Solidarity with Chris Bambery! Down with SWP Stalinism!
prince of darkness | 14.04.2011 14:32 | Analysis | Other Press | Workers' Movements
Solidarity with Chris Bambery! Down with SWP Stalinism!
Chris Bambery, an original member of the SWP who worked with Tony Cliff has left/been pushed out of the SWP. It is not being stated openly, but the left must know that there has been a bureaucratic coup in the SWP led by Alex Callinicos, who has purged the SWP of all of its original members. Comrade Callinicos has done what Stalin did with the Bolshevik party, and the surviving SWP must be considered SWP only in name. The real SWP is now regrouping around under the name 'Counterfire' All SWP cadre and sympathisers must recognise Stalinism for what it is and unite with Chris Bambery, John Rees, Lindsay German and the rest of the original leadership. Solidarity with the original leadership! Down with Callinicos Stalinism!
Chris Bambery, an original member of the SWP who worked with Tony Cliff has left/been pushed out of the SWP. It is not being stated openly, but the left must know that there has been a bureaucratic coup in the SWP led by Alex Callinicos, who has purged the SWP of all of its original members. Comrade Callinicos has done what Stalin did with the Bolshevik party, and the surviving SWP must be considered SWP only in name. The real SWP is now regrouping around under the name 'Counterfire' All SWP cadre and sympathisers must recognise Stalinism for what it is and unite with Chris Bambery, John Rees, Lindsay German and the rest of the original leadership. Solidarity with the original leadership! Down with Callinicos Stalinism!
prince of darkness
Comments
Hide the following 49 comments
Sword
14.04.2011 14:50
Icepick
lolz
14.04.2011 15:26
@
LOL
14.04.2011 15:32
very amused
The original leadership?
14.04.2011 15:56
What is "the original leadership"? Do you mean Tony Cliff, Mike Kidron, Duncan Hallas, Paul Foot and Chris Harman? Have Counterfire learnt how to raise the dead now? "WHAT DO WE WANT? BRAINS!"
Seriously, fuck the old leadership, fuck the new leadership, and fuck any other wannabe politburo that may come into existence in the future.
Zombie Makhno
black not red
14.04.2011 17:35
black not red
reply to a brain dead zombie
14.04.2011 20:20
although you pretend to be an anarchist, i suspect by your knowledge of the original swp leaders that you are either an ex swp or most probably from the gossip sheet the CPGB.
but this is not about laughing out loud. We should stand united with the original swp leadership against all forms of stalinism from within the swp, which is after the all the biggest party on the revolutionary left. Without a revolutionary party, there is no revolution. all sympathisers and fellow travellers of the swp should look to Counterfire, the exiting new project initiated by John Rees and Lindsay German and the rest of the old leadership.
I am sure you would be very welcome. Just as it is important to uphold Trotsky and the original Bolshevik leadership and vision against Stalin's distortions, so it is important to uphold the original leadership of the SWP.
as for 'raising the dead'- I made no such claim, but only state that if the original leadership of Cliff et al were alive, they would support Counterfire.
prince of darkenss
The Thirty Nine Steps
14.04.2011 22:05
There are 39 books in the Old Testament.
The 39th Hexagram of the I Ching reads:
“THE IMAGE
Water on the mountain:
The image of OBSTRUCTION.
Thus the superior man turns his attention to himself
And molds his character.”
39 ‘Founding Fathers’ signed the first constitution of the United States of America.
The rosary of the Precious Blood of Christ has 39 grains. The prayer of the Our-Father is told 33 times and the Glory to the Father 7 times. The seven meditated mysteries are the following:
The circumcision
The agony
The flagellation
The crowning of thorns
The climbing to the Calvary
The crucifixion
The blow of lance
There are 39 weeks in the gestation of a human foetus.
The words ‘mischievous’ and ‘impure’ both appear 39 times in the Bible.
Bamberry is sending a clear message here - and of course, 1 + 39, or Bamberry plus his 39 acolytes adds up to 40, and we all know what that means.
Numerologist
Class War's Ian Bone on the real SWP
14.04.2011 23:11
rudi-mentry
@Clown of darkness...
15.04.2011 08:19
There's millions of groupsucles on the far-left, just like on the far-right, and you're just as prone to splits and fascistic tendencies as the far-right too. The last thing we need is more "revolutionary" groups that believe in fascistic hierarchies and split when the "leaders" aren't getting enough of whatever it is that fuels their egos.
It's never occurred to any of you that leadership should be awarded on merit and has nothing to do with proposals and votes, has it? People mark themselves out through the quality of their activism, and then others tend to follow them because they believe that those people are capable/effective/whatever!
The reason this country is in such a state is down to clowns in the SWP, (and other associated groupsucles), who have made it toxic for anyone with left-leaning ideals, (which incidentally is the majority of Indymedia's audience), to engage in politics and this has left a huge gulf that has been exploited, (mainly by New Labour), over the years. The SWP is a joke, and always has been.
The idea that the SWP has suddenly become Stalinist is probably the funniest of all your reactionary comments though, but as the old saying goes, if you lie down with dogs don't be surprised if you get up with fleas. Unfortunately the SWP won't go away after this. They'll just be a bit more diluted and there'll be a wider diversity of crap newspapers to avoid and more obnoxious groups co-opting movements to sustain their own egos.
Trot on
get a job
15.04.2011 10:25
ian bone? f-ing joke.
tools for the trade
who is the clown??
15.04.2011 12:07
Dear Trot on, yes the following has occured to us, and we do think that John Rees, Lindsay German, Chris Bambery are leaders because of merit and the quality of their activism, which is why others tend to follow them. Anarchism is really a dead end. Perhaps you should check out Hal Drapers excellent work 'the two souls of socialism' to really see the difference between so called Anarchist revolution and a real socialist revolution.
and yes, it is true that Ian Bone and the majority of Anarchists are a bit of a joke to most normal people. this is why we need a workers party, and perhaps counterfire is a genesis to that. Wouldn't that be great? Ian Bone and the wombles? gimme a break!
prince of darkness
Bambery and his one man Crew
15.04.2011 14:02
''Down with SWP Stalinism!'' What about SWP Trotskyism?
''Solidarity with Chris Bambery!'' Naa your alright mate.
Burberry Trojan Boys
burberry bullshit
15.04.2011 17:01
Yeah you do. you just dont know it yet. if you and your trojan boys joined a workers party, you could actually do something useful rather than just being a minor nuisance to the cops.( it is a bit low to accuse Bambery and the swp of being police stooges. I mean, who is behind the black masks the anarchists wear? it could be anybody for all we know- a trojan boy horse?)
prince of darkness
No clowning around
15.04.2011 17:05
Dear Trot on, yes the following has occured to us, and we do think that John Rees, Lindsay German, Chris Bambery are leaders because of merit and the quality of their activism, which is why others tend to follow them. Anarchism is really a dead end. Perhaps you should check out Hal Drapers excellent work 'the two souls of socialism' to really see the difference between so called Anarchist revolution and a real socialist revolution." - prince of darkness
Hahahahaha....and what, pray, tell have they achieved exactly? Paper boy of the year?
If the SWP ever actually achieved something, (beyond co-opting and then nullifying popular movements), then I must have blinked and missed it but I admit politics is a complicated game!
Out of interest, how many candidates are the SWP actually fielding in these elections? Will we actually get the opportunity to vote SWP or is the plan to co-opt the "revolution" and follow it up with a one party system?
Trot off
too hot to trot
15.04.2011 19:05
You talk about your revolution, well, that's fine
But what are you going to be doing come the time?
Are you going to be the big man with the tommy-gun?
Will you talk of freedom when the blood begins to run?
Well, freedom has no value if violence is the price
Don't want your revolution, I want anarchy and peace
You talk of overthrowing power with violence as your tool
You speak of liberation and when the people rule
Well ain't it people rule right now, what difference would there be?
Just another set of bigots with their rifle-sights on me
Crass-bloody revolutions- listen to it!
leon
Come on
15.04.2011 23:30
Thank Counterfire. Lead us.
''it could be anybody for all we know- a trojan boy horse?'' You can do better than this.
I was a member of the SWP some years ago. And do you know what? Joining the SWP was the best thing I ever did. Without the SWP I would of never found Anarchism.
The thing is the Trots were always telling me ''As a socialist you should think.....'' then follow it with things like ''Support Hamas'', ''not say my luv to your girlfriend'' (sexist apparently), ''sign up a 12 year old as a member'' (actually happened) .
Anyway without these loopers I would of never found Anarchism. So once you've finish playing with Socialism come down and see us. You'd be welcomed with open arms.
Burberry Trojan Boys
Counterfire's Clare Soloman
15.04.2011 23:30
You can enjoy Clare's immortal words when confronting a break away on one of last years students demos at 1.20 on the above video.
'I am in control' she tells everyone. She wasn't luckily.
The SWP and Counterfire are going nowhere despite their efforts to take a lead in the recent student protests. They have been widely ignored by all. I guess that's why they are resorting to posting on Indymedia, a place where they are guaranteed to be roundly denounced.
Karl
Homepage:
http://www.vbs.tv/en-gb/watch/vbs-news/vbs-news-teenage-riot
Burberry bull
16.04.2011 09:09
as it goes, I used to be an Anarchist, and it was from being involved in Anarchist groups that I saw the need for a revolutionary party. thank God for that! An anarchist told me that I couldn't be a part of their elite group if I dont give up meat, fish, eggs, and milk and become a vegan, and I couldn't shop in Tesco and a lot of other places. talk about authoritarian!
As for Clare Solomon, she is one of the inspiring leaders that have emerged from the student movement, and has drawn and will hopefully draw more of those students into Counterfire. Lets unite to fight the cuts!
prince of darkness
@clone of darkness
16.04.2011 11:17
You still didn't answer my question about voting SWP. Can I actually vote for "my" "workers party" at these elections or do you you lot only sell newspapers?
Trotting around
Chris Bambery = prince of darkness = lol
16.04.2011 11:22
Let's unite to fight the cuts, one newspaper at a time!
Exposer
All hail the great leaders!
16.04.2011 12:48
BTW, the original post definitely contradicts the editorial guidelines for the newswire, but I think we should leave it up anyway. The "leadership" the vanguardists want to offer us may not be very appealing, but you can't deny that they produce top-quality lulz.
Zombie Makhno
zombies from mars
16.04.2011 21:17
The post was not about the swp but about counterfire. it was against swp stalinism. I think you can vote, in some areas, for the TUSC, which the SWP supports.you should go ahead and do that, or if not, vote Labour without illusions. but you'd be better off getting involved with counterfire, which is quite radical and quite new. as for selling newspapers, the amount of times I have done a paper sale and someone has come up and said ' we just dont come across news like this', and 'oh, I didn't know that' are too often that I am sure of the value of selling a paper. But I am sure an internet activist like you can read it online.
I'm sorry for saying nasty things about Rees, German, and Bambery. These inspiring leaders have created great campaigns, which is why so many people admire them.- Zombie Makhno
Ok, then. but you are right, without the SWP there would have been no Stop the War and no Respect. These are the only meaningful things that have emerged from the Left in the last ten years, and are far more important than just smashing a window and pretending this is a challenge to the state. what has that ever achieved? also, are you a pretend Anarchist and really from the gossip sheet the Weekly Worker? I suspect so. EXPOSED!
Regarding Clare Solomon, it is great that she has seen Counterfire as the way forward, because she is the undoubted leader of the student protests, chosen by students themselves. And this is what Anarchists cannot stand, democracy.
to leon- crass are shit and can play to save their life.
to rudimentary- Ian Bone and the blockheads more like.
(by the way, I AM NOT Chris Bambery. )
prince of darkness
Counterfire are shit
16.04.2011 21:27
Hal Drapers work is old rubbish, completely off the pace as far as 21st century anarchism is concerned. Its embarrasing that you are promoting it. Class War and the Wombles piss all over the trot left:)
Mayday
last word
16.04.2011 22:29
your analysis is typical of most anarchists, ie there isn't one!
i can see that even though most of the comments on this thread have not been supportive of Chris Bambery, nonetheless, the fact that theree are so many comments only shows how obsessed by the swp most anarchists are. anyway, if you are so sure of your ideas, then why not join the swp or counterfire and argue for these ideas inside the movement? You can't because when it comes down to it, there is not much to Anarchism. Without the swp, you'd be nothing, you need the swp to rebel against. Anarchism is an infantile disorder-grow up and get invovled with Counterfire!
prince of darkness
long live stalin!
17.04.2011 00:21
fuck swp
fuck counterfire
fuck anarchists
we are all useless. what you need is Stalin! at least he got things done.
stalin
@prince of losers
17.04.2011 12:45
The ONLY reason people detest the SWP so much is because of the manner in which they co-opt popular social movements, (such as the campaign to stop the wars), and then subvert them into meaningless vehicles for the SWP to promote the SWP. You represent a "revolutionary workers party" yet you tell people to vote Labour because your "party" isn't even standing for election, and you don't see the irony in such ridiculous statements?
I feel VERY sorry for you because your such a blinkered loser, and for the record the lack of action in grassroots movements is because of SWP involvement, (such as co-opting stop the war etc), and yet you have the tenacity to propose that only the SWP and their clone outfits have any kind of value in grassroots struggle.
You suggest that anarchists are afraid of democracy, but you're the one who started this thread complaining about "Stalinism" in the SWP, (which is really democratic, isn't it?). You suggest people should join your shitty movement, without seeing that the only way grassroots struggle will develop is when we move past these ideas of "party politics", hierarchy and egotists.
I could continue all day, but frankly you're too ignorant/brainwashed for any of this to sink in...so instead I'll just say I pitty you and leave it at that!
what a knob
knobhead listen
17.04.2011 14:34
prince of darkness
Here is an extract on why anarchists fight the cuts
17.04.2011 17:28
"Why anarchists organise against the cuts: Our immediate aim is exactly the same as everyone’s: to stop this attack on our economic well-being. As we see it, what little we have as a class, we have won through struggle in previous generations. Now the state is strong enough to take it back again. So anarchists are part of the working class as it defends what it has.
But anarchists don’t argue for a benevolent state, for state-ownership of industry and services. This is where we differ from the trades union leadership and most of the Left. We think we need to go further as a class, to achieve political freedom as well as economic equality. So whilst we are defending what we have, we are also attacking the state, threatening its legitimacy and suggesting to people that we would be better off without it.
Under Thatcherism, as under repressive and uncaring regimes elsewhere and before it, the working class had to look after itself. It established voluntarily what it needed when things got really tough, out of mutual solidarity. So, in the 1980s, strike support groups were set up which made major industrial disputes sustainable. In areas of high unemployment, claimants unions emerged. Where racial minorities were marginalised in inner city ghettos, people gave their time freely to save their youth from self-destruction. In places where women experienced violence, rape crisis centres and refuges were set up. We did these things because no one did it for us.
The re-election of Labour initially brought state funding for some of these projects and their workers got qualifications and wages – not a bad thing in itself. But New Labour started eroding the autonomy of radical projects. Grants were cut but Lottery funding – the great sop – was denied to ‘political’ projects. And what remains of the professionalised voluntary sector is now being demolished by the ConDems.
So this is about us, starting again from scratch, yet again, and with nothing. That’s why anarchists don’t trust state provision: what it gives with one hand, it can take back with the other. That is why we don’t see a contradiction between defending state provision and opposing the state. We all have short-term needs and have to fight to get them met however we can. The process of fighting gives us strength and confidence but also reminds us that all we have is one another. Let’s make the most we can of that fact."
To say that anarchists we should sit back and let the capitalist state dismantle the few benefits our class has (that previous generations of workers have struggled for and won) is a pretty trite and stupid comment to make. Anarchists don't argue for the benevolent welfare state as an end in itself, but argue that we should defend what we have, and then struggle for even more. If our class takes another battering and loses this latest wave of class struggle it hardly bodes well as a way of fighting for future battles against the state/capitalism. It will result in the devastation of the communities in which we live - why would i, or any anarchist want to sit back and watch the places in which they live be fucked over by a bunch of capitalist dick heads? The rest of the text i have taken that extract from can be found here:
Try reading something the your own paper...
flower of the prols
18.04.2011 04:37
the bees and the birds
@loser in the dark
18.04.2011 09:52
What REALLY annoys me about you people is your need for authoritarianism and hierarchies, like you are unable to think for yourselves and need some "Dear Leader" to tell you what to do and how to think. Now, I accept that some people need direction and leadership but what I don't accept is when you try to impose it on everyone like it's necessary and that you muppets deem yourselves to be the ones to do it!
I believe in Total Liberation and I have faith that people acting in good faith will work together to achieve this, without the need to dominate or control one another. I am NOT an "anarchist", I have never read anarchist theories and essays, but it is the form of politics I'm most able to identify with because the rest of it wants to control me...and the Marxist/Trotskyist/Stalinist Leftists seem to want to control me even more than the plutocratic capitalists who are in charge at the moment, which is frankly disturbing and why you lot will NEVER get anywhere!
Ironically I can actually vote for the BNP in my area, (and it seems I'm one of the unfortunate few this time around), but I've never had the opportunity to vote for the SWP despite the fact that you lot claim to be a political "party". Why is that? How come a bunch of two-bit fascists with less than average IQ can put together a political party that I could vote for but the well educated upper-middle class Socialists cannot?
I'm still wondering whether you actually think for yourself or whether you trot out the party line, (no pun intended). Surely if you actually assessed the situation you would see that there is no need for a "revolutionary workers party" that postures and sells papers, whereas there is a VERY real need for any left of centre party in UK politics, and yet you're not filling that gap and I find myself wondering why? What value can the SWP and their other groupsucles possibly as "political parties" when they never stand for election?
The reality is that you lot are shit campaigners, your campaigns always end up in failure after co-opting popular movements, and yet strangely that's all you ever seem to do despite being a (so called) political party! Do you not see how ridiculous your position is or are you too trapped in the SWP propaganda of waiting for the revolution so you can try to co-opt like the clown who tried to take charge of the student demo???
It's time to start using your brain, rather than your pre-programmed mantras, and then maybe, just maybe, you'll realise that the SWP is nothing more than a career choice for over-privileged egotists who then brainwash the rest of the sheep into following the "party line" and, if they sell enough papers, maybe one day they might get the opportunity to try to climb the greasy pole!
Trot around the clock
Homepage:
http://negotiationisover.com/total-liberation-2/
sod democracy a true leader will emerge
18.04.2011 14:21
"It's never occurred to any of you that leadership should be awarded on merit and has nothing to do with proposals and votes, has it? People mark themselves out through the quality of their activism, and then others tend to follow them because they believe that those people are capable/effective/whatever!"
Now guess who wrote this:
"Fate answered the question for me inasmuch as it led me to make a detached and exhaustive inquiry into the Marxist teaching and the activities of the Jewish people in connection with it. The Jewish doctrine of Marxism repudiates the aristocratic principles of Nature and replaces the eternal privilege of vigour and strength by numerical mass and its dead weight"
tomeile
anarchist contradiction
18.04.2011 20:07
But there is a contradiction, and you have not in any way answered it. You are against the state in theory, but for it in practice. You sound confused, mate. a bit like being a vegetarian who also eats meat. Also,the gains made by the working class were made by an organised labour movement, not by a bunch of anarchists who thinking getting arrested is really a threat to the state.
prince of darkness
FAO "prince of darkness"
18.04.2011 23:00
Anyone who had spent 5 minutes familiarising themselves with the basic tenets of Marx or Lenin would know that both Marx and Lenin envisaged that socialism would entail the destruction of the state. Granted Lenin had some disastrous ideas about how the stateless condition would come about, but he acknowledged its necessity nonetheless.
So the fact that you think you can come on here and declare anarchism "a contradiction" because anarchists organise to defend proletarians from the attacks of the ruling class in the short term, but nonetheless seek to smash the state in the long term is just cringeworthy.
There are two kinds of "Marxist" who believe that the state shouldn't be smashed: Stalinists and social democrats.
I know they'll tell you more or less anything to keep your subs coming in but I'm pretty sure if you go to German or Rees and explain that you're one of the above even they'll set you straight.
Failing that (and I know this isn't encouraged in Trotskyist organisations)...
Go away and come back when you've read some Marx!
Trotbasher
contradictions abound
19.04.2011 13:29
you still haven't got rid of the basic contradiction- ie you are against the state but are trying to defend it. Perhaps you need a better ideology mate. also, if you read Bakunin and Proudhon you would know they were racist anti semites and anti democrats. so, although it is not encouraged in Anarchist groups, why dont you go and read some Bakunin and Proudhon??
prince of darkness
prince has a point
19.04.2011 13:35
malatesta
Superficial problem
19.04.2011 16:26
Well you make it sound like there is, but that "contradiction" stems mainly from that fact that you are deliberately choosing to formulate that claim at a level of abstraction that obfuscates the issues.
Anarchists opposing the cuts are defending the working class from a reorganisation of the state to a new more vicious form in the interests of capital. Although anarchists do not believe that the state is a viable vehicle for revolutionary change it is just a misunderstanding if you think anarchists think that any state is as bad as any other. If you're willing to look at the specifics its quite clear that there is nothing inconsistent about building a working class movement that challenges such changes and desiring the that the working class destroys of the instrument of exploitation.
Of course there are important tactical issues for people opposing this government from an libertarian communist perspective, but the idea that there is some sort of fundamental contradiction is just daft.
Down with Bolshevism
counterfire
19.04.2011 18:04
No i'm not. there is a contradiction, and I suggest that it is to do with the fact that you are never going to smash the state,this is really a radical pose, but you need to defend the cuts to be part of the movement. also, do you really think a bunch of vegans, crusties, white guys with dreadlocks and a skinny dog on a string, drinking cans of special brew and bottles of cider listening to awful punk rock music are really a threat to the state? the best anarchists, such as victor serge, joined the bolsheviks. so c'mon crusties, cut of your dreads, leave the cheap cider, start eating meat and join counterfire!
prince of darkness
@prince of darkness
19.04.2011 19:09
Your complete lack of comprehension of the concept of plurality exposes your SWP brainwashing and I can assure you that nobody reading your comments is suddenly going to join your organisation as a result of your posturing. Whilst you might think your cutting witty ripostes from behind your computer keyboard, all your actually doing is exposing the character flaws of those who become to involved in the SWP.
Solidarity with Cris Bambery, (grass), and his alter-ego the "prince of darkness"? Lol
loser patrol
Memory Lane
19.04.2011 21:00
Fuck him!
winner patrol
19.04.2011 21:49
who is the head of the anti cuts movement? chris bambery
who is the head of the student movement? clare solomon
therefore, it is clear that counterfire are leading the working class movement. where are the anarchists? getting boozed up on cheap cider, thats where!
prince of darkness
winners?
20.04.2011 09:49
who is the head of the anti cuts movement? chris bambery
who is the head of the student movement? clare solomon
and who gives a fuck? The best any movement can expect from a 'leader' is to not be denounced and little bit of firey rhetoric, if you expect any more of them you will be disappointed.
pinus
Hahaha
20.04.2011 11:48
Trots in charge of the student movement? Don't make me laugh! The student demos weren't "led" by anyone. They might have been publicised by a lot of people but there were no leaders there, even if your heroine tried to tell everyone "I'm in charge of this demonstration"!
The anti-cuts movement, for better or for worse, is being led by UK Uncut. They're not a trot front group are they? There's also a lot of regionalised groups acting locally, but beyond the odd info table, (aka paper stall), and attempting to hijack protests with their flashy banners, the SWP has added very little, (beyond writing and publishing rhetoric), to stop the cuts. "prince of darkness" even suggested voting Labour "without illusion"...oh yeah, that's fighting the cuts lol!
"prince of darkness" is just another delusional, brainwashed trot who thinks they're so superior to everyone else. Throwing around stereotypes about 90s crusties just goes to show what kind of delusional world the loser lives in, although lets not forget that RTS and the Road Protest movement achieved more than SWP ever have...but "prince of darkness" was probably too busy studying politics and hierarchy at some university funded by his capitalist parents, where he never engaged in any genuine campaigning because he was too busy selling papers.
For some reason the trots believe they're leading these struggles, but fortunately they are not because everything they touch quickly turns to shit, (Stop the War Coalition anyone?). Oppose oppression, oppose domination, oppose hierarchy, oppose the fascist trots!
Got the Trots
teenage anarchists
20.04.2011 12:57
prince of darkness
prince of darkness is....
20.04.2011 13:34
full of shit
theoretically challenged anarchists
20.04.2011 15:49
Yes I do, and I know counterfire are leading it. if you know whats going down you should join too. you call yourself full of shit and you are. i have looked over this thread, and it is obvious that I, the prince of darkness, have kicked the arse out of some lazy theoretically challenged anarchists. my killer point was about the contradiction between being against the cuts and at the same time being against the state. this was the knockout blow, which no Anarchist can answer. i think you anarchists know you have been beaten in debate, but you cannot admit it, so to save face, you spend your time insulting me, the Prince of Darkness. Anarchists do not even have a proper theory, it is just based on some punk lyrics, hardly the basis for a movement.
check out the counterfire facebook for some interesting meetings that will change your life:
prince of darkness
Socially challenged trots
20.04.2011 18:19
Erm, actually you never addressed the points made "Trotbasher" that even Marx saw the final solution as a dissolution of the state shows that you are not only wrong but also seriously deluded in your stagnant little bubble! To remind you of the point you conveniently ignored, before claiming victory, here is what "Trotbasher" said:
"Anyone who had spent 5 minutes familiarising themselves with the basic tenets of Marx or Lenin would know that both Marx and Lenin envisaged that socialism would entail the destruction of the state. Granted Lenin had some disastrous ideas about how the stateless condition would come about, but he acknowledged its necessity nonetheless" -- Trotbasher
Now, you never answered this but instead launched into a number of tirades where you relied on numerous stereotypes which showed just how out of touch you are with the current social movement that you claim to lead! I'll leave the last words to "Trotbasher" because they summed you up perfectly, (before you even started on your classist rants about stereotypes), when they said:
"You are like an embarrassing parody of a clueless Trot, recruited by a M-L-T party but clearly without the first idea about anything that Marx or Lenin actually said" -- Trotbasher
Enough said....
Can't believe this argument is still going on...
20.04.2011 23:33
Yes. Both of these projects were massive fucking failures. What can we learn from that?
"These are the only meaningful things that have emerged from the Left in the last ten years, and are far more important than just smashing a window and pretending this is a challenge to the state."
Yep, forget the mass youth revolt, some Trots forming a brief alliance with a social democrat politician and then immediately collapsing is definitely the only significant event of the last decade. You utter clueless muppet.
"also, are you a pretend Anarchist and really from the gossip sheet the Weekly Worker? I suspect so. EXPOSED!"
Are you a paranoid loon who can't accept the idea that anarchists might actually know what they're talking about? I suspect so.
Zombie Makhno
last word
21.04.2011 21:42
prince of darkness
Hamas?
31.05.2011 08:30
Someone mentioned Hamas, and being told to support them while in the SWP. Whilst this is unfortunately an SWP line (or was), please do not mistake for Socialism. Socialists do not and should never support reactionary fundamentalist religious groups. The enemy of my enemy may not neccessarily be my friend.
Sam