These people are giving you something that they are asking no fee for, their business plan is based around targeted advertising.

If you do not want to buy into that plan simply stop using their services, delete your account and you will have no more problems.

If you really think that the world should have free email and other services without advertising then I suggest you set it up, pay for the infastructure and the technical support and then let everyone know about it. I sure would be happy to use it.

"If you really think that the world should have free email and other services without advertising then I suggest you set it up, pay for the infastructure and the technical support and then let everyone know about it. I sure would be happy to use it. "

Or just go to your government at a time of international terrorist threat coming from all directions and watch the money flood in to your little "internet" company.

Not really surprising the whole "free" bit is it?

Government is always going to be happier than you at your use of this "free" poison.

"These people are giving you something that they are asking no fee for, their business plan is based around targeted advertising."

Not likely in the real world. America is at war and that war coincides exactly with the rise of these internet giants. Work it out and if you can't, at least have the decency to stop yapping while the rest of us figure it out.

"If you do not want to buy into that plan simply stop using their services, delete your account and you will have no more problems."

The spread of these companies influence means its now very difficult to take part in society without using these products. I use the Android system and operate daily to undermine the software and those who control it. We should all do this.

"If you really think that the world should have free email and other services without advertising then I suggest you set it up, pay for the infastructure and the technical support and then let everyone know about it. I sure would be happy to use it."

What really allows you comment to be taken in context is that you are an American. I cannot see how anybody that lives outside the US has anything whatsoever to gain by supporting these US outfits. Its better to keep our wealth in our own countries. Its better for everybody.

There are plenty of systems out there that do not require you to use US (or any other countries) advert based products.

I really don't have a lot of time for people who say there are no alternatives when what they really mean is they can't be bothered to look.

It's also worth saying that there are millions of people around the world who manage to live happy fullfilled active lives with no interactions with the internet whatsover, many of them in developed countries. As an example both of my parents who do not own a computer, have never used one and have no intention of buying one. Despite this they both have full time jobs in important areas of society. A former school friend of mine works as a vet in rural Scotland where there is no internet coverage and yet he lives a perfectly good life.


The point I'm making that sitting in Starbucks, checking facebook on your MacBook and reading Gmails while complaining about US Capitalism's involvement in the IT industry is just stupid !

"The point I'm making that sitting in Starbucks, checking facebook on your MacBook and reading Gmails while complaining about US Capitalism's involvement in the IT industry is just stupid !"

Nice try but not really good enough. That's a populist mantrap which just doesn't cut it. You'll be telling us that every bit of technology in a computer comes from Israel next! Simple minded talking points in the propaganda lexicon of the major war powers. Not suitable for dissemination among civilised people. Denigrating activist as "middle-class" and careless consumers of the token they oppose is a well known tactic very commonly used by imperial loyalists.

You are an American loyalist of the machine that pays your way. Why would you be considered capable of departing responsible opinions objectively?

"I really don't have a lot of time for people who say there are no alternatives when what they really mean is they can't be bothered to look."

Where there are genuine alternatives to American hegemony, we usually do look. Because you are usually at war with them before long!

"It's also worth saying that there are millions of people around the world who manage to live happy fullfilled active lives with no interactions with the internet whatsover, many of them in developed countries. As an example both of my parents who do not own a computer, have never used one and have no intention of buying one. Despite this they both have full time jobs in important areas of society. A former school friend of mine works as a vet in rural Scotland where there is no internet coverage and yet he lives a perfectly good life."

All except Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Yemen, Sudan, Kenya, Bahrain, Ukraine, Greece etc etc etc.

No, this will not do. It is right and proper to oppose what is now rightly seen as a very large scale surveillance system put into place by the Americans to gather intelligence on a global scale. It isn't targeted, it is entirely indiscriminate. It is designed to gather the highest rate of data possible and nobody is in control of it. You are as apt to find your private information in the hands of US companies and corporations as intelligence analysts. There is no cogent judgement in place about how that data is used. If you use these large "internet giants" you and your data is being surveilled by default.

You have nothing to gain by taking seriously the infantile garbage spouted by the feeble-minded and tyrannical defenders and apologists of this disastrous and now global failure of logic.

It is Imperialism...and that is all it ever was.

"The point I'm making that sitting in Starbucks, checking facebook on your MacBook and reading Gmails while complaining about US Capitalism's involvement in the IT industry is just stupid ! "

Erm, goon alert.

>>The spread of these companies influence means its now very difficult to take part in society without using these products. I use the Android system and operate daily to undermine the software and those who control it. We should all do this.

You try to undermine a piece of software that your use!?!?
Are you fucking nuts?

If you don't like it - then don't use it
If you like it - then use it
If you want to write your own - hten write your own


Fuck knows that "undermine android software on a daily basis" actually means. Probably fuck all

>> The spread of these companies influence means its now very difficult to take part in society without using these products. I use the Android system and operate daily to undermine the software and those who control it. We should all do this.

ok go for it. You are allowed to start today (22 January 2014). I look forward to seeing what you manage to achieve in this en-devour.

"Nice try but not really good enough. "

Not for you perhaps.

The rest of us have the intellectual ability to understand the faulty reasoning in being critical of something that they do not need to use because they do not like it,

But of course I'm simply part of the great Imperialist plot that only you can perceive aren't i ?

"You try to undermine a piece of software that your use!?!?
Are you fucking nuts?"

Yep, yer an Amerikan.

"ok go for it. You are allowed to start today (22 January 2014). I look forward to seeing what you manage to achieve in this en-devour."

The Android system is an abuse of privacy and the users dignity. Why would I end up supplying software for it for no other reason than strengthening its abuses?

"The rest of us have the intellectual ability to understand the faulty reasoning in being critical of something that they do not need to use because they do not like it,"

You don't speak for "us". But do you speak for the "US".

"But of course I'm simply part of the great Imperialist plot that only you can perceive aren't i ?"

The imperialist plot that only I can understand?

Tell that to the thousands upon thousands upon thousands that burned your embassies to the ground in 2012 all over the world. They too see the real and evidenced imperial plot you dumb-arse American trolls are desperate to believe the rest of the world cannot see.

Your problem is you think the rest of the world is dumb.

And that makes you dumb.

I'm an American ?
WRONG - Aside from the fact that I don't recognise nationalities therefore I regard myself as a citizen of the planet however I was born in Spain to a Cuban father and Spanish mother, educated in England where I continue to live to this day.

I 'speak' for the US ?
WRONG - I speak for many people but those who know me will tell you that is the last country on Earth I would ever 'speak' for.

I'm "dumb"
WRONG - I have well educated in both the academic sense and the street sense and pride myself on being a lifelong learner.

Your immature writing style indicates you are a young person with a limited political knowledge / thinking and are probably quite new to the activist scene. Nothuing wrong with that of course and it is good you are here where more seasoned voices will help to educate you but I would suggest you make a start by not insulting those who know and understand the world better than you.

Y'all have a good day there buddy !

Excellent response dude

Just wanted to say that.

"would suggest you make a start by not insulting those who know and understand the world better than you."

The joy of youth, that time in one's life when one just 'knows' all the answers !

As we can see above some time spent listening to more mature heads often pays dividends

" Your immature writing style indicates you are a young person with a limited political knowledge / thinking and are probably quite new to the activist scene. Nothuing wrong with that of course and it is good you are here where more seasoned voices will help to educate you but I would suggest you make a start by not insulting those who know and understand the world better than you."

Thirteen years in activism and counting. I am very experienced. And it is that experience which allows me to identify you for the fraud you so obviously are.

You say you are a world citizen mister metal head, but you defend the US spying machine. You are a nationalist pretending to be something you are very definately not.

The fact your comments have dropped so easily into ad hominem attacks against me while studiously avoiding the matter at hand is quite usual for your brand of politics. Dont bother dealing with the global US surveillence super state....instead try tio claim very stupidly that i am young and naive and not to be listened to.

Then follow it up with a few comments using other peoples names agreeing with yourself!

Lamentable, truly lamentable.

Yer a shambles son.

Makey,

I am sure you are sincere but your writing does come across as that of a sixth form student who has just discovered Émile Durkheim and thinks that nobody else knows about how the world works. You will find that people disagree with you and maybe challenge your views, please do not assume this makes them agents of US imperialism !

Those of us who have been active before the rise of the internet do sometimes look on in detached amusement at people who seem to think that somehow this vast US military founded and funded global machine is 'theirs'. Organisations like Google are no more philanthropic than any other Capitalist enterprise and why people seem to think that their products should be a) free and b) unmonitored amazes me. States have been using methods to spy on their citizens as well as their enemies since the time of Henry Beaufort and the 'letter gangs'.

The good news is that many alternatives do exist with open source and freeware systems easy to obtain and use worldwide. Have a look at sites like

 http://www.freewarehome.com/
 http://www.majorgeeks.com/
 http://www.tucows.com

Best of luck.

a) Your view differs from mine = you are an American

b) You point out errors I have made in my assumptions = you are an American who is an agent of the military/industrial complex

c) Other people agree with you = you are an American who is an agent of the military/industrial complex and so are they


Is the NSA and GCHQ spying on us ? Probably not in the personal sense, I doubt any of us here feature very highly on their list of things or people that they consider a threat to the country or current political system. In the same way that Tariq Ali discovered that his MI5 file rated him as "irritating but mostly harmless" I expect they regard us in the same light.

The Snowden revelations show very clearly the US priorities for the next decade and beyond and the European 'Left' is certainly not something they are giving a lot of thought to. Lockheed Martin reported that its systems receive nearly 50,000 automated attempts a day from China to break its firewalls, I think it's that's stuff which will be more of interest to the NSA and the rest.

Some good points there.

I think we have all at one time fallen into the trap of begining to develop our social, political and judicial knowledge then have rather patronizingly started to 'educate' those around us. I know I look back on some of the work I wrote at university with toes curled :-)

The generation that has grown up with the internet does at times seem unable to understand that it is primarily funded by advertising and as such they are not its users or even its customers they are its products to be sold by one group to another. A shame but a reality.

Like others I share the frustration of hearing people who feel unable to live their lives without buying in to the US corporate tools that they then bemone because they are manipulated by them either socialy or commercialy. There are many, many alternatives to the major US email servers, web search engines and operating systems yet how many times have I seen users of Windows, Outlook, Facebook, Twitter and the rest say they have "no choice", makes me want to scream !

Best wishes
Roger.

"Lockheed Martin reported that its systems receive nearly 50,000 automated attempts a day from China to break its firewalls, I think it's that's stuff which will be more of interest to the NSA and the rest."

Lockheed Martin you say!

I guess that company would obviously merit the attention of the US Government in its blind attempts to engineer yet more threats to Amerikan security. It makes perfect sense.

Now, back in the real world, the "left" as you call it is not in itself a movement that warrants US attention, apart from the US long-going war against the left in every country you can imagine (Baath in Syria & Iraq anyone?), its more that there is a global movement for change which is taking place globally, yes, globally, the very same globally that Amerika is so concerned with dominating and controlling. So for that reason, we are all of interest to the Amerikans.

I guess glossing over this simple but very obvious fact is good for the loyalist clans, but its hardly realistic in any other sense.

We must all remain vigilant against these threats, and we must all be wary of those who apologise on behalf of those who are engineering these threats.

------------------------

P.S

"The good news is that many alternatives do exist with open source and freeware systems easy to obtain and use worldwide. Have a look at sites like"

 http://www.freewarehome.com/
 http://www.majorgeeks.com/
 http://www.tucows.com


freewarhome.com is registered by the large-scale German company 1and1 and which is in turn owned by the larger German conglomerate United Internet. Germany is a partner in the "five eyes" program of surveillance so you can guarantee that United Internet will be passing information over to US intelligence. Why wouldn't they? A basic Whois record check confirms that the abuse email/technical and registrant addresses are all gmail accounts (need I say more?).

A decent activist of any standing would know this.



majorgeeks.com is registered to the US company goDaddy and the registrant is confirmed as living and operating in New York. The Patriot Act takes care of the rest.

A decent activist of any standing would know this.



tucows.com is known about by all and sundry and is a routine collector of intelligence because it is a large Canadian company with its HQ based in Ontario. Like United Internet it is operating in a country which is part of the "five eyes" program and so you can guarantee that it will be passing information oer to US intelligence. Why wouldn't they?

A decent activist of any standing would know this.


"I am sure you are sincere but your writing does come across as that of a sixth form student who has just discovered Émile Durkheim and thinks that nobody else knows about how the world works. You will find that people disagree with you and maybe challenge your views, please do not assume this makes them agents of US imperialism !"

I am just old enough to know the environment before the internet came along but also young enough to know how the internet works and where the surveillance holes exist. Unfortunately, I have found that "older" activists suffer from cynicism and a certain jaded attitude which usually comes along as they "mature". Time and time again I have seen "older" activists talk with great expertise about the olden days but when tasked to produce knowledge about the modern environment they tend to shrivel up into ignorance and naivity.

And worst of all, they tend to spread that naivity using the very tools that have been created to expose them.

I think we are done here.

"The generation that has grown up with the internet does at times seem unable to understand that it is primarily funded by advertising and as such they are not its users or even its customers they are its products to be sold by one group to another. A shame but a reality."

A simple minded analysis which completely ignores the current strategic reality of the position the United States finds itself in.

Its almost like the War on Terror never happened!

"Lockheed Martin

I guess that company would obviously merit the attention of the US Government in its blind attempts to engineer yet more threats to Amerikan security. It makes perfect sense."

>>Well it may well make "perfect sense" to you but I am sure others read it for what it was. >>An explanation of why that type of threat to the US is more important than an Indy reader

Now, back in the real world, the "left" as you call it is not in itself a movement that warrants US attention

>> Glad we agree.

We are all of interest to the Amerikans.

>> No we are not - next


"freewarhome.com is registered by the large-scale German company 1and1 and which is in turn owned by the larger German conglomerate United Internet. Germany is a partner in the "five eyes" program of surveillance"

>> No, it's not. The 'five eyes' members are the US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand

" so you can guarantee that United Internet will be passing information over to US intelligence.

>> No I can't and neither can you ?

"A basic Whois record check confirms that the abuse email/technical and registrant addresses are all gmail accounts (need I say more?).

A decent activist of any standing would know this.
>> Somebody with a basic understanding of Whois records would understand that a registering country is of little reference to how and where an organisation operates.



majorgeeks.com is registered to the US company goDaddy and the registrant is confirmed as living and operating in New York

>> What's your point. GoDaddy is a cheap easy way to register a website, millions of people >>use them.
The Patriot Act takes care of the rest.
>> Don't be silly


tucows.com is known about by all and sundry and is a routine collector of intelligence because it is a large Canadian company with its HQ based in Ontario. Like United Internet it is operating in a country which is part of the "five eyes" program and so you can guarantee that it will be passing information over to US intelligence.
>> There is no "guarantee" whatsover. Glad to see you got one of the 'Five Eyes' countries right thought - good for you.


"I am sure you are sincere but your writing does come across as that of a sixth form student who has just discovered Émile Durkheim and thinks that nobody else knows about how the world works. You will find that people disagree with you and maybe challenge your views, please do not assume this makes them agents of US imperialism !"

I am just old enough to know the environment before the internet came along but also young enough to know how the internet works and where the surveillance holes exist.
>> please do share your important knowledge

Unfortunately, I have found that "older" activists suffer from cynicism and a certain jaded attitude which usually comes along as they "mature".
>> Better to be old and cynical then young and stupid I would suggest ?

Time and time again I have seen "older" activists talk with great expertise about the olden days but when tasked to produce knowledge about the modern environment they tend to shrivel up into ignorance and naivity.
>> and plenty of times they don't. Next

I think we are done here.
>> Couldn't agree more - better luck next time

Face it "older head", you got pwned.

Nothing to say dear boy, nothing to say.

Was that when he/she pointed out all the mistakes you made ?

LOL !