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Lies on Libya

S Dubois | 28.08.2011 10:02 | Anti-militarism | Anti-racism | Birmingham | World

Are we living in an Orwellian world in regard to Libya. Below is an extract from a UN human rights report on Libya that was published on January 2011. If Gaddafi was a brutal dictator, you'd have though they would have noticed it.

We are living in an Orwellian world where up is down. There is no evidence that Gaddafi’s rule was characterized by oppression and threat against most Libyans. Yet people on the Left and Right support NATO because they claim Gaddafi is a dictator. Indeed, the impression they want us to have is that Gaddafi was markedly worse than others in the region and elsewhere as dictators go.

We also have on the BBC and the media people who we are supposed to regard as Libya hysterically hailing the end of Gaddafi because he was a brutal dictator, he took away people’s freedom, he didn’t allow people to speak. They also give the impression that he made people’s lives hell.

Are they simply liars?

The answer is yes.

Because if any of that were true, would you not have expected the UN to have noticed when they made examinations of Libya?

The UN put Libya number 54 on its Human Development Index and its human rights council reported on Libya in January 2011. Right before the protests began. If Gaddafi was such a tyrant, you would expect the UN to have noticed. In terms of the Index, Libya was in the High Human Development category. What other countries ruled by brutal dictators are in that category?

 http://bit.ly/q0yblx
The Human Development Index (HDI) is a comparative measure of life expectancy, literacy, education and standards of living for countries worldwide. It is a standard means of measuring well-being, especially child welfare. It is used to distinguish whether the country is a developed, a developing or an under-developed country, and also to measure the impact of economic policies on quality of life. The index was developed in 1990 by Pakistani economist Mahbub ul Haq[2] and Indian economist Amartya Sen.[3]


 http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/16session/A-HRC-16-15.pdf
 http://bit.ly/ppokQX
United Nations A/HRC/16/15
General Assembly Distr.: General
4 January 2011
Original: English

Report of the Working Group on the Universal Periodic Review*
Libyan Arab Jamahiriya
1. The Working Group on the Universal Periodic Review, established in accordance with Human Rights Council resolution 5/1, held its ninth session from 1 to 12 November 2010. The review of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya was held at the 13 meeting, on 9 November 2010. The delegation of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya was headed by the Vice-Minister for European Affairs at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Abdulati I. Alobidi. At its 17th meeting, held on 12 November 2010, the Working Group adopted the report on the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya.

2. On 21 June 2010, the Human Rights Council selected the following group of rapporteurs (troika) to facilitate the review of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya: Argentina, Norway and Senegal.

5. During the interactive dialogue, statements were made by 46 delegations. A number of delegations commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for the preparation and presentation of its national report, noting the broad consultation process with stakeholders in the preparation phase. SEVERAL DELEGATIONS ALSO NOTED WITH APPRECIATION THE COUNTRY’S COMMITMENT TO UPHOLDING HUMAN RIGHTS ON THE GROUND. Additional statements, which could not be delivered during the interactive dialogue owing to time constraints, will be posted on the extranet of the universal periodic review when available. Recommendations made during the dialogue are found in section II of the present report.

10. The delegation noted that all rights and freedoms were contained in a coherent, consolidated legal framework. The legal guarantees formed the basis for protection of the basic rights of the people. Further, abuses that might occur were dealt with by the judiciary, and the perpetrators were brought before justice. The judiciary safeguarded the rights of individuals and was assisted by other entities, most importantly the Office of the Public Prosecutor. A National Human Rights Commission, with a mandate based on the Paris Principles, had also been established, in 2007. The aforementioned entities were complemented by newly established mechanisms, such as civil society organizations established under Law No. 19 of 2001

11. Protection of human rights was guaranteed in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya; this included not only political rights, but also economic, social and cultural rights. The Libyan Arab Jamahiriya referred to its pioneering experience in the field of wealth distribution and labour rights.

12. The delegation indicated that women were highly regarded in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, and their rights were guaranteed by all laws and legislation. Discriminatory laws had been revoked. Libyan women occupied prominent positions in the public sector, the judicial system, the public prosecutor’s office, the police and the military. Libyan legislation also guaranteed children their rights, and provided for special care for children with special needs, the elderly and persons with disabilities.

21. With regard to the extent of consultation with civil society in the preparation of the national report, as indicated earlier, the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya noted that a Committee had been established to include all human rights authorities in addressing this matter.

S Dubois
- e-mail: sdubois2011@live.com
- Homepage: http://www.911forum.org.uk/

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Birds of a feather

28.08.2011 10:19

The Syrian Arab Republic praised the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for its serious commitment to and interaction with the Human Rights Council and its mechanisms.

[North Korea] praised the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for its achievements in the protection of human rights, especially in the field of economic and social rights, including income augmentation, social care, a free education system, increased delivery of health care services, care for people with disabilities, and efforts to empower women.

Bahrain noted that the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya had adopted various policies aimed at improving human rights, in particular the right to education and the rights of persons with disabilities.

Iraq commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for being a party to most international and regional human rights instruments, which took precedence over its national legislation.

Saudi Arabia commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya’s achievements in its constitutional, legislative and institutional frameworks, which showed the importance that the country attached to human rights.

Tunisia noted progress made by the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, such as the adoption of the Great Green Charter, which was very comprehensive and enshrined fundamental freedoms and rights as enshrined in international human rights instruments.

The Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela acknowledged the efforts of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya to promote economic, social and cultural rights, especially those of children.

Cuba commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for the progress made in the achievement of one of the millennium development goals, namely, universal primary education.

Egypt commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for progress in building a comprehensive national human rights framework of institutions and in drafting legislation and supporting its human resources in that area.

The Islamic Republic of Iran noted that the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya had implemented a number of international human rights instruments and had cooperated with relevant treaty bodies.

Myanmar commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for its economic and social progress, and recognized efforts in domestic legislation aimed at guaranteeing equal rights.

fash


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Evidence of brutal dictatorship

28.08.2011 10:30

Fash,

So, no delegate noticed that Gaddafi was a brutal, psychopathic dictator, then?

Are you stating that because those delegates made those comments they are therefore untrue? And that the opposite is the case?

Where is your evidence that Gaddafi ruled a brutal dictatorship?

Why did the UN categorise Libya as a country with a High Human Development level?

You peddle in lies.

S Dubois


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Brilliant summary of UNHCR doublespeak, "fash"

28.08.2011 11:15

Libya: Gaddafi Forces Suspected Of Executing Detainees
Evidence of War Crimes Before Tripoli Fell
August 28, 2011

Torture was rife in Gaddafi’s prisons but to execute detainees days before they would have been freed is a sickening low in the government’s behavior. The evidence we have been able to gather so far strongly suggests that Gaddafi government forces went on a spate of arbitrary killing as Tripoli was falling.
Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East and North Africa director

(Tripoli) – Evidence indicates that forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi killed at least 17 detainees in a makeshift prison as rebel forces began advancing on the neighborhood of Gargur in Tripoli around August 21, 2011, Human Rights Watch said today. According to one witness who survived the killing, Libyan security forces shot the detainees at the Al-Amal al-Akhdar building belonging to the Libyan Internal Security service.

Human Rights Watch has also documented evidence of suspected arbitrary executions of dozens of other civilians, including medical professionals, by Gaddafi loyalists over the past week.

“Torture was rife in Gaddafi’s prisons but to execute detainees days before they would have been freed is a sickening low in the government’s behavior,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East and North Africa director at Human Rights Watch said. “The evidence we have been able to gather so far strongly suggests that Gaddafi government forces went on a spate of arbitrary killing as Tripoli was falling.”

Separately, on August 26, Human Rights Watch found 18 bodies rotting in small groups near the Internal Security building in a dry riverbed between Gargur and Bab al-Aziziya, Gaddafi’s former compound. Witnesses told Human Rights Watch that Gaddafi forces had killed them at different times in the week prior to August 25, when Libyan rebels seized control of the area. It is unclear if any of those killed were armed at the time of their death, but Human Rights Watch observed two among the 18 bodies had their hands tied behind their backs and two were wearing the green scrubs of Libyan doctors and nurses. Witnesses told Human Rights Watch that several others were unarmed.

Human Rights Watch also documented 29 other bodies found in and around a makeshift field clinic outside Bab al-Aziziya where there were signs that Gaddafi loyalists had been present. Four bodies were found lying on beds in the clinic itself, and several more were lying on cushions in and around what looked like military tents. Volunteers took the bodies into trucks. Human Rights Watch inspected one corpse with a gunshot wound to the head, and one body with his hands tied behind his back. Khalid Kofran, 35, who volunteered on the team that was removing the bodies, said he had seen at least three or four corpses with their hands and legs tied. Human Rights Watch has not collected sufficient information to date to indicate who may be responsible for the deaths, and there is no forensic analysis yet.

“Just Finish Them Off”
Human Rights Watch interviewed three people with direct knowledge of the execution of detainees, including one survivor. Seventeen of the bodies were taken to the Matiga Hospital in Tripoli on August 24, according to medical professionals who inspected them.

On August 25, Human Rights Watch also examined two corpses that were still in place at the Al-Amal al-Akhdar Internal Security building in Gargur where the suspected execution of detainees took place.


Osama Hadi Mansur Al-Swayi was one of the survivors of the massacre at the Internal Security building. He was one of approximately 25 people who were held there. He told Human Rights Watch:

The Khamis Brigade took me on August 19. One of the guards in the house [where they took me] told me that if I am innocent, Khamis could solve my problems. It happened at 2 p.m. on Monday [August 21]. We started hearing the rebels yelling Allahu Akbar. We were so happy, and we knew we would be released soon… Snipers were upstairs; then they came downstairs and started shooting. An old man [and another person] were shot outside our door. [The rest of us] ran out because they opened the door and said, “Quickly, quickly, go out.” They told us to lie down on the ground. When I opened my eyes, I saw three dark men. One soldier gave the order, “Just finish them off,” but I don’t know who it was. There were four of them who fired at us: one was an old man with a grey beard, and three were dark-skinned, maybe from the south. I was near the corner and got hit in the right hand, the right foot and the right shoulder. In one instant, they finished off all the people with me. What I saw I haven’t ever seen even in a movie. No one was breathing. Some of them had head wounds.

On August 26, Human Rights Watch also found two additional bodies in the closet under the stairs in the Al-Amal al-Akhdar Internal Security building where Al-Swayi said he had been detained for two days. Al-Swayi told Human Rights Watch that two men had also been killed on the ground floor where he was held just before the massacre, not in the courtyard. It could not be confirmed that these corpses were of the same men. There were dozens of spent cartridges and bloodstains on the ground in the outdoor courtyard where he said the majority of the detainees had been killed.

A medical professional who inspected the 17 bodies that were transferred from the Internal Security building to Matiga Hospital said that about half of the entrance wounds were to the back of the head, and the rest were to the chest and face. He also noted recent abrasions and lacerations on the ankles and wrists suggesting that they had been cuffed. The hospital administrator introduced Al-Swayi to Human Rights Watch as a survivor from the same massacre from which they received the 17 corpses.

Under international humanitarian law, violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds of civilians and persons not engaged in combat such as detainees is always strictly prohibited and constitutes a war crime. This is irrespective of whether the conflict is an international or non-international conflict.

“If he is a civilian, still kill him”
In addition, near the Internal Security building, Human Rights Watch inspected 18 bodies in situ rotting in a dry riverbed between Gargur and Bab al-Aziziya and interviewed five eyewitnesses.

In a suspected extra judicial execution by Gaddafi forces, Salah Saeed Kikli, 52, a medical laboratory engineer, told Human Rights Watch that he saw Gaddafi fighters in green military uniform kill two unarmed men, including one in medical scrubs, at a checkpoint by his home on August 24 around 11 a.m. after the fighters had previously approached him and threatened to kill him.

I was fixing my car. An African came to my corner [of the street] and asked if I was civilian or military. I said I live here. There was another [black man] behind who said, “if he is civilian, still kill him. No problem…” Five or ten minutes later… I saw them taking a doctor and another guy from an ambulance, and I saw them shoot [the two men]. The military guys stole the petrol from the ambulance… The ambulance said “February 17 Misrata” on it. [February 17 is a sign of support for the rebels.]…The men did not resist at all. They were medical people.

Another witness to the same incident, Juma’ Al-Murayd, 31, told Human Rights Watch that two people with dark skin and in civilian clothes were driving the ambulance when they dumped three bodies next to his house on the dry riverbed between Bab al-Aziziya and Gargur. Human Rights Watch inspected the three bodies with Kikli, across from Al-Murayd’s house, two of whom were wearing the green medical scrubs that doctors and nurses wear in Libya. Kikli said that the third body, dressed in civilian clothes, was that of the driver.

Al-Murayd also said that separately he had witnessed other Gaddafi fighters kill three more civilians on August 23 at a checkpoint across the riverbed from his home, after having beaten them with the butt of a Kalashnikov. “One of them was just driving his car, unarmed,” he told Human Rights Watch. Human Rights Watch inspected five bodies dumped in the riverbed near the spot Al-Murayd identified as the location of the checkpoint where the three men were executed. Human Rights Watch does not have evidence to date of how the other two were killed. All five bodies were dressed in civilian clothes.

In another incident in the same area, Siraj Salah Kikli, 18, told Human Rights Watch that he witnessed a policeman from Dam el-Merkezi kill two people and then spoke to a third who survived the shooting. He said that the policeman, whom he knew, was wearing civilian clothes and a military flak jacket. He and another man had forced the three victims to get out of their vehicle. “They didn’t beat them,” Siraj Kikli recalled, “they just shot them straight away.” The bodies were removed from the site on August 25.

Adel Muhammad Abdulgader, 36, also said he witnessed Gaddafi forces kill two men in a vehicle stopped at a checkpoint, ostensibly because one of the men was wearing a rebel hat, which the forces took and burned. He said that the incident took place on August 22 or 23 at 7 a.m.

“These incidents, which may represent only a fraction of the total, raise grave questions about the conduct of Gaddafi forces in the past few days, and whether it was systematic or planned,” said Whitson. “If these incidents are proven to be extra judicial killings they are serious war crimes and those responsible should be brought to justice.”

Human Rights Watch
- Homepage: http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/08/28/libya-gaddafi-forces-suspected-executing-detainees


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Evidence 'gatherers'.

28.08.2011 12:29

"Torture was rife in Gaddafi’s prisons but to execute detainees days before they would have been freed is a sickening low in the government’s behavior. The evidence we have been able to gather so far strongly suggests that Gaddafi government forces went on a spate of arbitrary killing as Tripoli was falling.
Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East and North Africa director"

This is the quote from the human rights website that you have garnered your information from. The information here contains a lot of information regarding deaths occurring only in tandem with the fall of Tripoli to the rebels. So the rebels come into the city, and as they arrive, bodies start appearing in buildings, on the streets, in alleyways and on sidestreets. Its tempting to beleieve that this is evidence exposed by the rebels of Khaddafi murders but this evidence only exists after the rebels arrive! I very much doubt that Libya is a place where bodies remain on the streets for any length of tiem without being noticed. The Libyans are not barbarians.

Are we seeing evidence of murders undertaken by Khaddafi, or is it simply evidence of murders undertaken by rebels under intence pressure by their supporters around the world to show evidence of Khaddafi murders. We know that the rebels are backed by the same people that were responsible for the atrocity's in Iraq and Afghanistan. We know that in Iraq and Afghanistan, so called liberators were themselves found to be planting bombs in civilian areas in order to 'provide evidence' of terrorism by insurgents which could be married to pre-rehearsed publicity campaigns at home.

I'm not really interested in one political cause over another, I want to know who the murderers are. This kind of naive reporting appearing on Indymedia doesn't help me in any way! And if it doesn't help me, then I doubt international public opinion will be any the wiser either.

I am beginning to suspect, that Libya is nothing more than a continuance of the so-called War on Terror, but under a humanitarian disguise!!!

Knot-Eyed Jaguar.


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Fash is joking on Libya

28.08.2011 12:31

Is this some sort of joke?

I ask for evidence of Gaddafi systematically brutalizing his people over 42 years and fash gives me a recent report of an atrocity during a war caused by the West.

What fash means is: “We, the West. had to intervene in Libya because Gaddafi would commit violent crimes against people as a result of us violently and criminally intervening in Libya.”

It is even a suspect report feeding into racist lies about African mercenaries. This betrays fash’s racism. Human Rights Watch is a Western NGO.

 http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/08/28/libya-gaddafi-forces-suspected-executing-detainees
One soldier gave the order, “Just finish them off,” but I don’t know who it was. There were four of them who fired at us: one was an old man with a grey beard, and three were dark-skinned, maybe from the south. I was near the corner and got hit in the right hand, the right foot and the right shoulder. In one instant, they finished off all the people with me. What I saw I haven’t ever seen even in a movie. No one was breathing. Some of them had head wounds.

But what does another Western dominated institution state:

Human rights investigations
evidence-based, independent and rigorous investigation of human rights abuses
Finally… The UNHCR breaks the silence on murders of blacks in Tripoli
Posted on August 27, 2011 by HRI Mark 5

The UNHCR has finally blown the veil off the racist atrocities being committed by Libyan rebels…

… Update 27 August
Kim Sengupta reporting from Tripoli writes:
“Come and see. These are blacks, Africans, hired by Gaddafi, mercenaries,” shouted Ahmed Bin Sabri, lifting the tent flap to show the body of one dead patient, his grey T-shirt stained dark red with blood, the saline pipe running into his arm black with flies. Why had an injured man receiving treatment been executed? Mr Sabri, more a camp follower than a fighter, shrugged. It was seemingly incomprehensible to him that anything wrong had been done.

 http://humanrightsinvestigations.org/2011/08/27/finally-the-unhcr-breaks-the-silence-on-murders-of-blacks-in-tripoli/

Stop lying fash.

Reports says Gaddafi orders police not to suppress protests,  http://tinyurl.com/6,  http://f24.my/qTnvYV

Research shows no evidence of Gaddafi targeting civilians  http://bit.ly/fGTPo6  http://t.co/zjXqtF6

No sign Gaddafi bombed Tripoli - NATO wages war on false claims  http://bit.ly/fZXTrL

ex CIA man says many Libyan rebels are Al Qaida-type Jihadists,  http://tinyurl.com/3gcs6v2 also,  http://tinyurl.com/3d2d8k7

Rebels execute/kidnap black immigrants,  http://tinyurl.com/4kjmy7b also  http://tinyurl.com/3me58nn

Analysis of Libya propaganda,  http://tinyurl.com/3pjqpdj

SDubois


Political Dictatorships vs. Financial Dictatorships.

28.08.2011 15:05

I just pointed out in a comment over at the New Statesman that western democracies are financial dictatorships whereas nations like Libya might be political a dictatorship but is far more financially democratic than most western democracies, free education, free universal healthcare, free housing when needed and welfare payments to ensure everyone eats a healthy diet. The distribution of water in Libyan and the water projects there rival all western nations.

It's to bad the left can't seem to emerge in the west but now that austerity and war, the lethal combination are back as the staples of the ruling class the left might drop their petty squabbles and do some serious fighting back and I do mean fighting back.

Lloyd Hart
mail e-mail: dadapop@dadapop.com


Spectacles made of wood.

28.08.2011 15:55

"I just pointed out in a comment over at the New Statesman that western democracies are financial dictatorships whereas nations like Libya might be political a dictatorship but is far more financially democratic than most western democracies, free education, free universal healthcare, free housing when needed and welfare payments to ensure everyone eats a healthy diet. The distribution of water in Libyan and the water projects there rival all western nations.

It's to bad the left can't seem to emerge in the west but now that austerity and war, the lethal combination are back as the staples of the ruling class the left might drop their petty squabbles and do some serious fighting back and I do mean fighting back."

I think that eveybody is trying at the moment to peer through the swamp of human rights abuses that appear to be ongoing in Libya at the moment and then trying to get a grip on what, exactly, the view of the Libyan people is in this. Its the same with every conflict that we see. The views of the ordinary people are simly ignored by everybody. This is a very important thing that is missed I think.

I think your take on the difference between 'types' of dictatorship' is important, feel much the same way myself. Here are the inevitable facts and figures.

Libya.

Annual growth: 0.6%
Children per women: 6.4

One physician for every 962 inhabitants.
Under 5 mortality rate: 95 per 1000.
Calorie consumption: 114% of required intake
Safe water distribution: 97% of the population has access.

1 Primary school teacher for every 12 students.

These figures clearly indicate that the 'offence' taken by the UK, France and the US to Khaddafi is hardly based on concern for the Libyan people! So there is obviously some other 'problem' which characterises the west's approach to Libya. I think its becoming clear that the rebels themselves are not protesters or freedom fighters, but may well be nationalists, bought and paid for by NATO member states that have some 'tactical' reason to install them in Libya.

I know that the military commander in Tripoli right now is Abdelhakim Belhadj, beleived to be a former Al Qaida frontman in Afghanistan. According to reports currently circulating in MSM, he was captured in Malaysia or Thailand in either 2003 or 2004 and transferred back to Libya and placed into custody. In 2009, after making some sort of deal, he was released. He is now the military commander of rebel forces in Tripoli. Obviously NATO commanders are aware of this as it seems too incredible to beleive that they have been bombing an arabic country on behalf of Al Qaida!!! (although nothing should come as a surpise in the moronic circus of stupidity that is the War on Terror!).

So only one conclusion can be drawn from this. The US, British and French governments through NATO have just given Libya to Al Qaida!

We should all be preparing for a new wave of terrorist atrocities to emerge in the EU in due course, brought about of course by NATO member countries.

David Clegg-Obama.


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M Dubois -

28.08.2011 16:06

First, please check the name under a post before commenting on it.

Yes, I can quite well believe that Libyans had free housing, education and all the rest of it. Two points. Libya is an oil state and can certainly afford it. Second - bread and circuses. If you want to keep the people on your side, throw them a biscuit from time to time.

I've no idea what atrocities were committed in Libya in the last few months, and no one else here has much clue either. Reports in the media consist of claim and counter claim, and there's no way for us to disentangle them.

As to Gadaffi? Well, he spent most of time as unopposed ruler of Libya supporting terrorists in one form or another, such as supplying semtex to anyone who wanted. In his latter days, he repented,and cosied up to the West, who rather hypocritically went along with it. (Hello? LSE anyone?) I think when the rebellion came, it was payback time.

Any idea that Gadaffi was this wonderful man who protected and nurtured his people is bollocks. Men of that ilk don't behave that way. To rule for forty years means being exceedingly ruthless with any potential rivals. That's why it all goes tits up when they die, because anyone with any ability has long been exiled to a gulag somewhere. That's what will happen in Cuba when the Castros go and in Venezuala when Chavez goes. But I have as much sympathy for Gadaffi as for Bashir, or the Kims, or Honecker, or any of their kind.

fash


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Business as usual.

28.08.2011 16:50

"As to Gadaffi? Well, he spent most of time as unopposed ruler of Libya supporting terrorists in one form or another, such as supplying semtex to anyone who wanted. In his latter days, he repented,and cosied up to the West, who rather hypocritically went along with it. (Hello? LSE anyone?) I think when the rebellion came, it was payback time.

Any idea that Gadaffi was this wonderful man who protected and nurtured his people is bollocks. Men of that ilk don't behave that way. To rule for forty years means being exceedingly ruthless with any potential rivals. That's why it all goes tits up when they die, because anyone with any ability has long been exiled to a gulag somewhere. That's what will happen in Cuba when the Castros go and in Venezuala when Chavez goes. But I have as much sympathy for Gadaffi as for Bashir, or the Kims, or Honecker, or any of their kind."

A gross over-simplification of current and near history.

You missed out the highly expensive to America international campaign by the Reagan administration to equate Khaddafi and terrorism together. This is a campaign that has been funded/ongoing for the past three decades after two Germans, A Libyan diplomat and a Palestinian were involved in the bombing of a nightclub in Berlin. This campaign has been in motion for thirty years and shows that once a narrative starts, it goes on and on and on. Even though those people were convicted, the campaign continues on. To be realistic about it, almost nothing attached to that campaign is in actual fact true beyond the event that brought it into being. Those engaged with waging these campaigns are often paid to do so and this 'patronage' is passed down through the generations in terms of funding of political and ideological 'hamstringers'.

The roll call of nations and governments you mention are all nations that have threatened American 'hegemony' in some way or another and have simply been subject to the own 'criminalisation' campaigns funded and carried on by various US governments over the years. In truth, very little of what comes out of these campaigns is ever true. Its just a collection of political ideolog's marching through the US 'proscription system' each repeating the others mistakes and then passing them on to media and US hegemonic supporters to enlarge and disseminate these campaigns. As the so-called War on Terror shows, its a growth industry that has a very large number of financial dependents these days. In a lot of ways, its an industry in and of itself.

Of course thats not to say that terrorism doesn't exist. Its just that up against the scale of these political campaigns to proscribe America's enemies, real 'actual' terrorism is tiny by comparison.

Its the strategy and tactical nature of empire old boy!

Bonny Mcloud.


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Get Out of Jail Free Card

28.08.2011 18:52

I do like the way that any criticism of the most odious regimes on the planet are met by parrotlike squawks of 'America!' 'Terrorist!' 'Empire!'.

Shooting a policewoman from the refuge of an Embassy and claiming diplomatic immunity for the killer - yep, that's Gadaffi.

fash


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I hope you're getting paid to shat chit.

28.08.2011 20:27

That's because some of the worlds most odious regimes are supported by the likes of America, a nation (amongst many, including your beloved UK plc), which also makes use of force or the threat of force to affect political or economic change, and which also incidentally, has hundreds of military bases worldwide, you know, like colonial powers of old used to have.

And in the greater scheme of things, the death of one policewoman nearly 30 years ago does not justify the attack of a nation. Unless of course, you think the life of a caucasian policewomen is worth more than a load of brown mussies in a desert.

I do like the way that you change tack whenever you're on the recieving end of a valid counter arguement.

Squawk


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Can't paint a rainbow black and white

28.08.2011 20:47

"Shooting a policewoman from the refuge of an Embassy and claiming diplomatic immunity for the killer - yep, that's Gadaffi."

The US military has such an arrangement in their host nations, host being so apt a word as the US is such a parasitical nation. Said arrangements are known as SOFAs, which in effect give the "right" of any US service personel commiting a crime in a host nation, to be tried under US juridiction and NOT the local authorities. For example, 13/6/2002, an army truck from Camp Casey in south Korea ran over two 13 year old local girls, kiling them. Upon demanding the apprehension of said troops, the US refused, using the SOFA forced upon Korea during the Korean war, and in the subsequent military trial, the deaths were ruled accidental. Stars & stripes 21/7/2002, Korea times 8/11/2002, Washington post 9/01/2003.

But why let facts get in the way of a good trolling eh?

Death to the vest


Global Civilians for Peace in Libya

28.08.2011 21:18




An excellent source of daily updated news and information on the events leading up to the NATO intervention, ongoing political analysis of the situation and recent videos and articles - highly recommended
Global Civilians for Peace in Libya  http://globalciviliansforpeace.com/

sam carrington


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This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Changing tack

28.08.2011 21:21

Gadaffi is - was - a dictator and tyrant. M Dubois reckons that our friend has been maligned.

Well, the ICC in the Hague would like a word with him.

Now the trolls will tell us the ICC is a puppet court for the imperialists. Any takers?

fash


Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

More imperialist proganda for you

28.08.2011 21:26

fash


Rapidly growing blindspot in the construct of the Libya liars

28.08.2011 21:46

If there is any foreign politician Gaddafi could be compared to, then the obvious analogy is Zelaya. Yet this one is never mentioned by NATO´s useless idiots, because it goes against the idea of using the former as a bogeyman. All they come up with are some allies of Zelaya, or anyone else NATO does not like. Gaddafis exile might be even shorter than that of the latter, given the fact that the puppet government installed to replace him is destabilising NATO, and the regime in Germany already is in open panic over its covert operations in this field and trying to quelling all voices of decency in its ranks. It´s not about what Gaddafi is or has done, but it´s about what NATO is and has done, and how it can be done with.

Gehlen Ork


Somebody just woke me up!

29.08.2011 00:10

"An excellent source of daily updated news and information on the events leading up to the NATO intervention, ongoing political analysis of the situation and recent videos and articles - highly recommended"

Many thanks for that. Anything else you can post is good. Same goes for everybody else.

Sutton.


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IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

he might have been an oppressive dictator

01.09.2011 13:20

oh get a grip your conspiracy pinheads

but I liked his dress sense


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