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How to deal with the EDL

(A) Sab x | 21.03.2010 18:10 | Social Struggles

A UAF meeting in Bristol was recently disrupted by some EDL supporters. While SWP students were happy to simply wail 'nazi scum' in hysterical voices, for some of us, it has opened up some interesting questions about how to deal with the rank and file of the EDL. Below are the orginial post, and some of the responses from Bristol Indymedia - hopefully this can start a debate about the different ways we can deal with the EDL - Discuss!

The following is a report by a young postal worker that he sent to Billy Hayes of the CWU:
I am just writing to inform you about an incident that took place at a UAF meeting at the Railway Club in Bristol last night (17th March). In the very same room that you gave a speech in a couple of weeks ago.

The meeting which started at 730pm was arranged to discuss election strategy and to build support for the counter fascist operation that is taking place in Bolton this Saturday. Weyman Bennett was due to speak at this meeting but pulled out at the last minute. It was a public meeting and it was advertised as such. When i arrived there were about 35 people in attendance the usual type of people you would expect at meetings like this. Rob Wotherspoon (CWU), Trade Unionists, SWP, Socialist Party and Labour party members. The meeting was running a bit late as the replacement Guest speakers train was running late.

In the mean time 5 rather stocky looking guys one them had a skin head walked into the room. Obviously alarm bells started ringing they were all half drunk as well. They sat down to join the meeting, I had my eye on them as i am sure everyone else did. The chap with the skin head started to film the meeting on his mobile phone which the chair too acceptation too. then all of sudden another stocky looking entered the room, then another, then two more and then one more. the spread themselves around the room, to almost surround us . All in all I would say there were about 10 of them in the room at this stage and later I was told there were 3 or 4 waiting outside the club. I think we were all just waiting for the flash point at this stage.

The meeting was then opened to debate, there was a couple of contributions from the floor. then the ringleader indicated and was allowed to speak. He announced that he was from the EDL, That he was a serving Soldier. He said he was here because he had serious problem with UAF campaigning against them and that they were not racists or fascists the were anti-Islamic extremists . A few voices were raised in the audience, a few swear words were used by the EDL leader. The Chair did his best to maintain control of the meeting but the meeting deteriorated. Insults were flying around people were going chest to chest a few chairs were pushed around. the chap with the skin head resumed filming and taking photographs of everybody and then the Police were eventually called. I am sure that all this in on youtube today I haven’t looked yet.

While we were waiting for the Police to arrive I was chatting to one of the EDL members and to be honest with you they did not have a political argument between them. I asked the question what do you mean by Islamic fundamentalism? He couldn’t tell me. They all took offense to being called racists or fascists which surprised me. To be honest with you I think most of them had genuine gripes. The chat I spoke to was a Plummer who has been out of work since last May. Another EDL member was talking about the afghan and iraq wars. What I am saying is that there were a lot of waivers amongst them. a lot of them are clearly not Fascists the are just been used and manipulated by Fascists for thier own Political aims and objectives.

One thing about the tactics of the EDL. These guys were not from Bristol, some were sent to the meeting from a place in Wiltshire called Calne. I can only speculate why the didn’t send their members from Bristol, Maybe they didn’t want to expose there Identities at this stage from some reason. I think they may also have been hoping Wayman Bennett would be there.

For them I think they would class this operation as a success, they had a few beers, they stopped our meeting for 45 mins and they intimidated us. To be honest with it was one of the most frightening experiences of my life.

On the plus side it has exposed to me what they are all about, these are very dangerous individuals. So anyone holding a future UAF meeting, please make sure they have the numbers there to protected themselves. ultimately our meeting reconvened after they left so they really didn’t achieve much no matter what they may think.

This my account of what happened, as I have mentioned Rob was there as well so he may have things to add that I might have missed

A mate of mine was at this meeting, and we have since had chats about how best to deal with the EDL. He told me alot of the key facts in the above report -

* Most of them REALLY hate being called racist/facist
*No coherant political arguments between them
*One or two were dickheads, but most seemed to want to debate
*Unemployed/alienated/frustrated white working class composotion

This throws up some really interesting questions about how to deal with them, as they are clearly mostly just fustrated at the situation they find themselves in, and are being manipulated by a minority of real facists at the top of the organisation. Also, as they are recruited from footie firms, many are up for a tear up, and are happy at being given this thin veneer of an excuse (obviously, footie violence itself is an expression of powerlessness and alienation). The problem with reaching out to EDL foot soldiers is that the peer pressure and camraderie amongst footie firms is hard to break through.

I think just confronting this lot and screaming 'nazis' at them may just push them further into the arms of the facists (although obviously we need to defend against them ideologically and on the streets).

Contraversial though it may be, I'm up for dialogue with the average EDL member, as I think they suffer from the same worries and concerns as the rest of us (alienation, frustration at the system, lack of representation etc), but are chanelling it in a really stupid way.

Anyway - I would like to start a dialogue on this, coz I think this lot need much more careful handling than your everyday fash.

Comments ?


I think you raise some very important points, and one's that I'd considered before now.

I'd say a majority of people on EDL demo's aren't facists, and many really don't consider themseleves racist, but they're hardly going to listen to alternative view points if the only alternative they see is a bunch of UAF people screaming that they're BNP NAZI's (when many of the induviduals dont consider themselves either).

I also don't think its enough to point out that several induviduals are high up in EDL and BNP, especially when to many people the BNP are seeming more and more like a credible political organisation.

I think whats more important is getting into a political debate about what the leadership of the EDL is really after, and what a group like it does/will/can achieve, because IMO the answers run something along the lines of:
distracting and deviding the working class giving the bosses/politicians even more of a chance to screw us all over.
demonising all muslims, thus lending credablity to the governments 'war effort' in afghanistan, helping them prolong the conflict there and send more young working class people to die in the middleeast.
scapegoating muslims in the UK for the increasing problems in this country - stopping peopel from targetting the real reasons behind them.
Inreasing racial tensions, allowing groups like the BNP to seem 'needed' in political power to 'control' the outbreaks.
acting as a recruitment drive for the hardline facist elements involved.

Another important question that i find myself wanting to ask when EDL activists swear that their organisation is really nothing to do with crazy NF/B&H/etc nazi's is: "then why the **** do you let them come to your demo's?!".
If they showed up at any demo's i attended they'd be chased of the streets, if your not nazi's why let nazi's into your ranks? (the obvious answer being 'because most of our leadership are facists or sympathisers and want these people to attend').

Went into a bit more of a ramble there then i planned too... but basicly i think its important for anyone who seriously wants to tackle the 'rise of facism' in the uk to not just target the EDL physically in the streets but to target their members idelogically, and more importantly to target their *potential* new members within our communities and neighboring working class communitites.


Well, i hate to say i told you so, but there's been a minority within anti-fascism who have been saying similar things for years, that this isn't old fashioned fascism as we know it, but something a little different, if still quite ugly and in need of resistance.

The crude version is that the left has lost interest in 'white' politics, and has been almost exclusively focussed on 'non-white' politics for years, as well as 'non-white men' politics in particular. Everyone but white men have been treated as deserving of the time and efforts of activism to the point that it is easy to have some sympathy with this frustration and sense of alienation of white working class white men, to narrow it down further, both from the state, and the concerns of activism.

Yes, we all know that white men have traditionally been seen as the ones inflicting discrimation on everyone else, including white women, who are still seen as deserving of activist time, but there is a certain point where this in turn does start becoming a form of discrimination in itself, if all white men in particular are tarred with the same brush.

Something of a self-fulfilling prophesy to an extent, which requires anti-fascists, and activists acknowledging that to an extent, what has also become crudely known as political correctness, is in danger of being seen as little do with equality, but is instead seen as a contradictory and discriminatory crusade against white men.

But, i grew tired some years ago of being shouted down, as an anti-fascist, whenever i raised such concerns.

So, not only have anti-fascists, to some extent, driven people into the arms of fascists, they have also deactivated (at least in terms of being active within established groups) other anti-fascists, by routinesly shouting down this kind of debate for years!

If this is a glimmer of light within that, then there is a need to replicate that everywhere.

And to stop shouting down other anti-fascists who want that debate!


Please add your own comments

(A) Sab x


Hide the following 19 comments

Islam is not a RACE. The EDL are not racists.

21.03.2010 18:53

Islam is not a race. Would you call people who protest againat the Church of Scientology racist?

The EDL aren't racist...the UAF lies are not working any more.


latest comment from B-indymedia

21.03.2010 18:54

All this is just my opinion, i'm not saying it's right, it's just what i think. It does go on a bit, but i'd be very interested in hearing what people think if they can finish it.

Terrace fighting isnt about 'expressing powerlessness', it's about the rush, two tribes going to war, young men making a reputation and old men playing at army and pretending they've still got it (which they aint, otherwise they would have joined the real army, or got out of it and moved on 20 years ago when the smart ones did).

The EDL dont like to be called racist because thats not what they think its about - hate is not a noble reason to fight, neither is fear or hopelessness, so in order for it to be worthwhile it has to be for a Noble Cause. So it's dressed up as something more - a defence of England against invaders, fighting on the home front while 'our boys' grind out a point in the away leg.

The EDL call themselves nationalist, which seems different. Nationalism is a positive thing, about community, solidarity, pride, history, culture. This is the part anti-fascists ignore. We see no difference between them and the BNP boneheads who go to the demos with them. There's definitely an overlap, but I'm also sure that for the standard EDL member, the BNP social misfit selling 'Stormteacup' papers are laughed at in the same way that we laugh at the SWP selling their rags at every demo we go to. (i'm not having a pop at the UAF or individuals, just what i say).

EDL members want a simple world, of good and evil, them and us, but life's not like that. I'm English, but i think the war is a lie, that the army is being deliberately broken, thousands dying on both sides to cover up a political lie and save face for the ruling class. I feel like i have more in common with the Somali taxi driver trying to make ends meet than Prince Charles, or Nick Griffin, or pretty much anyone who earns more than 30 grand a year. Hundreds of thousands of muslims are english, and most will care more about Wayne Rooney staying fit for the World Cup than bringing in sharia law.

I'm 100% sure that 90% of the people that go to the EDL demos know this, but choose to ignore it. This explains what you are saying happened when the Calne squaddies turned up to the UAF meeting - one or two were playing generals and wanted to take on 'the head of the UAF', the rest were there for the rush, or even just because they'd been asked if they wanted to come along. When you ask them they'll tell you they are EDL, defenders of the faith, because otherwise what are they meant to say? You knock down their arguments, so what? You're not telling them anything they don't know deep down already.

The EDL are a working class, nationalist, street fighting organisation, with the backing of some squaddies and a (sometimes embarassing, sometimes useful) alliance with right wing groups. A large majority of their members turn up to demos because they want to feel worthwhile - proud, just, part of a noble cause. It's emotional, not ideological.

As with all street-fighting organisations, the EDL is built on reputation, and on success. The ideological 10% at the top will eventually sell out the emotional 90% by moving into racist politics, or they will get consumed by power battles and infighting. But, by then the damage will have been done - the political centre will have moved even further to the right as a reaction to it.

We need to think about our own reputation, not with the EDL, or the state, but in the places we live. The EDL has tapped into the natural support for nationalism (and racism) within every working class community, and given people a way to express it. There is at the same time (and often in the same people) a massive natural level of left-wing support in every working class community, which we also tend to ignore, because we are not very good at tapping into it ourselves.

The answer to the EDL must be to confront them, but we shouldn't just do it ourselves, and we should think it through before we do it.

Here's my thoughts on that:
If (when) the EDL choose to make a scene in Bristol, we should be ready for them. We should be unified on a local level, and leave ideology or national politics out of it. We should make our position clear - the EDL are the invaders, they have come to Bristol from all over the country, to tell us how we should treat our neighbours, and Bristol should come together to send them packing. In the spirit of that we should ask all groups to cancel any nationwide callouts, and concentrate on mobilising the local community.

People go on about the support of the EDL in Rovers and City, but there is just as much left wing support there, it's just it isn't organised. Anyone who goes regularly should get organised - post on the fans forums, make sure that fans know there is a left-wing alternative in the stands. The self-styled leader of Rovers EDL (also BNP) doesn't even live in Bristol - he lives in Weston! Twat!

Make links with groups in other communities who are up for opposing the demo. This should be done through meetings with organisations, and personal contacts (friends of friends etc.) for those up for more 'off the cuff' activities.

All of the EDL's terror comes from outside the demo, in the pubs and side streets, from small 'affinity groups'. The big demo is just a media tool, and the organisers desperately want it to be peaceful. We should act in a similar way - the main demo should be peaceful (a silent vigil?) and away from that, meet terror with terror. The most pointless thing for us to do is get in a set-piece with the police, in which we will probably get beat (unless the community response is in the tens of thousands) and end up with fines, sentences etc.

If things go right, we will win on every level - a peaceful response to give the EDL fringe enough rope to hang them all, a superior reputation established on the streets that will damage the EDL's recruitment while boosting ours, and finally the creation of a 'noble cause' to defeat the EDL's call for nationalism - this is OUR city, WE decide what we do and we don't need to be told by you or anyone else how to do it.

(A) Sab x

@ Lotty

21.03.2010 19:07

Fine - i'm trying to get a debate going on the subject - and hopefully it'll stay freindly. I'm against muslim extremists - infact I was part of a group of 'lefties' that published a press release slagging off choudry and his Islam4UK group.

But here is what i'm interested in - last year, more bomb plots were uncovered being plotted by rar-right Combat18 types than muslim extremists. Why not protest just as strongly against C18/NF and other groups that want to ruin what is good about the UK AS WELL AS muslim extremists?

Also, why not spend more time kicking off against the bankers and wanker politicians that are really fucking this country up for working class people? I'm not saying that muslim extremism isn't a problem - it is - Im just saying that I think they are a fairly small threat compared to people like politicians, bosses and bankers who fuck us all over every day.

I would really like to hear a response to this - especially if you have EDL sympathies

(A) Sab


21.03.2010 19:28

thanks. very interesting report. it confirms what i had suspected that what motivates them isn't a million miles away from emotions that took root, but didn't run amok, during the 'british jobs for british workers' some trade unionists took part in not long back.

the major difference with the edl from what you decribe, is ideologically and strategically, the canvas is pretty blank. it is all about raw emotion, fear, social and economic rejection and a people crying out for solutions, respect and some kind of post service/peace dividend.

unanswered, that can be a dangerous combination, as it does indeed leave the disgruntled wide open to being led (and misled) by demi-Hitler's, promising quick, easy, scape-goatey type solutions.

reminds me a bit of the climate that existed for a time when Vietnam war vets returned to the states and found no jobs, societal condemnation. a lot of them got involved in the anti-war movement.

however, the anti-war movement nowadays seems to have went to sleep.


Replying to "Lotty"

21.03.2010 20:55

Replying to "Lotty" (nice German sounding name!) you're right being opposed to Islam is not intrinsically racist, but the EDL calling Stoke police "Paki loving bastards" and proven members of the EDL Welsh "Division" being photographed making Nazi salutes definitely is racist.

Either way, not all EDL supporters are racist, but ALL of the EDL's supporters are being USED by racists. Not all members of Adolf Hitler's original Nazi party hated gays (especially not the gay Nazis like Ernst Rohm), and few original Nazis knew where the movement they chose to be used by was ultimately going to take them...



21.03.2010 21:34

Stating that discriminating against Islam is not racism is a misconception. Racism is not limited to discrimination based on somatic differences, but extends to ethnicity. An ethnicity simply means a group of people who identify with each other through a common heritage. According to the United Nations conventions, there is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination.

All religious texts can be intepreted in either a progressive or totalitarian way. EDL's tactics are to conflate all muslims with with the small minority who believe the more extremist doctrines. They also cherry pick oppressive sounding verses from the Qua-ran, without contextualising this against the equally oppressive verses of other Judao-Christianic religous texts. For the record the 'church' of scientology are a business rather than a religion, although they follow the same path of destruction and assimilation that all religions do.

I remember when the BNP list was leaked a statistical analysis of it's members was created; there was one correlation that could not be ignored: the higher the percentage of white people that lived in an area, the higher the level of BNP membership. What can be concluded here is that the people who have little experience of living amongst people who are different to them, are the most fearful of other cultures. The simple answer to this lotty is that you should genuinely go and spend some time living amongst the people you dislike so much, and there is a high probability that you will actually find some commonality and realise that they are not so bad as you thought after all. Of course there are bad things about Islam, but the applies to almost all other cultures. Most people from any given background will deny that their culture has faults and assume it has integral supremacy over other cultures, but this is an exercise in immaturity and egotism. People should rise above this collective inferiority complex.


Night of the Long Knives

21.03.2010 22:08

There are left wing members of the BNP and of the EDL. It's worth telling them about the Night of the Long Knives. The left within the German National Socialist Party were murdered after Hitler took power. Of course these organisations are all different but to understand the present we all need to know our history.

Talk to them. Don't tell them where you live or work.

well said

22.03.2010 09:34

A sabs article has ben the most coherant to date on the edl......from what I've seen of the EDL and subsequent UAF demos ,The UAF with all there shouting about smashing nazis have set themselves up as a rival mob for the edl to fight with, problem is the uaf are far from a street fighting mob of any description ,The hooligan scene is all about posturing and reputation these days and the chance of any actual fighting is pretty much gone due to police attentions and heavy sentences dished out.....The EDL /Uaf demos have become an easy option for the football lads missing the thrill of a match day tear up ,also a chance to get pissed and a potential tear up with students and young muslims , The UAF have created a bit of a monster with there tactics of pretend confrontation, ,The EDL seem as much about confronting there rival mob the UAF as confronting muslims , Time for a rethink as the uaf tactics sem to have helped create a monster

Concerned of gipton [ the real one]

@ gipton

22.03.2010 10:54

@ gipton - trouble is, what do we do? If we don't "confront" them in numbers when they mobilise they will go on the rampage as they did in Stoke. We can't allow this to happen. Mobilising doesn't mean a full on fight. It means having sufficient numbers from right across the community to defend our streets.

northern lass


22.03.2010 13:17

I really really don't get it- why are you limiting yourself to try to confront them on their big mobilisations? They have leaders, leaders are real people, go after them, expose them etc..


To deal with edl you have to deal with uaf first

22.03.2010 13:28

This is how you respond to the next edl demo:
You get a crew of about fifty, minimum. You put a statement out beforehand that you are militant anti-facsists, you are not intereted in the edl, they can have they demo, go about their business, you're looking for fascists.
You say: Anybody we identity as fascists they will be confronted (regardless of whether they are with the edl or not).
You say: any racist attacks will be dealt with.
You say: we take the edl at their word that they are not a violent facsist/racist organisation and won't be confronted on that score.
You say: we will act in self-defence if attacked.

You hit identifiable facsists, and you hit them hard. You leave the edl demo alone.

The 'we' in this scenario are militant anti-facists NOT the uaf, student wankers. lefty politicos or keyboard warriors.

This should have happened at Birmingham, at the very first edl outing, when there was less than 50 on the demo and they were bending over backwards for recognition/approval/acceptance that they were not a racist organisation.



22.03.2010 14:36

Where do we get this "crew" from? In Bolton there were a group like you suggest (though about 5 of them). They successfully ejected a number of fash spotters from around the Square. But unless your "crew" are mobilised (by who?), isn't it better to rely on strength of numbers from the community? I'm not a student (not that there's owt wrong with students), and I'm not UAF - but neither am I able to assemble a "crew" of 50 hard as fuck people who can do what you propose.

northern lass

get real

22.03.2010 14:42

if you target the leaders do you not think they will do the same and lets be realistic do you want loads of football thugs knocking on youre door get real you target there leaders and make this personal they will come back harder and nastier the difference between these and the nf and such like is loads of these are prepared to get on the streets in numbers were not outnumbering these guys 50 to 1 like we used to with the nf if we want to defeat them we wont do it on the streets thers more of them there more experianced and they like to fight some of these lads will be trying to attack one another this sat and be having a laugh about it with eachother a week later at dudley ten of them walked into a meeting of 35 uaf in bristol on wednesday vastly outnumbered and the reports say it was uaf that felt intimidated sick of keyboard warriors saying what should be done and before you ask yeah i have been to all the demos except leeds and i can tell you i was glad the police were there believe me they werent protecting the edl

@northern lass


22.03.2010 16:49

i dislike the thought of fash on the streets as much as you do but youre plan should have been done after the first demos like you said if you contact the edl now and tell them you have 50 blokes ready for a row all they will do is offer to meet you away from the demo they see afa as anti british soldier hating scum bags and they would love nothing more than to meet you away from the police and have a row .

50 afa

reply to "get real"

22.03.2010 16:53

I didn't say anything about targetting their leadership. Someone had proposed leaving the EDL alone, and assembling a "crew" to hit known fascists, and to hit them hard. I was disputing this can (or will) be done. In the meantime we have a bunch of far right street fighters making plans to go on the rampage in Bradford. What are we (you and me) going to do? I'm not convinced we give the EDL a free hand - that's a mistake in my mind. But we do need strength in numbers, and the detremination that was seen at Bolton. The cops weren't protecting the EDL?? Fucking hell from where I was they were laying into peaceful protesters, to allow the EDL into Victoria Square.

The turning point seemed to be when numbers of "antis" were swelled by the arrival of a group of locals who had managed to break through a police cordon outside MacDs. Maybe the cops had always planned to cut the EDL "rally" short. I don't know. What I am aware of is that because of our numbers, and determination a repeat of Stoke was prevented.

northern lass

there was

22.03.2010 17:37

there was about 20 afa types in bolton, mixed in with non -uaf stewards
we got targeted immediately by police, and middle class liberals accusing us of being EDL infiltrators
a few got nicked
we are working on establishing a new northern network
however the mass mobilisations need to be handled better, an alternative to UAF is needed asap

afa mcr

@ afa mcr

22.03.2010 19:37

Yes indeed. We noticed that presence. Between the square and McDs down Oxford Street there was a solid group of 4 or 5 obviously experienced anti fash operating very successfully. Like the group i was with they managed to stay mobile, and organised. I must admit we thought they were fash at first, and kept our eye on them. They were very successful, however, at removing fash spotters, in no uncertain terms, giving them no option to get out and fuck off. Unlike some afa / antifa supporters they obviously felt the need to be present on the mass mobilisation, but were far more organised than any of the UAF stewards. I guess the problem is getting the numbers together and agreeing an effective strategy whilst ignoring the tendency of some of the anarcho-left to be aloof, sectarian, and do nothing at all.

Is there a way we can talk? Bookfair etc?

lancs calling.

21st century witch hunts

23.03.2010 13:21

Going around accusing people of being fascists who in reality are nothing of the sort or at least share very little with fascism like waving a Union Flag and chanting patriotic songs, is a kind of 21st century witchunt. Being a partiot does not make you a fascist. Being against radical Islam does not make you a fascist. When are you people going to stop your witch hunts?


original bristol indymedia thread

23.03.2010 15:24

the original bristol indymedia thread is here:

which continues to attract more comments also.


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