or not, is Cuba.

commie

Doing a "mockney" does suck, that said some working class families become

13.03.2010 15:59

middle or ruling class oligarchs & visa versa, it happens period.

You can get good people in all 3, the working classes yes are more exploited & generally more honest, but you get facist pricks& in noobs in all 3.

As Crass would say, working class,middleclass its all a load of shit, its all a load of shit:)

Ex Coastgaurd Captain Watson can be a nooby prick when it comes to borders & population control,in his own personal capacity& says vague daft flipant things regarding that like the world population should be 300million or so, but he doesnt know how we can achieve tha,vvvvv dodgy!. Maybe he has clarified since, people in Sea shep should pull him up on it!
Its a major reason why I might have problems volunteering for sea shep & why I havent donated any cash, despite having sea&metal work experience.

He maybe a good sea captain & helps save thousands of whales+ his actions show he cares for all life, definetely no nazi, but Mathusian comments he makes are very helpful for nazis

Green Syndicalist

LOL

13.03.2010 16:01

you say it like half of class war in the uk ar not brought up in rather well to do circumstances, its not where your from its where your going u ignorant prick. rather have a toff burning down a bank than someone 'working class' sat around drinking brew.

LCW

By the way

13.03.2010 16:07

... you seem to have the wrong Dan. On the ARP website it says the person doing this running is Dan Wadham, not Dan Amos

commie

Lack of class understanding

13.03.2010 16:50

Yet again, I am shocked at the failure to understand class and class stuggle on indymedia.
Your class position is not determined by where you're born. It is determined by your relationship to the means of production. If you work for a boss and the product of your labour is his/hers, you are working class - doesn't matter whether you're 'proper wurking clarse' and speak with a particular accent; doesn't matter whether you're a manual labourer or a teacher or doctor.

As for the article, yes it seems like elements of the animal rights movement is anti-working class, certainly none of it seems to take on a class struggle analysis, and they wrongly use anarchist language and imagery. And I say this as someone who is concerned about animal welfare, and don't eat meat.

(A)

re: "The United States has the highest population growth rate of any nation"

13.03.2010 17:34

Sea Shepherd do a great job with the whaling, but Paul Watson is a unpleasant bigot when it comes to immigration, though I suspect it comes from a general misanthropic angle rather than straightforward racism. People moving from A to B doesn't increase the global population at all; it's people breeding that does that. I wonder how many offspring Watson has, out of interest?

also, from the linked article:

http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/editorial-060518-1.html
"The United States has the highest population growth rate of any nation with a 1.3% annual increase"

this website begs to differ, it claims the USA is 137th in the world in terms of population growth:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_pop_gro_rat-people-population-growth-rate

anon

It's a fucking complicated mess...

13.03.2010 18:15

Alright all, I'm gonna attempt to drive into this mess,

I'm writing this as someone's that crewed on SS, and also that considers themselves an anarchist - with all that means in relation to ecology, anti-statism, anti-borders, class struggle, etc.

I agree with the comment immediately above about the lack of understanding about class. You can see it amongst lots of 'activist' groups around the UK, it barely gets talked about, and when it does it gets used in a way that really means 'privilege' which I think is more a social background use of class.

Of course that's relevant, especially when talking about internal dynamics within groups, but the one definition that matters to me is the one that uses class to describe your relationship to power within society. Hence: students, the unemployed, 'middle class' people with 'crap' jobs, etc, don't count as the enemy to me. I suppose ultimately what I think is there's really 2 classes that matter - the ruling elite/upper class, who manage and profit from capitalism/civilisation, and the rest of us that are fucked over and have to sell our labour to survive in it. Of course there's blurry lines...

Onto SS then... to be honest, while I have immense respect (tempered with a huge dose of cynicism and criticism) for Paul Watson and SS and what he/the organisation has done over the years for ecology, I do accept his politics are pretty fucking awful in lots of ways.

Infact I actually don't really even see them as part of a 'radical anarchist movement' as such (for want of a better definition), more as a slightly better/more militant Greenpeace/FoE etc. which while achieving some 'good' things, are all ultimately incredibly single issue, and outside the bounds of the struggle that I think we need to change the world.

Ex-Sea Shepherd crew

on population

13.03.2010 19:14

no borders on the population question:

http://shiftmag.co.uk/?p=118

one of no borders

But only half of the argument

13.03.2010 19:27

"Given that it is capitalism which is currently trashing the planet, this is bollox."

But "Commie", that's not enough. We need to MAKE the case that our socialism will be any better. Any form of socialism/communism. In other words JUST claiming (perhaps correctly) that no solutions for getting into balance exist under capitalism isn't enough unless you want to argue that ALL socialist/communist alternatives lead to that balance.

The first line is good enough reason for "deep greens" not to be SUPPORTING capitalism. Not enough for reason to support our side UNLESS we indicate why our alternatives do include concern for the environment. Why SHOULD they listen when what is said "first we deal with social injustice issues and then, when the class war has been won, we'll worry about environmantal problems if they didn't magically disappear as artifcats of capitalism"? Would YOU accept "first we get back inot balance with the environment and then we'll wiorry about any remaining social injustice issues"?

Now about the "anarchist" issue, who is or who isn't. I hate to have to break this to you but anarchism isn't INCLUDED within the economic left-right spectrum. SOME anarchists can be thought of as part of the "left" but others not. When the terms "left" and "right" are applied to anarchism usually that means "collective" vs "strictly individual". The so called right wing anarchists are of course NOT authoritarian and NOT properly associated with "capitalism" (a corporation is a CLOOECTIVE entity). A completely different spectrum (all anarchists are on the elft end of the libertarian vs authoritarian spectrum).

MDN

captain

13.03.2010 22:59

And this is why we should de-voice all captains.

fly poster

I support watson on marine conservation, not immigration.

14.03.2010 01:09

I think what he is saying is "stop immigrants coming here, lest they adopt our filthy lifestyle, and contribute to trashing the planet as we do" It fails to address the issue of the western lifestyle trashing the plant, whilst offering the solution, keeping our luxury as our sole prerogative. This is certainly contrary to an egalitarian "human" world.

However Watson dose do a good job with Sea Shepherd, and Sea Shepherd dose do a good job in marine conservation. Nature is it's self not egalitarian. Big fish eat little fish. It's not fair. it's just how it is.

The fact that the earths human population had doubled with one generation, is a fact that needs consideration when considering humans impact on the earths ecosystems. It is part of the jigsaw. How big a part is debatable but it is an issue which Watson is brave enough to comment on, where as all the other eco. NGO's avoid it completely as if it dosen't exits.

I personally find Watson's rationale on immigration pretty repugnant but that won't stop me supporting Sea Shepard. In politics we need allies on common issues, who may be enemies on other issues. We need to share our ideas with people who don't already, for them to flourish. If you worked exclusively with people whom you agreed with on absolutely everything you would work alone.

anarchist, a self employed person who works alone

It's Dan Wadham not Dan Amos...and Dan's working class & a good guy ok folks?

14.03.2010 17:09

From the flyer:

Defending Ocean Wildlife and Habitats Worldwide

Dan's Sponsored Marathon

On 5 / 04 / 2010

Raising money For Sea Shepherd UK

Hi, my name is Dan, I'm currently in prison serving 5 years for offences in connection with the campaign against HLS.
On April 15th I will be running 26 miles [130 laps of my wing] in aid of Sea Shepherd - the brave activists who defend ocean life all over the world.
Please support their work by sending sponsorships to :

ARPS [Animal Rights Prisoner Support]
PO Box 2174
Leigh-On-Sea
Essex
SS9 0AZ

Cheques should be made payable to Sea Shepherd

or online at my Just Giving page:

http://www.justgiving.com/DanWadham

Please support Sea Shepherd and Dan Wadham in this. Dan's doing an incredible thing here and he deserves respect for it. [He is a working class lad who's doing it for the animals].

anon In POGOs cafe....

UK Indymedia