Non human first declaration another racist attack on animal rights
Antifascist Animal Liberator | 30.12.2013 09:30 | Animal Liberation | Anti-racism
Few things unite the animal liberation movement more than the rejection of Speciesism but recently we have discovered a Racist sympathiser page has sprung up under the banner of NON HUMAN FIRST that is causing a major stir within the animal liberation movement
The animal liberation movement is and always has been a anti racist anti Speciesist movement and rejected racists inclusion at every attempt but recently a group calling itself NON HUMAN FIRST has sprung up and makes it very clear that they will not ban racists and will welcome them with open arms on demo's.
Their page can be seen here:
https://www.facebook.com/NonHumansFirstDeclarationSupportersPage
Richard deboo explains why this racist group is wrong.
The “Putting non-humans first” ‘project’ claims that so long as one is driven by a determination to end the enslavement of non-human animals, then it does not matter what views and opinions one holds with regards to other humans (and we know that many are in positions of exploitation, legalised discrimination and on the receiving end of great violence and often fatal harm).
The suggestion that, so long as one does something to help non-human animals, it matters not at all if one is at the same time also racist, misogynist, disablist or homophobic (and so on) is a ridiculous assertion that not only strains credibility but is a venal debasement of the meaning of justice.
Justice does not sanction one prejudice when contrasted with another; justice is not satisfied with one bigotry replacing another; justice is not served when the chauvinist is regarded as a worthy ally in the fight for freedom for our non-human friends. It is a mockery of justice and confirms only that injustice will continue to dominate our society.
The propositions put forward by “Putting Non-humans first” are an incoherent mess of illogical, ill-conceived and inchoate statements that act only as a sop to the bigoted, providing them with a false sense of entitlement to ridiculous, discredited and obscene opinions whose only intention is to perpetuate discriminatory, exploitative, antagonistic and downright contemptible attitudes towards their own target group – whether based on gender, sexual orientation, race or other arbitrary characteristic that rankles with their unformed, squalid reactions to those whom they perceive as “different” and therefore unworthy of the respect, tolerance, compassion and decency that they expect to be granted to themselves.
They claim that non-humans are in a precarious state of emergency (which is true) and thus it is of no concern if anyone seeking to help those non-humans also has attitudes that “conflict with human rights ideology” (their wording). That last part is not true.
Prejudice of any kind is a sickness of the mind. The cure is social justice, expressed fully and completely, without compromise or twisting or hiding of the truth.
The promotion of animal rights is one of the most astonishingly difficult prejudices to overcome, given how deeply embedded it is in the cultural structures and legal and political systems of our world.
We all have to work extremely hard to ensure that those who currently hold the opinion that non-human animals are unworthy of the full protections of the law and the extension of love and compassion to them and the proper attention to and satisfaction of their needs must be mindful that, if we then at the same time, hold opinions contrary to the basic principle of social justice (that no-one should be discriminated against based on some randomly-chosen trait) it makes us look ridiculous, foolish, very stupid, and frankly really pathetic.
It is difficult enough to find an outlet in the traditional media that will present animal protection issues in a favourable light without us making it so much easier for those who oppose our compassionate views to hold us up to the cold light of public scrutiny and say, “Look! Look at the your animal rights zealots! Fanatics all of them – racists, homophobes, women-hating! Look and see! Aren’t they stupid?!”
Yes, it is stupid. It has no place in a tolerant, empathetic and compassionate animal protection philosophy. Animal protection is a matter of pure social justice. Non-humans are exploited against precisely because society currently tolerates and condones the commonly-held prejudice against them, based purely on their species membership.
The full article can be read here: http://www.richarddeboo.com/justice-knows-no-bounds-why-putting-non-humans-first-is-wrong
The non human first membership is a small group in numbers and mainly gets its support from the 269 life campaign.
Its admin is unknown to us but we would be seriously questioning their intentions on this.
We as animal liberationists MUST reject Speciesism at every corner we can not tolerate or accept racists or fascists within our ranks and we MUST reject racist groups such as non human first campaign and expose them as what they are. Racists.
if you are on facebook like a true antifascist animal liberationists page here: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalLiberationMemes
Their page can be seen here:
https://www.facebook.com/NonHumansFirstDeclarationSupportersPage Richard deboo explains why this racist group is wrong.
The “Putting non-humans first” ‘project’ claims that so long as one is driven by a determination to end the enslavement of non-human animals, then it does not matter what views and opinions one holds with regards to other humans (and we know that many are in positions of exploitation, legalised discrimination and on the receiving end of great violence and often fatal harm).
The suggestion that, so long as one does something to help non-human animals, it matters not at all if one is at the same time also racist, misogynist, disablist or homophobic (and so on) is a ridiculous assertion that not only strains credibility but is a venal debasement of the meaning of justice.
Justice does not sanction one prejudice when contrasted with another; justice is not satisfied with one bigotry replacing another; justice is not served when the chauvinist is regarded as a worthy ally in the fight for freedom for our non-human friends. It is a mockery of justice and confirms only that injustice will continue to dominate our society.
The propositions put forward by “Putting Non-humans first” are an incoherent mess of illogical, ill-conceived and inchoate statements that act only as a sop to the bigoted, providing them with a false sense of entitlement to ridiculous, discredited and obscene opinions whose only intention is to perpetuate discriminatory, exploitative, antagonistic and downright contemptible attitudes towards their own target group – whether based on gender, sexual orientation, race or other arbitrary characteristic that rankles with their unformed, squalid reactions to those whom they perceive as “different” and therefore unworthy of the respect, tolerance, compassion and decency that they expect to be granted to themselves.
They claim that non-humans are in a precarious state of emergency (which is true) and thus it is of no concern if anyone seeking to help those non-humans also has attitudes that “conflict with human rights ideology” (their wording). That last part is not true.
Prejudice of any kind is a sickness of the mind. The cure is social justice, expressed fully and completely, without compromise or twisting or hiding of the truth.
The promotion of animal rights is one of the most astonishingly difficult prejudices to overcome, given how deeply embedded it is in the cultural structures and legal and political systems of our world.
We all have to work extremely hard to ensure that those who currently hold the opinion that non-human animals are unworthy of the full protections of the law and the extension of love and compassion to them and the proper attention to and satisfaction of their needs must be mindful that, if we then at the same time, hold opinions contrary to the basic principle of social justice (that no-one should be discriminated against based on some randomly-chosen trait) it makes us look ridiculous, foolish, very stupid, and frankly really pathetic.
It is difficult enough to find an outlet in the traditional media that will present animal protection issues in a favourable light without us making it so much easier for those who oppose our compassionate views to hold us up to the cold light of public scrutiny and say, “Look! Look at the your animal rights zealots! Fanatics all of them – racists, homophobes, women-hating! Look and see! Aren’t they stupid?!”
Yes, it is stupid. It has no place in a tolerant, empathetic and compassionate animal protection philosophy. Animal protection is a matter of pure social justice. Non-humans are exploited against precisely because society currently tolerates and condones the commonly-held prejudice against them, based purely on their species membership.
The full article can be read here:
http://www.richarddeboo.com/justice-knows-no-bounds-why-putting-non-humans-first-is-wrong The non human first membership is a small group in numbers and mainly gets its support from the 269 life campaign.
Its admin is unknown to us but we would be seriously questioning their intentions on this.
We as animal liberationists MUST reject Speciesism at every corner we can not tolerate or accept racists or fascists within our ranks and we MUST reject racist groups such as non human first campaign and expose them as what they are. Racists.
if you are on facebook like a true antifascist animal liberationists page here:
https://www.facebook.com/AnimalLiberationMemes
Antifascist Animal Liberator
Comments
Hide the following 177 comments
Funny
30.12.2013 11:43
EagleEyez
Depends on the BASIS for their AR position
30.12.2013 14:33
YOUR basis for being for AR appears to be "justice". Yes of course, it would be very strange for somebody using a basis of "justice" to be for animal rights but not for human rights. But then you go off the deep end assuming that everybody in the AR movement is there because of "justice" and not some other basis.
If you want to argue that these fascists are inconsistent then you have to argue in terms of the bases that they are using, not upon your own.
MDN
Aran Mathia
30.12.2013 15:20
Aran Mathai
Fuck the EDL
MDN - a quick response
30.12.2013 15:39
Many thanks for taking the time to read through this important article. I did, in fact, base my critique upon the principles outlined by the Putting Non-Humans First (PNHF) group. I used the word "justice" a lot in my critique because PNHF claim to be seeking a rectiication of the current social situation faced by non-humans (their expliotation and enslavement) as there is no moral, social or political justification for it (which is true). I regard that as seeking "justice" for non-humans (ie, correcting a wrong and putting in place a new situation which is "right").
But if justice is to be served then we must be consistent in how that is expressed - as I state in my article, correcting one wrong (prejudice against non-humans) whilst at the same time condoning and supporting another wrong (prejudice against some humans (based upon a variety of arbitrarily-chosen characteristics)) does not serve justice.
Prejudice - of any kind - has no place in the animal liberation movement, which by its very definition includes all animals, whether human or non-human ...
Richard
e-mail:
richarddeboo@europe.com
Homepage:
www.richarddeboo,com
Rubbish to non human first
30.12.2013 17:54
What about you're recent escapades of having anti semites on you're demo's non human first aka ARAN
Jon Proctor
Homepage:
www.jonathonproctor.wordpress.com
Racist attends AR protest
30.12.2013 18:22
Dogs 4 us demo
He is called Daniel Carter, check out his fb page:
Or this:
Racists and fascists are NOT welcome in our movement.
Anti fa
Blackmail
30.12.2013 19:03
Antispeciesist
e-mail:
dobbiehose@gmail.com
Bollocks!
30.12.2013 19:23
Real Anti-Fash
@ "Real Anti-Fash" My arse.
30.12.2013 19:43
Tony
@Tony
30.12.2013 20:15
Real Anti-Fash
@Real Anti-Fash
30.12.2013 20:25
Tony
@Jon
30.12.2013 20:28
T
No sense
30.12.2013 20:31
Anon
@Anon
30.12.2013 20:42
I bet you're one of the people mentioned in the comments?
O.D
The same individuals involved here
30.12.2013 21:01
Fash Free AR
Animal Liberation = Human Liberation
30.12.2013 21:18
The reality of the situation is that Aran is not racist himself, he is in fact half Indian and been a victim of racism - this makes his acceptance of racists even more bizarre.
Aran was given much attention in the AR community, because he was young and a good campaigner (he also used to be anti fash). Since more people have joined the movement, he has received less attention from others. Since then he has been desperately seeking some sort of attention and thus created the Non-Humans First group. It is nothing more than a way of him getting attention, a dangerous way at that.
Daniel Carter is a well known and out-spoken Nazi and White Supremacist. He has been exposed on anti-fascist websites throwing Nazi salutes on EDL marches and behind "White Pride" flags. This person attending Animal Rights demonstrations would give the public, and others, the impression that Animal Rights activists are Nazis/Nazi sympathisers. The AR movement has always been anti-fascist - all abuse is linked, none are free until all are free.
To summarise, Aran needs to stop attention seeking. Daniel Carter and his Nazi friends need to fuck off and the movement needs to continue pushing for total liberation.
One Struggle
@O.D.
30.12.2013 21:43
Anon
Steele not included?
30.12.2013 21:50
The Truth
Infighting
30.12.2013 22:18
For Animals
Non-humans first?
30.12.2013 22:20
Anti-Spe
@Anti Spe
30.12.2013 23:00
For Animals
@ One Struggle aka Deboo
30.12.2013 23:21
Aran
@The Truth (apparently)
30.12.2013 23:39
One Struggle
@Aran
30.12.2013 23:42
You like to play the victim yet you, yourself have never been banned from any group; granted now many people wouldn't make you feel too welcome. There have been, to my knowledge, only one person that has been told that they are not welcome - you know exactly who I am refering to - for the good of the movement. They were vile.
One Struggle
@One Struggle
30.12.2013 23:58
Real Anti-Fash
@One Struggle
31.12.2013 00:15
269Life, which you were a part of, created the underpinnings for the ideas behind the Non-Humans First approach. After consultation with them I formed Non-Humans First as an alternative for those that were primarily focused on non-human animals not creating a leftist, or indeed rightist, utopia. We never try to stop others running their campaigns their way, it is just a choice for those that don't agree.
Aran
@Aran
31.12.2013 01:06
None of those people stated have ever been banned from being in public areas. People not being wlecomed to be in the vicinity of others is not banning them from doing anything. When it comes to being on other people's property (I.E At the Gathering) it is a different stroy.
I was at the recent International Gathering; that just proved that fascists have their own agenders and should not be welcomed by the movement.
One Struggle
@One Struggle
31.12.2013 01:29
A ban is a ban whether from a group, meeting, gathering or demo – it is not OK in any way shape or form, although all those on the list but Anthony have been banned from public demos.
The International Gathering was ruined by so-called anti-fash that went to the gathering and then proceeded to insult the host animal sanctuary, saying they were linked to fash and having a catering company called 'Just Like Mum' was sexist - if you dont like the host why attend?
Aran
Helpful this article is not
31.12.2013 01:45
I have my own view on nhf but this is not the time or place to air this laundry ! if we really want to get down to an agreement and discussion it should be in round a table in a room out of the view of innocent bystanders.
This is doing none of us any good and just causing friction
Jon Proctor
@For the Animals & Anti Spec
31.12.2013 09:48
In what way does this lead to big questions? Are you in this for animals, or in this for some ego boost? You're another loon I think.
Truly for Animals
@Truly For Animals
31.12.2013 09:55
For Animals
@Jon Proctor
31.12.2013 11:00
delboy
What is the point in this article?
31.12.2013 12:14
There is not one bit of evidence to imply that NHF is a racist declaration, but by all means prove me wrong and show me where...
Fame whore deboo
Sexism now hmm
31.12.2013 12:44
I am not the author of this article and have emailed the indymedia admins to ask them to take it down as i do not belive this is the best place to hold a slinging match ie for the whole world to see my style as you well know is upfront both feet forward
Now stop making liable accusations about me and leave me alone !
Jon
@Fame whore deboo (aka aran)
Stop assuming things
31.12.2013 12:49
Deboo fame whore
Clearly its you
31.12.2013 12:58
Iv said by bit now bugger off
Well DUH
State will be operating on both sides of the "Divide"
31.12.2013 13:13
Peeps should be aware that corporate/state will be operating on both sides in this divide and rule non sense.
Last I saw killing animals was worth 16 billion a year to the UK economy, when you threaten as AR does, that lucre the corporate state will seek to disrupt in anyway it can.
Peace
and Fuck the corporate state
N
You dumb f*ck
31.12.2013 13:22
George
Not me.
31.12.2013 13:24
Aran
Mature
31.12.2013 13:26
the abusers will be pissing them self with laughter by now
George ?
Admins
31.12.2013 13:27
Aran
Finally something we agree on
31.12.2013 13:30
jon
Egos.
31.12.2013 14:14
Animal rights isn't about human egos, and to suggest that is what Aran is doing is ridiculous.
Animals don't care who saves them, would you?
seitan
Animal rights is anti racist
31.12.2013 14:35
What aran mathais group is doing is allowing the racists and fascists entry into the uk animal rights movement and causing mass division within the movement.
To allow speciesism within our ranks is to divide the core of the animal rights movement.
Most animal rights groups have signed up to the animal liberation hallmarks for this exact reason.
To reject speciesism as speciesism is racism is fascism is and is animal abuse.
@seitan
@fame whore deboo and anoop
31.12.2013 15:15
Debbie
Who..
31.12.2013 15:24
If an animal is about to be killed, ! really don't care who is going to save that animal.
This isn't about egos, it is about animals lives.
Would you actually stop someone from saving an animals life, because they may be racist? that is something that will NEVER make any sense to me. I have been involved in the AR scene for many years, I', not some newbie who knows nothing.
I've also been involved in AFA actions in the past.
I HATE racists, but i also don't want animals to be dieing.
Those fascists are ALREADY within the ar movement, don't kid yourself they're not!
seitan
Your notes are screenshot
31.12.2013 15:58
P C Andrews (Midlands constabulary)
PC Andrews or whoever
31.12.2013 16:02
Amused
This is all public
31.12.2013 16:17
PC ANDREWS
Untrue.
31.12.2013 16:23
I would like to address a factual point here. This is incorrect. In fact there has always been a conflict on this issue. See Arkangel #2 page 3.
Aran
PC Andrews is right!
31.12.2013 17:04
Made your point
@ "A TRUE ANIMAL LOVER "
31.12.2013 17:40
concerned
Get Facts Right
31.12.2013 17:47
Debbie
Infighting.
31.12.2013 17:48
The attacks need to stop. We can all fight for causes without sharing identical views on other issues.
Aran
meanwhile
31.12.2013 17:54
You kiddies stick to chatting shit on facebook, it's where you started, where you'll end and where you're stuck. A digital dungeon.
Throw away the key I say.
OutFoxed
@Aran
31.12.2013 18:30
Anti
Racism is not ok with me
31.12.2013 21:14
Aran you would not be welcome in manchester as i tell you now you are a disgrace allowing a fascist on your demonstration was disgusting and outrageous and an injustice to all animal liberationists
Time we de weed the crap from the animal rights movement mathai, beevers, proctor, houses. ghale and every other racist sympathiser in the animal liberation movement needs booting.
The "oldies" as were described by mathai and proctor are the only ones speaking sense the babies are the ones causing the trouble
Fash out of the ar
Animal actvist
@Animal actvist
31.12.2013 22:58
Real Anti-Fash
Real meaning of animal liberation
01.01.2014 03:16
The animal liberation movement has fundamentally always been vegan antifascist anti racist anti speciesist.
We reject an attack on the human species just as much as we reject an attack on our animal friends.
Animal rights can only be achieved with human emancipation anything to the contrary is incorrect.
Its time we got off social media wars and got on with action (tho i doubt aran would be made welcome by any animal rights group in the uk).
Wish you luck with your endeavours aran but really not helpful what you are doing.
Anon
Homepage:
http://www.al-hallmarks.net/
NHF page
01.01.2014 09:58
Is someone buying likes for their page?
anon
No Fake Likes [proof]
01.01.2014 12:20
This is a screenshot of the top cities and places that like the NHF page, take from FB Insights.
Aran
Get real anoop
01.01.2014 19:49
can i suggest all AR'S ignore this article as its doing no one any good i'm out of here won't be posting again so do your worst anoop
Also no harm in trying again Indymedia if you got any sort of decency delete this fucking article
jon to LOLing@SmokerRights
Sensible debate required among activists old, new and everyone inbetween
02.01.2014 01:48
There are contributions that make sense and others that don't, clearly Anoop Ghale who was exposed for racially motivated bullying is on here spewing her usual disgusting language and proudly exposing her prejudices.
Did the hallmarks happen because of the likes of her? Absolutely. Are they convoluted, long winded and inaccessible? Possibly. Was Aran Anoop's arch enemy, (unless they've made up now as they have much in common) a supporter of the hallmarks? Yes, for a time until he heard 'well reasoned arguments against them' a 'well reasoned' argument which consists, of dull far reaching highly unlikely scenarios such as "what if...." "What if a Nazi was about to break into a lab, would the animals care who liberated them blah blah blah" An 'argument' which is akin to is asking the age old and equally dull unlikely scenario we've all been exposed too as vegans such as "what would you do if you were on a desert island, your only companion being a sheep, you'd eat it right?" One appropriate response to the ridiculousness of the latter fictitious scenario of course is "I'll have what the sheep is eating"
What these two ridiculous fictitious 'arguments' have in common is that neither situation is going to occur,. There's as much chance of one being stranded on a desert island as there is some nazi planning and executing a raid. The UK's most recent animal rights prisoner, George House, never even got near the animal house of that hospital, he just went for a wander around the place, then failed to avoid arrest by handing evidence to the police on a plate that he entered the hospital and also wrote on his local greyhound stadium. If his actions were a genuine attempt to help the victims of vivisection he would have had homes lined up for rescued animals, done a decent amount of professional reconnaissance to ensure the 'mission' was a success. A genuine attempt to help the dogs is to not get caught but unfortunately it appears as if the animals themselves were not his primary concern, stardom was and my gosh how he and his sister, who once spoke of her love of McDonalds and even praised their 'welfare standards' which tells us all we need to know about her, have 'milked' it ever since.
Luke Beevers. Desperate to get arrested, convicted and his ultimate aim is to be imprisoned in order to be congratulated The fact that he actually congratulated himself by drawing attention for his one year anniversary for gaining a criminal conviction tells us all we need to know about him. The idea, for people who really want to help animals, is to avoid this as far as possible rather than boast about it. Getting caught is nothing to be proud of, it's a failure and the animals for whom we work deserve better.
Aran,well he really needs attention and if this was a relay race to trash the animal rights movement, Anoop began it then swiftly handed the baton to Aran who has run with it just as effectively as she.
What individuals discussed here have in common is that it is highly likely that they are naturally disturbed, furious and motivated by the relentless meting out of never ending abuse of our kin and are indeed motivated to try to do something about it, as are most of us involved in the struggle for animal liberation. There is also hope for them to see the error of their ways if they are genuine about making a meaningful contribution to this social justice movement. Unfortunately they also share a need for the limelight which makes them ineffective as most UK animal liberationists are either not on facebook, do not use it to boast about anything and they just quietly get on with it. The movement does look dead, as Anoop states on here because she is merely referring to it's online presence. That is not reality. The movement is dysfunctional, but that is because social media allows those discussed above to boast about minor actions which in reality have not actually helped animals. Social media is abused all the time... right now in fact by the setting up of fake pages pretending to be anti racist. John Merrick, oh dear. Talk about wasting time and deflecting attention from the plight of our non human victims!
Another commonality among some of the individuals mentioned above is that they have defended and protected Stephen and Kel Leigh, racists who infiltrated an ongoing successful campaign against a greyhound stadium. What must be remembered is that we in the animal liberation movement can afford to be choosy with whom we associate and work with. As the Newchurch campaign proved, never ever doubt the power of a small number of dedicated and committed activists. A small number! None of whom require adulation, all of whom remained focused on shuttting that hell hole down and behaved professionally, no infighting or competing for limelight but a genuine commitment of a small number of activists to successfully complete that campaign. The resulting convictions from both campaigns were the tip of the iceberg considering all that occurred during the relentless five year period and indeed many other ALF actions against other targets during that time period. The same can be said of those who secured the closure of Hillgrove, suppliers of cats to the vivisection industry.
Conversely, Aran and Luke may well plan the odd demo's now and then, put people off by associating with known racists, creating/supporting for the non humans first declaration then using that ridiculous fictitious argument stated above. Most demo’s they attend have been arranged by others and Aran has horrified those involved in the Newchurch campaign by fairly recently shouting (and interrupting a previous speech) on his megaphone about digging up grannies as if the success of that campaign related to him! Laughable, and actually, those imprisoned on behalf of those Guinea Pigs find him an absolute joke as well as a liability, so the laughing soon ceases. There was much dismay at pictures of Anoop, George and his sister taking pictures of each other masked up whilst setting alight removed circus posters and ridiculing the movement in doing so. Behaviour, along with the presence of the non humans first page is viewed by many offline activists as treachery towards those they purport to defend.
The comments made about Anthony and Keith Mann on here are inappropriate. The family need support as Keith is ill obviously and the cruelty of those comments are uncalled for to say the least. Nevertheless one is only as good as ones last action and Keith for all manner of reasons no doubt has been inactive for a very long time and taken a long overdue break. Sadly he has also simultaneously diverted attention away from the quest for animal liberation by falling prey to all manner of conspiracy theories which caused his popularity to wane dramatically. This has angered his brother Anthony who is naturally protective not only of his brother but also of the reputation he enjoyed by Keiths natural charisma and infamy. It's true that people are frightened of Anthony because unfortunately not only does he threaten violence to people online he has publicly conducted himself in a shamefully aggressive manner at an animal rights gathering when he realised he could no longer surf the wave of his brothers fame and was at the time also defending Anoop Ghale who began this decimation, it's surprising they are still friends considering how much she has ranted "I do not think ACAB!" and boasts how she would not hesitate to inform. Little wonder she is highly suspected to be on the payroll, along with others spoken of here. Also it certainly appears that Anthony does abuse steroids and has done for years which would account for his aggression as well as the physical indicators such as his bloated facial features. The best thing for the Mann brothers, with the greatest of respect is healing, from cancer, steroid abuse and mental health issues, non of which are a laughing matter.
Perhaps what links us all wherever we stand on the existence of the hallmaks v's non humans first is the current documentary on TV this evening regarding the capability of a meteorite wiping out the human race and handing our planet back to those who know how to look after it, something else on TV regarding earthquakes this evening brings to mind the manner in which the earth is shifting and shaking in her attempt to rid the species which plague her. But in the meantime, like it or not, we human animals are the voice of our non human sisters and brothers. Hating other humans doesn't work, discouraging people away from internationality is counter productive. It discredits and indeed sabotages our movement. Therefore the busiest, quietest and most effective activists as well as a majority of keyboard warriors denounce the non humans first declaration as a counterproductive act of treachery towards animals because they need us and they need us to simply get on with it. It's no accident that this debate has sprung up after the badger cull, as activists were busy doing just that rather than deal with the ridiculousness of the NHFD.
Responses to this contribution are predictable, an onslaught of abuse from Anoop, criticism over reserving it's contributory authors rights to their anonymity by Nazi apologists Aran and his side kick Luke, now that Jon Proctor no longer serves as Arans mouthpiece. But that's okay because fortunately, many people are still, and always will be quietly getting on with it, making significant changes to the lives many animals. Scenarios' which will not appear online in order to gain praise and adulation at the expense of security and animal freedom.
Chris & John Hall and Farmer Brown.
Multi authored
@multi authored
02.01.2014 04:52
Debbie
Yep
02.01.2014 06:08
jon
I could take a pretty good guess who you are...
02.01.2014 11:34
Why will nobody actually slag me, my family or my friends off without being anonymous?
George
Ok George
02.01.2014 13:36
Paul
...
02.01.2014 13:45
George
Money for animals or popularity
02.01.2014 14:09
anon
@George (House)
02.01.2014 14:44
Paul
Full of sh!t Paul.
02.01.2014 14:53
George
@Multi authored
02.01.2014 16:02
I will not address the personal attacks on me as they are childish. I do not boast about what I do like is claimed, the only part of what I do that I publicise is demos to get others to attend, everything else I do I keep private.
In regards to interrupting someone, this was not an official speech but rather someone talking when everyone wanted to chant, local activists were tapping me on the back asking me to cut in and start chanting – so I did.
Contrary to popular belief, I have no wish to infight, I want a solution that everyone is happy with.
Aran
@Aran
02.01.2014 16:16
Leave the movement.
Paul
@ yellow and brown
02.01.2014 16:23
Not amused
@anon
02.01.2014 16:25
Aran
@Aran
02.01.2014 16:35
Thanks for the clarification in admitting that NHF is a sponsored, advertised site on Facebook.
anon
@Paul
02.01.2014 16:42
Aran
@anon
02.01.2014 16:46
Aran
:)
02.01.2014 16:49
george
Daniel Carter
02.01.2014 18:45
I have spoken to Daniel and asked him if he would stay away from AR demos due to the people in our movement making a big issue over his attendance. I have asked him this, and he has agreed to it voluntarily, because of those in the movement using his attendance to attack campaigns. This is harming non-human animals, which is my sole concern.
Daniel is not the type of bonehead 'Nazi' that goes around attacking people, rather he is the sort of person that has read political books and formed some ideas. Daniel has expressed to me that he does not hate any race and thinks all humans and animals should be treated with kindness. I have said to him that whatever he may personally think National Socialism really is about, being National Socialist doesn't get across his actual viewpoint nor does working with the BNP, etc. I have asked Daniel to consider all this and I will keep talking to him. I would encourage other people to also talk to him.
My hope is Daniel, and all other human beings, will move away from human politics and focus on non-human animals.
Please further note that I did not invite Daniel to the D4U demo, nor was I a organiser or admin of that demo.
Aran
Well
02.01.2014 19:55
Posting bollocks in the comments here to try and annoy the mods into taking the original post down? No surprise there. Grow the fuck up.
Kindergarten Watch
Aran really ???
03.01.2014 01:36
Is it not he's just craving attention and trying to cause a fight lets not forget he was pro hallmarks and tried to get people banned mainly his ex girlfriend Louis.
George house is a well known shit stirring brat who thinks his pathetic attempt at ALF earns him any respect well George all your actions did was make the real activists aware how much of an idiot you are and how much we need to avoid you .
Proctor: what to say about him he was aran's lapdog everywhere aran wanted to fight he would send proctor in first. Proctor is an arsehole who has a long way to go before earning anyone trust again but these people can be worked with again.
Mann; Its very unfair at the moment to attack the mann's known Keith's illness so i will say nothing on the issue
Hallmarks v Non hallmarks: This is a repetitive subject it keeps coming up time and time again. Real activists just get on with fighting for animals instead of being keyboard warriors.
Racism is a form of speciesism Maybe aran mathai needs to read his own articles try this one for example:
I'm not surprised this happened after the badger cull and not during as people had no time to be brats on social media they just had to get on and do the work needed for the badgers.
Tho i state racists would not have been made welcome at either zone and we in fact turned away several racists making it clear they were not welcome.
Old Timer
It is true
03.01.2014 02:21
anon
Boring
03.01.2014 02:26
Yo yo
Interesting
03.01.2014 10:41
concerned of gipton
Concerned of Gipton - you hypocrite!!!
03.01.2014 13:24
I don't like fascists, but at least they don't tend to farm and exploit and mass murder other races of humans for their food!
You posting here is like a fascist telling the anti-fascist movement how it should conduct itself, so either go vegan, then you have a right to a view on this, or otherwise go away.
And unlike some ppl I always put my name and contact details as I am not a coward who hides!
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
"I don't like fascists, but at least"
03.01.2014 13:37
Peter
Bullies and hypocrites!
03.01.2014 13:42
He bullies anyone who is pro-life as well, I have been enough on the receiving end of his nastiness for more than 20 years, for no other reason than me being openly pro-life. I tried to not retaliate for such a long time, but now I see him attempting to bully Aran and George who are both good AR activists, and it has to be said that bullies come in all types and even anti-fascists can be bullies!
And so much for the anti-fascists caring so much about equality and human rights, they do not even care about the pre-born, who like the animals can't defend themselves. They are worse than not caring, many of them are actively hateful to those who defend the most defenceless of all humans. Hypocrites, so many of them!
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
@lesley
03.01.2014 14:06
not surprised really
@Old Timer
03.01.2014 14:35
Aran
Cops playpen
03.01.2014 15:00
Now I don't want to be seen as being bossy but LEAVE IT ALONE
Jon
Judean People's Front
03.01.2014 22:08
Reg: Fuck off!
Brian: Excuse me?
Reg: Judean People’s Front. We’re the People’s Front of Judea! Judean People’s Front. Cawk.
Francis: Wankers.
Reg: No, piss off.
Brian: I don’t want to sell this stuff, it’s only a job. I hate the Romans as much as anybody.
Judith: Are you sure?
Brian: Oh, dead sure. I hate the Romans already.
Reg: Listen. If you really wanted to join the P.F.J., you’d have to really hate the Romans.
Brian: I do!
Reg: Oh, yeah? How much?
Brian: A lot!
Reg: Right. You’re in. Listen. The only people we hate more than the Romans are the fucking Judean People’s Front.
Stan: Yeah, the Judean People’s Front.
Reg: Yeah. Splitters.
Stan: And the Popular Front of Judea.
Reg: Yeah. Splitters.
Stan: And the People’s Front of Judea.
Reg: Yea… what?
Stan: The People’s Front of Judea. Splitters.
Reg: We’re the People’s Front of Judea!
Stan: Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front.
Reg: People’s Front!
Francis: Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg?
Reg: He’s over there. [points to a lone man]
Reg, Stan, Francis, Judith: SPLITTER!
Aran
which one next week?
03.01.2014 22:47
pots and kettles
@pots and kettles
03.01.2014 23:08
Aran
FAO lesley
04.01.2014 09:57
The reason I felt qualified to comment in the first place was I've known some very good people who've been involved in your scene and was quite shocked to read some of the stuff on here , I'm interested in the debate your having amongst yourselves and am trying to understand some of the bizarre positions.
many years ago I used to have to read hate letters sent by a well known nazi kevin Whatmought who would bombard us with poison about gassing jews then tell us about about being a vegan.and how that somehow made him ok.
Am I right in thinking one of the persons on here of jewish background has a brother who became a neo nazi ? regards COG
concerned of gipton
COG
04.01.2014 14:05
Pro-life has got the idea of respect for life in common with AR, and it is the pro-human rights Hallmarks crowd I am challenging on this, challenging them to be consistent if they care so much about humans. If they are not pro-life as the most basic human rights commitment then I for one can hardly take them seriously, if they are anti-racism and anti-homophobia but not against killing the preborn child, which seems a far bigger crime than most other crimes against human life. I also would not find the presence appropriate of a convicted child killer in AR (like that would ever happen, it's one of those silly hypotheticals like the desert island scenario).
I know nothing of Kevin Whatmought, he sounds crazy and a liability, each situation should be taken as individual. I do not know anything about this brother of someone who is Neo-Nazi, if it is true or not, surely it does not reflect on the activist in question. Why is it even relevant then if an activist has a Neo-Nazi relative? So what? I have a cousin who is a dairy farmer and mass killer and abuser of animals, same difference.
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
@PGTips
04.01.2014 14:54
Its funny how personal pages become AR pages with you lot. Orwellian double speak, but what would we expect? Lesley supposidly shouldn't speak about herself on her own page, I should not speak about the demos I attend, Luke and George should never mention their ALF convictions despite it being a major life event for them and exactly the sort of thing people talk about on a personal page and the list goes on.
Aran
@Aran
04.01.2014 15:52
4NTi-N4Zi
read all the comments in the link
04.01.2014 16:03
Read all the comments
Openly admits infiltrating demos gives him a buzz
Has been to loads of AR demos ?
Hes best mate runs Redwatch and likes threatening antis remind you of anything ?
AND YOU WANT THIS PRICK ACCEPTED IN THE AR MOVEMENT ?
Anon
@Anon
04.01.2014 17:18
Aran
You did invite him
04.01.2014 17:27
I have seen you telling people what a lovely guy he is today so all these bullshit statements you are posting all over are worthless and all lies
Also McLoving the way you are posting all over facebook YOUR own links to YOUR own pages (ego much) and saying its a new start for AR lol the only people i see following your sad arse are the houses, little beggar Jake and a few racists Your going to do really well the animals thank you so much
Anon
@Anon
04.01.2014 17:39
I would suggest rather than spy on my page you do something to help animals.
Aran
I am out of UK AR!!!!
04.01.2014 18:09
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
@lesley
04.01.2014 18:15
Anon
Who is "everyone" who can't stand me anyway - no guts to say stuff to my face???
04.01.2014 18:23
Answer the question
04.01.2014 14:36
Answer the questions Lesley dove
How is the young student you assaulted ?
How is the taxi driver you spat at in the street ?
How is the coach driver after you grassed on him ?
How are your daughters coping with such a mother ?
You think its OK to attack "humans" because they smoke ?
Why don't you get of your fat frumpy arse stop complaining and put that energy into saving a animal ?
Deer cull ? everyone cares about the deer its the old deer running the campaign that everyone cant stand hand it over to someone else
Think ill need to unblock you now to have a look at the ME ME ME comments that usually fill your apparent AR page or then again maybe not
PGTips
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
@Lesley
04.01.2014 18:29
You are not the only one to have been bullied on here and you've got off quite lightly in comparison to others. I think what you meant to say is that you're leaving a group of ego's who sit on FB all day. No harm in that, but no need to leave real AR.
ANON
Some can DO, others can only criticise!
04.01.2014 18:30
02.01.2014 16:42
Happy to if you are volunteering to take on the many projects I help out with. Perhaps we can meet up and you can take on all of it and I will quit?
Aran"
Good response there Aran, maybe I should throw down the same gauntlet to PG Tips, re deer cull campaign?? I do not think that they are offering to do anything to save the deer are they??
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
@Lesley Dove
04.01.2014 19:33
About Time
@ Anon - Grow up
04.01.2014 20:43
To attack one of the few remaining persistent animal rights campaigns still going such as the deer cull because you 'don't like Lesley' is completely childish. Anti hallmarkers don't provoke you idiots, so why provoke us? You have successfully segregated the movement, now leave it. You do your non existent imaginary activism and we will do our actual real life activism that saves plenty more animals than you do. You no longer need to spout your bullshit around for people to make a choice of who they want to involve themselves with, so articles like the above are irrelevant.
Animals are currently locked away in the most brutal of places, but where are the campaigns from your side? No, they don't exist do they? Because all of your efforts.. Hah, are being put into attacking people you don't see eye to eye with. Your campaign of harassment to completely undeserving individuals who want to help animals can no longer go any further than it already has, it will only destroy the remainder of this movement more. Not that you care anyway.
A retaliation to this comment will be continuing your campaign and playing right into the hands of the state, and I will assume that the last part of the second from last paragraph is confirmation that you truly 100% do not care about the animals. I won't reply after this comment anyway.
Well done to all of the ARA's who continue to put in their all for the animals despite this insanity, without you the movement would be an empty shell. Peace x
Anonymous
What do you guys want?
05.01.2014 02:04
Aran
You need to ask
05.01.2014 04:17
We would also welcome an apology for all the trouble you have caused with that stupid fascist apologist group non human first.
Human emancipation animal liberation always has been always will be
Real Animal Activist
Grow some balls anonymous cowards inc. PGTips!
05.01.2014 09:51
And when are ppl going to put their real names by their comments?
If you are so sure of yourselves, state who you are who are attacking Aran, myself, and others who will not give in to your thought-policing!
Go on grow some balls!
So brave behind your computers aren't you?
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
And another thing..
05.01.2014 09:55
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
@Lesley
05.01.2014 11:19
When are you going to get around to answering the questions regarding your violence towards ie defenceless school girls?
Mods-please dont delete this time, Lesley has stated shes happy to have the questions publicised and Id really like to hear her answers.
Commanche
Answers ?
05.01.2014 12:28
PGTips
I refuse to respond to anonymous cowards again
05.01.2014 13:31
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
it's crumbling...
05.01.2014 13:33
Well said @real animal activist! I would like to second your statement in response to Arans question and also @multiorthored, accurate analogy on how Anoop Ghale handed Aran the baton in their relay race to decimate the UK animal liberation movement in spite of his protestations to the contrary.
A shift indeed! How interesting! word is that co author of the non humans first declaration page and master of manupulation Luke Beevers has 'unliked' said page and has made a statement which contradicts it! Progress or manipulation.... hmm time will tell but he's been well and truly sussed. Again.
Luke Beevers has still failed to acknowledge and take responsibility for that which Aran interestingly disassociated himself from when he said "it wasn't my demo!". The fact that, as pointed out by anti fascist crews locally it is clear he knew known fash were to attend his demo. Are we supposed to believe that an intelligent young man such as Luke Beevers who has studied Law claimes to have missed the swastika in the 'going' paige of his own demo?
Make your minds up lads.... "I didn't know he/they were coming" AND "so what if he/they were we welcome them!"
Consider the fact there are pictures of Danial Carter (who racist apologist Aran Mathai continues to defend by painting him as some sort of a bookish intellectual) has been pictured giving the salute over a white power flag. Demonstrating behaviour that the rest of society abhors, creating a platform for then linking it directly to the cause for animal liberation in a manner which could not harm the movement any more if he tried.
And then comes the punch line! The man's been banned! Shouldn't Luke Beevers, whose failiure to acknowledge or take responsibility for somehow 'missing' the swastika on Carters profile page now recognise how he and his puppet 'master' Aran Mathai themselves have resorted to the same banning outcome they themselves heavily criticised. "he went voluntarily I hear them cry" in an attempt to justify their no ban stance even though the nhfd itself states nazis behaving like nazis on demos are not welcome, a rediculous statement considering these far right freaks and easily linked on line for the world to see as in the latest case involving Carter. nhfd heavily exaggerated the happening of such bans which have been used as a last resort by groups of genuinely compassionate people who have in fact attempted meaningful dialouge with individuals in order to avoid having to ban them in the first place. Anoop was invited for mediation for instance, something which is also encourged by the nhfd prior to banning someone. We have yet to see any evidence whatsoever that banning the likes of Anoop has been inappropriate as level headed activists would never turn anyone away unless they were counter productive.
Anyway it's of noteworthy interest that Luke Beevers has unliked the nhfd supporters page, he's done the right thing as not doing so would simply render his public statement as meaningless.
It's crumbling Aran. Sure you'll talk numbers of 'likes' on your dreadful page but it's activists in the fields and on streets on a regular basis that matter among other actions. It was never going to last here anyway as you are widely known for suggesting that you and other 269'ers are the only ones who recognise the emergency situation our most vulnerable are in. You are widely known as a counter productive liability to the very movement you claim to support.
For the animals. Ghale.
ghale for a laugh
Cops here I think
05.01.2014 13:53
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
Priceless lesley dove
05.01.2014 14:00
PapersPlease
Mediation what a freakin' joke!
05.01.2014 15:11
Because all some of you ever wanted was Anoop out, Aran out, Luke B out, George out, Anthony out, Me out, even Luke Steele out, on nothing more or less than the basis of his brother's politics(!), even though Luke is one of the best and intelligent anti-vivisection campaigners we have!
I would only go to mediation with certain ppl from the Hallmarks side, eg Debbie Deboo would be an example of a reasonable person, and as for the type who write this vile rubbish no way would I ever trust them as far as I could throw their sorry asses, not in a million lifetimes!
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
Choose the river not the bowl
05.01.2014 15:25
Calm, compassionate, considered and honest. Putting the needs of others before his own. Yes, one of the best interviews I've seen. Well done Keith.
For anyone who hasn't seen it or even if you have, may I suggest taking 20mins out and have a watch;
Cheers
jesse
@Lesley Dove
05.01.2014 15:54
No Platform
As stated.
05.01.2014 17:06
Aran
Go on what have you horrible lot got to hide?
05.01.2014 18:21
When I know the identity of my attackers here then maybe I will reply more fully since you (PGTips in particular) clearly have NO real of the irrelevant issues you are raising about me, and I want to give some answers. What I do not understand is what relevance PGTips' questions to me have to the issue at hand. I would like to know how my issues with smokers (only raised to smear me) relate to alleged racists in AR.. go on please explain that someone, anyone, then also maybe I can explain what has really happened, although I think it has been explained before well enough to anyone caring to hear my side.
I will keep on asking for people to reveal their identities, until it is done!
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
on the same topic
05.01.2014 18:56
Debbie
Fat-shaming and ableism
05.01.2014 19:08
I find it above all very odd that such behaviour would come from some on the supposedly anti-discrimination side! Hypocrites! They may be against racism but are not bothered about ppl being made ill through no fault of their own, due to an allergy or sensitivity which they already know about! People going to an AR demo on organised transport should be able to feel safe and be assured that laws against the driver lighting up a cigarette and smoking in a hired coach will be adhered to, and they should be able to rely on it that ppl will look out for them when they get made ill, and yet that did not happen for me. Shame on those who did not help and have sided with the scum driver.. I will never trust such ppl again! How dare PGTips make me out to be the villain for "grassing" that bastard of a driver when I had been made so ill! ARAs should support me not him!
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
The kind of people we are dealing with here
05.01.2014 19:14
"She is the real Moaner Lise though, whines about her health, is a really bad cake maker, oh and has had two failed pretend suicide attempts. Mind you if my girlfriend looked like her, I would want to kill myself too. Didn't her mum kill herself? Must be because she had such an ugly daughter who looks like she is a retard. "
I was also called a mong, a spastic, a retard, a munter.
Is this what we want in AR. I find the reference to my mother (who died four years ago of cancer incidently) particularly upsetting, I couldn't care less about the jibes about my looks. What kind of person would say things like that about someone's dead mother? I'm referencing it here just so everyone can see what kind of disgusting vile individuals the NHFS wants to welcome into its ranks.
I'm sure most of them are not like the individual I have quoted above. I hope not.
Debbie
I condemn the statements about Debbie.
05.01.2014 19:33
Aran
identity
05.01.2014 19:36
Debbie
tick tock tick tock
05.01.2014 19:41
Totally uncalled for and highly inappropriate.
Awam mathai... we, that is loads of us in the movement who have made real changes without going on about it, couldn't give a hoot what views on here you will and will not consider due to our right to protect our anonymity as your opinion counts for sweet FA.
Fact is sunshine, the clock is ticking for you and your fucked up racist NHFD Awam Mathai
tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock
You are fucked 'pal'
Mrs G Hammond ;-)
Gladys Hammond
@Debbie
05.01.2014 19:46
Aran
Disgusting anoop you really are VILE
05.01.2014 19:49
Your a disgrace to the animal animal rights and a utter shameful human being i hope you find peace in yourself as you clearly are a disturbed woman
And aran as i'm here i may as well comment.
Aran i think the only think thats pissed people off is this whole shit of acceptance of fascism you know how fractured the AR is atm it was not the smartest move to time it just when we are at our weakest (but then again my personal opinion)
jon proctor
@ jon proctor
05.01.2014 19:58
Aran
@Deb
05.01.2014 20:29
George
Social Primates do Politics
05.01.2014 20:51
You said
"I do not support banning people for their personal views,"
These are political views though aren't they?
I know yer average bovine doesn't do politics except for the odd plucky defence against predators.
Hey they got 'em surrounded! yea!
but yer average social primate does do politics, probly why we're so fucked
Ah Machiavelli, divide and rule anyone?.
2%Human
@george
05.01.2014 20:57
Debbie
Editorial guidelines
05.01.2014 21:03
My guess is that the really offensive personal comments are being posted by a fascist.
Please read the guidelines and abide by them.
imcista
Homepage:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/static/editorial.html
Take your bile elsewhere anoop
05.01.2014 21:20
Aran can you not admit people who grass are a liability to the whole uk animal rights movement and need OUTING and BOOTING or will you work with grasses ?
The line has to be drawn somewhere and the line for most ar's is Racists / fascists / grasses OUT !
jon to anoop the police informing grass
Pictures of NHFD admins
05.01.2014 21:44
As yet no-one has denied that Aran Mathai, George House and Sasha Booja are the admins. The picture of Daniel Carter is also relevant as it shows that he was at a demo.
imcista
Homepage:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/static/editorial.html
Admins.
05.01.2014 21:55
Aran
Images now removed
05.01.2014 22:14
In future if you have an issue with moderation - DO NOT USE THE COMMENTS - contact the appropriate list:
Complaints about moderation will be hidden,
It is also probably time to stop the feeding the trolls........
All guideline breaking comments will continue to be hidden as speedily as we can manage.
imcista
What is your intention?
05.01.2014 22:54
I'd just like to know what exactly it is you hallmarkers want me to do... Don't confuse that with the fact that I still don't give a shit, I just don't understand what you want, from any of us. Because you should realise I'm never going to stop acting on my beliefs based on what a bunch of liars and hippies are saying. So do tell me what you want, because you can pretty much completely forget me stopping my activism. :)
George
accurate!
05.01.2014 22:57
George House
In the House
Paul Gravett here
05.01.2014 23:08
I do not know what this other person said about her and frankly I don't care. It has been my misfortune to know her since the eighties and during that time she has always been a divisive and pernicious figure in the movement.
She also has a history of aggression and violence towards those she dislikes. I was at the London Greenpeace Fair in 1989 when she attacked my friend and fellow activist, Helen Steel, grabbing her hair and pulling her to the floor. Lesley was not part of the group but turned up to hand out anti-choice propaganda. When asked to leave she turned violent.
I was also at a London Vegans meeting in the mid nineties when she again assaulted another activist. This time it was because she was asked if she could stop her baby crying or leave as the noise was disrupting the meeting. I should add the person doing this did it in a calm and polite manner but she turned violent. She was then banned from London Vegans for several years.
It is well known that we do not get on. In my opinion she probably has a personality disorder. That she remains in the animal rights movement after all she has done is testament to the tolerance and forgiveness of the people there. Anywhere else she would have been booted out decades ago.
Paul Vegan Anarchist
I don't really mind as long as its true
05.01.2014 23:37
Nice one trying to piss me off though, you failed. Says a lot how much you stand behind what you say and do not stating your name though dosent it? :)
George
Who is interested in what happened that long ago?
06.01.2014 09:19
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
Paul, the mystery Paul
06.01.2014 09:21
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
Gravett
06.01.2014 09:31
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
Just pissed off aren't you Gravett?
06.01.2014 10:01
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
My last word to Gravett
06.01.2014 10:16
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
Moderators..
06.01.2014 12:31
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
What's this?
06.01.2014 12:54
Interested
Racist houses
06.01.2014 12:57
i bet
Lets see how quick he is to infiltrate your demos (or lack of) ect and how quick you will go running to mummy, then again you do fuck all apart from big up your EGO so i suppose you wont have to worry about that too much
This whole article is a joke your all going round the houses no pun intended
Fascists are not welcome full stop !! Now run along kids
Househunter
let everyone know
06.01.2014 14:12
why didn't we hear about any bigger steps in the campaign?show this person to others?another anti choice hysterical figure?or this just another bullshit?
curious vegan
Cop outs and trolls!
06.01.2014 14:50
"Lesley, so show everyone who is this wonderful person for deer campaign?there were more than a few activists who really wanted to stand for this cause,but you made it impossible for them;(
why didn't we hear about any bigger steps in the campaign?show this person to others?another anti choice hysterical figure?or this just another bullshit?
curious vegan"
What? I never banned anyone from the deer campaign, and I never refused to work with anyone, just the opposite have been crying out for help for 4 yrs on this! I am sure ppl who know me and do not just go on this pathetic childish gossip about me will testify to that.. and actually the person I work with closely now on it is strongly pro-choice, and we do not let it be a problem between us! Why should it be since I do not demand that my fellow campaigners agree with me on non-AR issues? It makes me quite OK at working with a variety of ppl! I will say no more until I know who these (imaginary) activists are! It's just a big cop out on their part to do nothing really.. clearly! Perfect excuse that you do not get on with the organiser.. I am reasonable with anyone who behaves reasonably to me! They never gave me a chance whoever they are, just for the sake of their egos coming higher in their priorities than the animals.
I do not want to drag my friend's name into this, real activists in London know who she is! You prove you are not a real activist in London by not knowing her!!!!
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
Lesley has been my friend for over 20 years
07.01.2014 15:42
I don't agree with Lesley's insistence that working with racists is no different from working with people with whom one disagrees on issues like abortion. (I think Ronnie Lee made the same argument once.) To me, doing so would bring veganism/animal campaigning into disrepute and alienate people of colour.
However, Lesley herself has never been remotely racist or homophobic. Ever. She has always, the whole time I have known her, she has consistently opposed racism, sexism, war, the death penalty, animal (ab)use, homelessness, homophobia and abortion (except where the woman's health is at risk).
Katharine A Gilchrist
What was the point again?
07.01.2014 23:22
Not so upstanding
confusing
08.01.2014 00:33
What is clear is that creating an open door policy for fascists as per the NHFD will alienate people, put off more potential activists and sabotage attempts to achieve freedom for the pictured victim.
Liberation
The four step model for being baffling.
08.01.2014 03:41
Step two: find that people attend demos who have clear fascist politics, attracted by an open door policy.
Step three: Act surprised when the association with those who champion the abuse of other humans, consider some people less equil than others and toy with the imagery of regimes which tortured and murdered millions, causes a bit of a flap.
Step four: "politely ask a fascist not to attend demos".
What exactly did you expect? If you build it, they will come.
Most of society abhors faschists. They won't be drawn to a movement that welcomes them. We claim to fight oppression, inequality and want to stop an 'animal holocaust', while welcoming those who support events that coined that term. We want wider society to join us, but tell them their rights are irrelivent. We risk leaving valued and loved collogues open to abuse, for nothing more than their colour or sexuality. We fail to protect the innocent. Which is a new approach in AR, I assume.
Fillet o pish
Hypocrisy and double standards of the "ban racists" gang.
08.01.2014 08:24
Yet again I expose and question the hallmarkers hypocrisy!
Lesley Dove
e-mail:
lesleyvegandove@gmail.com
Lesley, no Offence, But
08.01.2014 13:46
I would say, "Next, you'll be saying that feminists are unfair to men". But I hope that isn't the case.
Katharine A Gilchrist
Raised/Clenched Fist
08.01.2014 22:24
Black Power grew from the civil rights movement and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee which campaigned against the Vietnam War. Some of its supporters were separatists, saying blacks and whites couldn't live together, but most weren't. The Black Panther Party, for instance, believed in fighting existing white-dominated power structures but not in a racial war.
Bobby Seale, co-founder of the Black Panther Party said: "Working class people of all colours must unite against the exploitative, oppressive ruling class...we believe our fight is a class struggle and not a race struggle." Black Power is definitely not the same as the racist ideology of black supremacy which maintains that black people are superior to other races.
The "Black Fist Salute" is actually but one version of the raised/clenched fist salute which is a symbol of solidarity and resistance that has been used by many different campaigns and movements - mainly but not exclusively of the left - since the early twentieth century. It has been co-opted by new struggles as they have emerged, such as the Occupy movement, Earth First! and the animal rights movement.
Paul Vegan Anarchist
@leslie
09.01.2014 12:29
Anon
Support your Lush shop
09.01.2014 13:12
A cruelty free shopper for sure
Anti Body shop
Please go play with some traffic children
09.01.2014 17:59
Most of the people commenting are just haters
Bored of this shit
sensible Post
09.01.2014 19:06
I am writing this to ask you all to knock it on the head. This trolling has to stop the personal insults and wild accusations also have to stop. it is not helping the animals we are meant to be fighting for.
This whole thread was about racism and fascism and its head within the Animal rights.
This battle has been had before over the hallmarks and exclusions and banning. There is a time and a place to debate this Indymedia is not it (sorry and no offence to the mods)
This war of words has been bitter and has resulted in a lot of heated and while eye accusations being flung about like confetti. I think its time we all took stock looked at ourself and took ourself away from indymedia and this tread.
Lesley i know there is a heated and tence fight between yourself and paul but again this is neither the time nor the place to have that fight or debate.
We have got to remember this whole thread was about some activists disputing other activists it should of been left off indymedia and if a discussion was needed and yes i do think there is a discussion to be had. it should be done away from the public eye.
I think if any new activists saw this thread they would either laugh or be ashamed. its time to end this trolling and the mud slinging. Non human first do their thing and those animal activists who oppose non human first do their thing.
We have to get new activists on board not turn them away with bitter old arguments.
The imc's have moderated this post extreamly well deleting posts that have contained some disgusting and vulgar things being said so thank you to the indy mods
This is my last post on this. I do hope this is all your last posts on this thread.
thanks
Jon
Jonathon proctor
Homepage:
www.jonathonproctor.wordpress.com
@Jon
09.01.2014 19:11
Words of wisdom from one of the biggest trolls in the movement
Anon
@Jonathon proctor
09.01.2014 19:18
interested
An explanation about moderation (for the noobs)
12.01.2014 08:20
Some people tried to gate-keep by trolling the article relentlessly in the hope that they would force us to 'take it down' - that is gate-keeping and we don't allow people to control the site, for the wrong reasons if we can possibly help it. This is because we are anti-authoritarian ARE* biased,and we try as hard as we can to live by the mission statement of the site. we do not stand for attacks on activists - we stand for joined-up activism and diversity of tactics.
*"Inherent in the mainstream corporate media is a strong bias towards Capitalism's power structures, and it is an important tool in propagating these structures around the globe. While the mainstream media conceal their manifold biases and alignments, we clearly state our position. Indymedia UK does not attempt to take an objective and impartial standpoint: Indymedia UK clearly states its subjectivity."
If you, like us, are serious about a better world where all humans and animals run free together, in harmony - free of the horrors of this evil system with its capitalist infrastructure, military Industrial complex, factory farms and abhorrent authoritarian fascist ideology, then you are welcome to stick around, learn more about us, and help us to start growing a better world.
If you have sympathy for fascist ideology, and this disgusting system that enslaves our minds, our bodies and the animals, you're almost certainly in the wrong place and not really welcome until you start thinking for yourselves.......
Hopefully the bun-fight about whether fascists should in any way be welcomed into the movement is closer to being resolved, with some biased input from us. Comments about moderation will continue to be hidden and if you're genuine then use the lists. Comments which moderators feel are outside the 'spirit' of Indymedia uk (whatever that is) will continue to be hidden.
because we ARE biased and we really do give a fuck.
love and rage (and fuck the fash)
IMCista
Homepage:
https://lists.indymedia.org.uk/pipermail/moderation/2014-January/001495.html
Veganism is for everyone.
12.01.2014 14:16
Non-Humans First Declaration Supporters Page
Homepage:
https://www.facebook.com/NonHumansFirstDeclarationSupportersPage
@Non-Humans First Declaration Supporters Page
12.01.2014 19:53
Caleb
Yes sign on at Farce Book
12.01.2014 20:13
Thanks
GCHQ
Importance of human fist in AR movement, it'll always be there!
13.01.2014 22:00
@indymods, thanks for your clarification above we know you are on the same page, cheers!
Liberation
@Lesley, so?
14.01.2014 18:59
Pixie Twixie
@ everyone
06.02.2014 14:38
Why dont you use your time you sit and keyboard warrior on here, on REAL issues like time spent on animal rights causes??
When is one particular so called "activist" is going to stop his hate campaigns??
When will you put the animals first??
We are all supposed to be on the same f,,ing side!!
Its shameful the movement has become how it is now, its ridiculed and damaged by these kids who have helped ruin it.
Its so shameful that certain people are causing so much damage, and when will people wake up to this??
"Hi All.
I am writing this to ask you all to knock it on the head. This trolling has to stop the personal insults and wild accusations also have to stop. it is not helping the animals we are meant to be fighting for.
This war of words has been bitter and has resulted in a lot of heated and while eye accusations being flung about like confetti. I think its time we all took stock looked at ourself and took ourself away from indymedia and this tread.
I think if any new activists saw this thread they would either laugh or be ashamed. its time to end this trolling and the mud slinging.
We have to get new activists on board not turn them away with bitter old arguments."
Proctor says this??? This is a laugh, hes caused most of this and as usual from him,shows what a hypocrite he really is!!
He slams people for supporting racism, but has racists on his freinds list!!
And some of you really need to give your heads a shake, and grow up!
“When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.”
Fiona Munro
Zip it munro
24.02.2014 15:21
proctor to munro
Racists have no place
09.03.2014 13:39
I believe that it is counter-productive to expect people of colour (and white anti-racists) to hold hands with racists in the interests of a fake unity. I do not believe that we can successfully promote veganism whilst accepting prejudice within our own ranks. We must exclude racists if we are to be seen as rational, fair and accepting of new vegans from all backgrounds and walks of life.
Racism is not something that should be ignored. The working towards the goal of a vegan world must incorporate the elimination of racism and other forms of prejudice if it is to succeed.
Katharine A Gilchrist