Delete this antisemitic rubbish.

The problem we have is not the willingness for debate, it is the corruption of law that has made it a 'criminal offence' to reject the 'official' version of the holocaust and to publicly question it.

When people en masse are instructed as to what they should believe and think with the threat of criminal prosecution if they deviate from the official line, that is where the focus of any debate should truly lie.

you aint who you pretend to be

Considering the recent complaints that Indymedia user "ftp" is anti-semitic, this over-the-top Holocaust denial nonsense looks like an obvious troll to attack ftp.

ftp is not just a user of IMC he is one of the most active mods. This latest episode in his involvement with anti-Semitism is very much in keeping with his views. Another nail in the coffin of indymedia uk I am sorry to say and one of the reasons I number of us no longer maintain the site.

"I hope that here on Indymedia we can have a free, open debate and discussion as to the reality of the Holocaust and the actual numbers (if any) of jews killed.

I welcome comments from those interested in joining the debate."


Well, the holocaust is a large scale event in which Jews the world over have probably had some part in exaggerating the numbers killed which probably isn't deliberate, its just the way information is compiled and archived. Obviously, the Zionists have attempted and gone a long way to indulging in nation building in the Middle East and the holocaust is clearly of benefit in that. The Zionists have always claimed to western powers that without a homeland, they will never be safe as a people. Put that together with the academic nature of the historical figure keeping and you are bound to get an incorrect figure.

But the tragedy that is the second world war is one in which ALL figures are little more than best guesses.

The number of refugees, displaced, missing, dead, maimed are ALL little more than assumptions based on the best available evidence, that evidence being horribly incomplete.

European Jewry WAS subject to attempted Genocide in Central Europe and there is ample evidence to that effect. This is not up for debate or revision even by those who would like to beleive otherwise. The question is to what extent has the historical assessment been over or under done?

It is almost certainly the case that reporting of this event has been over-stated but so have ALL other figures involving ALL other nationalities.

Obviously we should also keep in mind that the Allied powers made little attempt to disrupt or make any rescue attempt of the Jews and the other peoples during this time, territorial gains and closing in on the Nazi's was considered at the time to be of far more importance. Given that 70,000,000 people are beleived to have died in World War II, it makes no sense to beleive that the entire weight of the Allied machinery would have been re-directed toward saving the Jews in the camps at the expense of Europe itself.

There are other Genocides that have taken place some of which have gone on right under our noses over the past ten years. They do not generally ellicit the same response as the Genocide of the European Jews in Europe circa 1930's/1940's. This leaves most commentators unqualified to take any kind of moral position in this or any other matter. The simple fact is that these wars we have been fighting will not enter the historical record as just another war, but will go down as the organised mass murder of people around the world under the guise of 'anti-terrorism'. This time we are living in, will shame us all in the end. This is our collective holocaust.

For some reason Zionists seem to beleive that gassing people in chambers is worse than shooting them in the streets, or that killing a people and keeping a tally with record keeping is particularly odious!

I don't know how they arrive at that frankly.