Looks like BAA have paid out for another TLC injunction that is doomed to fail, and make them look plane stupid.

looks like tlc's baby will be his undoing! this looks like to be the 3rd failed (that i know of) to get against protestors!

It was most enlightening to listen to the defendants speaking to the press after the today's hearing, particularly Leo Murray explaining his knowledge of the history of the Protection from Harassment Act which in his words was supposed to be used to control "stalkers and animal rights nuts".

Nicely done, Leo, that's the kind of solidarity that really helps to strengthen social movements.

@niemoller flew short haul

I agree that Leo Murray should not have said that, if he did.

Protection from Harassment Act was formally intended to be used against:
* stalkers
* neighbours from hell
* racial harassment
in each case where the individual actions are not serious but become serious because they are repeated.

However some actions, such as digging up bodies, do not just bring Animal Rights into disrepute but to some extent all campaigning.

Solidarity requires all who expect support from others to be responsible for the effect of their actions on others.

You could say the same about people disrupting holiday flights (as Plane Stupid have done), especially if it is the passengers and not the airlines that are affected (as seems especially likely given the Climate Camp's No-Fly Zone pledge). Time will tell.

I'm sure everybody will understand that Leo Murray was only referring to people digging up corpses when he referred to "animal rights nuts" and not any of the other people affected by injunctions other than Newchurch (e.g. Charon, HLS, DHL, Oxford Uni...) and will not see him as equally myopic about the purity of his chosen crusade as the Newchurch gravediggers.

Leo, your comment about "animal rights nuts" was made into the business end of a video camera, so it certainly appeared to be part of an interview rather than a private conversation.

I thought it was right to post it on Indymedia as this seems the best place where those who may be affected by it are likely to see it, although they may not be the intended audience of that video.

I didn't think it was worth discussing it with you personally as it simply confirmed the unspoken consensus expressed in all the press comments on the proposed injunction by Plane Stupid and the other Climate Camp groups. Every restatement of the idea that "They can't do this to us, we're respectable people, some of us are in the National Trust!" carries with it a subtext of "Those other injunctions were okay, they didn't affect people like us."

It's perfectly possible to disagree with the actions of the car-bombers and gravediggers without insulting them (examples can be found in Arkangel 3,  http://www.animalliberationfront.com/ALFront/Arkangel/Arkangel3.htm). I think their actions were counterproductive and dangerous but I don't know enough about them to be so arrogant as to declare that they are not "people of integrity".

Perhaps you should be asking your lawyers for a bit more explanation of the PfHA, then you might know about the essential failure of the SHAC and EDO injunctions, which happened without selling anyone down the river. And, you would know that TLC has been able to profit from the Act so easily because he helped draft it - it is the law itself which is at fault, not those who have suffered by it, and any statement which appears to condone its use against protesters is damaging and divisive.

You betray your true colours by referring to "peaceful protestors", and in so doing insult and defame anybody who has ever lacked the necessary privileges to choose pacifism. It's those people who are most affected by climate change, who you sometimes claim to care about, but you'll happily fuck them over in a heartbeat if it makes you look better before the beak.

If you had a bit more integrity yourself then you wouldn't be able to stomach putting "miles of clear blue water between us and the animal rights lot", you'd stand up for yourself and them, recognising that is the "animal rights lot" who have done the most to fight the PfHA and the associated depredations of NETCU et al. I may not agree with everything you have to say but I'll superglue myself to death for your right to say it. Can you say the same?

As for your request that I email you to "get this straight", if your politics aren't worthy of public discussion, they're not worth discussing at all.

Leo's reply has been hidden, wonder why?

No reason to assume bad faith, because the comment was hidden as requested by its author.

I am a real person, whose name you know - Leo Murray. You also know what I look like since there are pictures of my mug all over the place. You have even stood close enough to me to hear me speak outside the court. You, however, are nothing but a faceless online pseudonym with some really strong opinions, some of which seem to be about me, like you hate me or something. But I don't know you, I don't know your name or what you look like. It's pretty creepy dude, most people don't communicate their grievances only on a message board from behind a fake name. I suspect you may be a granny-digger-upper yourself, hence so defensive.

Your argument for not discussing your misgivings with me personally is rubbish. Clearly you just don't have the balls to act like a decent human being and try to resolve differences with openness and mutual dialogue. There was really no need for any of this, you're just a nasty, sneaky shit-stirrer. Stop hanging around me. Nobody invited you.

So much of what you say about Plane Stupid and the Climate Camp is wrong, I won't bother to try to correct you. Anyone reading these weasel words should just come along to the camp and get involved.

As for anyone offended by my flippant and careless comment, I sincerely apologise. It was definitely rash and I shouldn't have said it, and I totally understand how it could feed into the mainstream media's poisonous narrative of the animal rights movement in a really damaging way. I was under a lot of pressure and probably listening to my lawyers advice a bit more than is healthy for anyone. Sorry about that.