Gaddafi death, the lie is beginning to unravel
Knot-Eyed Jaguar | 24.10.2011 11:53 | Terror War
Now that we are all supposed to swallow the ludicrous idea that Gaddafi was shot evidenced by some of the worst photoshop imagery seen since the lies about the London 11/7 bombings one or two of use have taken the time to view an analyse the footage to help others spot the fakery
Here is the infamous 'mobile phone' film.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXMo8FKFqV4&skipcontrinter=1
Editing -
0.05 film shows different sandals as film is edited between two shots
0.07 claim is that Gaddafi is dead and yet now his eyes are moving and he is looking at camera
0.14 - shows bullet hole, low down on side of temple, later in film hole is high up near top of head
0.23 - soldier is wearing Israeli army Type 21 combat boots. Issued to Special Forces units.
Resolution - the film is clearly recorded on two different resolutions and knitted together.
The colour of the sand varies between shots exposing the different locations.
The Arabic spoken by the soldiers is not representative of Northern African Arabic as spoken by Libyans instead is accented Jordanian Arabic as taught to Israeli soldiers.
The blood on Gaddafi's face is supposed to be fresh and yet it is already dried.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXMo8FKFqV4&skipcontrinter=1 Editing -
0.05 film shows different sandals as film is edited between two shots
0.07 claim is that Gaddafi is dead and yet now his eyes are moving and he is looking at camera
0.14 - shows bullet hole, low down on side of temple, later in film hole is high up near top of head
0.23 - soldier is wearing Israeli army Type 21 combat boots. Issued to Special Forces units.
Resolution - the film is clearly recorded on two different resolutions and knitted together.
The colour of the sand varies between shots exposing the different locations.
The Arabic spoken by the soldiers is not representative of Northern African Arabic as spoken by Libyans instead is accented Jordanian Arabic as taught to Israeli soldiers.
The blood on Gaddafi's face is supposed to be fresh and yet it is already dried.
Knot-Eyed Jaguar
Comments
Hide 34 hidden comments or hide all comments
Wow !
24.10.2011 12:02
Knowing that Israel was involved make sense as the are able to manufacture films like this easily away from the eyes of Western journalists and whistle blowers. I assume they are getting oil in return for keeping their mouths shut.
I will repost this far and wide.
Investigation needed
Not the first time they've done stuff like this
24.10.2011 12:10
Like Judge Lehner, millions of people do not know or remember only vaguely that a third tower called World Trade Center Building 7 also collapsed on September 11, 2001. In any other situation, the complete, free fall collapse of a 47-story skyscraper would be played over and over on the news. It would be discussed for years to come and building design codes would be completely rewritten. So, why does no one know about Building 7? And what made Building 7 come down?
The answers to these questions have far-reaching implications for our society. The goal of the “BuildingWhat?” campaign is to raise awareness of Building 7 so that together we can begin to address these questions.
________________________
What is Building 7?
Building 7 was a 47-story skyscraper and was part of the World Trade Center complex. Built in 1984, it would have been the tallest high-rise in 33 states in the United States. It collapsed at 5:20 pm on September 11, 2001. It was not hit by an airplane and suffered minimal damage compared to other buildings much closer to the Twin Towers.
Watch footage of Building 7 collapse (no sound):
The left's conspiracy of silence
02.09.2010 12:07
It should be beyond obvious that these smart, influential lefties know the truth movement is right about 9-11, and they've known it all along. They are part of the same massive cover-up and conspiracy of silence we see everywhere we turn. The ONLY question is what is their real motivation for attacking 9-11 truth. When you've read their attacks on Bush and Obama foreign and domestic policies, you realize these are brilliant minds that thoroughly investigate their topics. But one thing that stands out is they tend to avoid discussion of government conspiracies, no matter how well documented the conspiracies may be or how well the conspiracies reinforce their stated positions. After assessing all the information for years, I've come to the following conclusions that satisfy, barely, my need for a sensible explanation of the 9-11 cover-up of the left:
1. The left's cover-up of 9-11 is part of a broader cover-up of all conspired activities that originate with the ruling elite, aka the shadow government, the Illuminati, the-powers-that-be, the man behind the curtain, etc. They will not touch ops that were ordered by the elites, but they will defiantly and viciously attack abuses and policies surrounding those orders. For instance, they will not talk about Sibel Edmonds, or former AL governor Don Siegelman, the institutionalization of stolen elections (with a few exceptions), lost nukes, the truth behind the intentional Wall Street collapse, the reality behind al Qaeda, the proliferation of executive orders, etc, BECAUSE I believe these orders were received from above, as in, from above the president. Consequently, for some reason, the left has decided these matters are off-limits.
2. Their silence may be under threat or harm, or it may be politically strategic. Think of this. What would happen if the truth about 9-11 came out? How would the American public (and global citizenry) react? How would they feel about government, and especially big government? With the left living in fear of a global corporatocracy, the last thing they want is for the people to downsize or dismantle government, as there would then be nothing (in their minds) to stand in the way of a global corporate takeover. So, as bad and evil as government may be, the moment they write it off is the moment the left has lost its battle against its corporate nemesis. To tell the people the truth would ultimately lead to a reactionary shift toward militant isolationism and fascism, with a public no less gullible but more suspicious and worse, all the more ready to believe anything given the proper marketing.
3. The Bush administration would not have attempted 9-11 unless it knew that the silence of Bush's enemies, the left, could be guaranteed. Ironically, they did not appear to seek or get the same cooperation from the far right, including the nationalists, populists, militia, survivalist, libertarian true conservatives. So, why is it that the "idealistic, pacifist" left could so easily be bought and not the more ultranationalistic and militant right? This is a complex question with many complex answers, but the most important aspect might be that there was a trade-off, a quid-pro-quo with the left. While the left establishment is well aware of how the government really works, the far right after 9-11 is only now seeing their American fantasy fall apart. But why is it that the left has been in the loop but doesn't share these truths with its followers. Might the image of America held up by the left also be just a fantasy? If the government is revealed to not be of the people, but rather merely a tool by the super-rich, how would that impact the left political agenda. But, more to the point: How can the left point to 9-11 as evidence that the right is fascistic and evil (and the left is therefore the opposite), if the left also has a skeleton or two in its closet? It is clear that during WWII the highly effective US blockade of Japan was intended not to provoke surrender, as the US was not yet in the war. The US government was desperate to get into the war, but public sentiment was decidedly against, until Pearl Harbor. Might there be a deal that the right remains mum about Pearl Harbor and the left does likewise about 9-11? Both have American blood on their hands, and both would stand to lose the support of their followers.
4. The left does not attack 9-11 truth except thru ad hominem slander. This is not the way that the left tends to do anything; generally they have facts behind their slander, and usually most attacks are heavy on facts and light on slander. So the behavior surrounding 9-11 is very uncharacteristic. Similarly, the villains of the left gate-keeping community have staunch records of supporting human rights, civil liberties, openness and transparency in government. It is entirely impossible that all such commitments are charades. Rather, it appears that by attacking 9-11 Truth, they are protecting something very precious. But what is is? Their life, a family member, an agenda? We're all aware that the power elite who appear to have been behind 9-11 are also the same cadre pushing for a One World Government. My sense is this; the left realizes that free, sovereign nations run democratically is a wonderful fantasy, but is not the reality and has never been the reality. Given that the US we are taught about in school is not a viable option, what are the options? It would seem there are two: The Military Empire espoused by the Dark Lord Darth Cheney, and the Global Socialism sought by such heavies as Vermont's two senators: Bernie Sanders and Patrick Leahy. To contend, as many among our ranks do, that the socialist Jedi are on the same team as Cheney is about as unlikely as the official 9-11 fable being true. However, with Obama, it is appearing as though the elite are hoping to bring the two opposing factions together under some sort of fascist-socialist-militarist-internationalist composite. My hunch is that the left is willing to hold its nose while helping to build this New World Order, as a means of preventing the corporate fascists from running off with the entire ball of wax. But their anti-9-11 truth stance is one of pure strategy, and simply masks a more long-term, principled plan, I hope. Once the NWO is in place, the gloves come off and we'll see what kind of country/world we get. I gotta admit, even before 9-11, the US was not a good influence on the planet. Things have to change, and I'm hoping that the truthers and lefties will one day find themselves fighting on the same side. Incidentally, two of the Truth community's most high profile supporters, Daniel Ellsberg and Ray McGovern, are still much beloved by the left establishment. There is hope.
Dangerous conspiracy theories
by Peter Chamberlin, Online Journal, 5 August 2010
How could a bunch of “lone wolf” researchers be considered dangerous to the United States? The official explanation given is that we confuse those who hear or read what we have to say, undermining the national unity and trust in government which is necessary to wage war. That is as good an excuse as any to explain why the American people have not rallied around this war of terror. The national unity that politicians whine about was achieved only once in the beginning of this war, before the politicians and the corporations revealed the war for what it has always been -- a war to control oil and gas.
The great danger posed by conspiracy theorists is that we will finally wake the people up to the fact that we have been deceived, in order to trick us into allowing the armed forces of the United States to be used as a mercenary force, an army of conquest, to rob the people of Asia of their God-given natural resources. The danger of the “conspiracy theorist” is that he will awaken the people from their trance-like slumber which binds them, trapped somewhere between the waking world and the dream state. In this state, most of us meekly “support the troops” as they mercilessly clear the ground of resisters to the great conspiracy. The danger is that we will shock them and turn their thoughts toward this ugly reality of the waking world.
The “conspiracy theorist” is discredited because he or she dares to look for alternatives to the idiotic official excuses given for key events like the 911 and London subway bombings, or for historic, pivotal political assassinations. Researchers who dare to look beyond explanations which are obviously lies automatically become delegated to the lunatic fringe. With the Internet becoming the researchers’ primary source of information, it has became possible for national security organizations to control nearly all critical information, thus insuring that no one would find any hidden proof of the crimes of the past. This federal oversight meant that it became necessary for theorists to switch tactics and shift our focus from looking for evidence of government crimes in the past (which have had time to be covered-up), to rooting-out proof of ongoing crimes and criminal plans for the future. In today’s environment of massive social and political discontent, hard proof of either ongoing war crimes or of criminal conspiracies to commit future crimes, could very likely prove to be the spark that lights the “prairie fires” of a grass roots revolution. This is the real danger of uncontrolled research.
The sudden and widespread popular reactions to the WikiLeaks story which contains proof of US and NATO war crimes, demonstrates the potential powder keg to be tapped by the right torch bearer. Government leaders undoubtedly understood the great potential danger risked by allowing the release of the Wiki documents, but, being the practitioners of Nazi mind-science that they are, they fully understood the potential rewards to be reaped by the correct handling of the leaks and Western reporting on them. Popular emphasis upon the Pakistani angle of Wiki revelations could help create a national consensus for attacking Taliban bases in Pakistan.
The WikiLeaks were a document dump, intended to overwhelm researchers and to preoccupy they, studying the Empire’s past moves, in order to distract us from our new focus upon the present, looking towards the future. Look for the release of an even greater document dump from WikiLeaks in the near future, as they dump their Iraq files onto the Internet. Another effect of the Wiki document dump is that it has flooded search engines with countless new variations on the search for “American war crimes,” or info on important key battles or screw-ups, making it even more impossible to find information on Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, or anything covered in the leaks. This will muddy the waters for us even more and make it even less likely in the future that we will stumble across important evidence of ongoing criminal activity.
The nature of our conspiracy research is searching to find preventative answers, evidence to reveal overlooked evidence which could possibly preempt ongoing conspiracy plans. My focus for several years now has been to find preventive evidence of America’s true intentions in Pakistan. I have chosen Pakistan because I figured it to be the primary focus of the whole ongoing criminal American conspiracy (which involves many foreign co-conspirators), the critical component to the entire pipeline scheme. No matter how far into Central Asia the evidence has gone, it always relates back to Pakistan, certainly as the port for the pipeline plans, but also, just as important, to the thirty-year old scheme to create an army of “Islamists,” created to serve the Empire builders’ plans. Without Pakistan, none of the current plans for Empire would have even been possible.
For this unshakeable loyalty, if nothing else, we owe Pakistan a great debt. But Pakistan has gone far beyond mere loyalty in serving American interests, risking everything to serve as America’s secret sword. Pakistan risked its very existence in this capacity, standing alone on the lofty Himalayan peaks, toe-to-toe against the intimidating Soviet Union. They exposed their entire population to thermonuclear blackmail or potential elimination, to serve as the American stand-in for the historic confrontation which brought the Communist empire to its knees. Pakistan has given and risked so much for us that our leaders have decided to sacrifice the nation on the altar of self-aggrandizement. The greatest service we could do to them and to ourselves today would be to throw a monkey wrench into their plans for our Pakistani friends.
Sadly, the ongoing insidious criminal plans of the Empire extend far beyond Pakistan, reaching into every country on the earth, extending its tentacles like some great octopus, grasping to control every life within its reach. In the past, many researchers who got too close to the “Octopus” were eliminated, usually in an unconventional manner, usually in bizarre “suicides” . Now, our numbers have grown so great that it has altered the equation a bit, there are too many of us to kill today. The idea of using anti-Empire activists, such as myself, to help advance their plans and to agitate the public into a frenzy, has been a risky one. When the time comes to flip right-wing and left-wing activists towards the Empire’s preferred “consensus” there has always been a great inherent danger that the activists would not follow the trail of breadcrumbs leading us into new American police state.
That is the great weakness in the Empire’s plan -- by continually operating in a Hegelian manner (always manipulating both left and right, to force a consensus), every argument put forth by politicians or behaviorists, seeking to confine us within a narrow political spectrum, reaches a flipping point, where both synthesis and antithesis change direction, heading towards, instead of away from each other. It is at this flipping, or tipping point, where the original argument fizzles-out, losing its steam and forward momentum, and the threat we represent becomes the greatest. The greatest danger in allowing us to access inconvenient or incriminating evidence from the Internet comes just at the point of flipping. This is why the Internet has not yet been pulled out from under us.
This is why the WikiLeaks leaks are like a two-edged sword, they could just as easily cut the legs out from under us as they could undercut the criminal war for resources. Instead of following the game plan and jumping on the national bandwagon of a “patriotic” war on Pakistan, we must find the strength to muster our own groundswell of support by exposing the criminal intentions which have underwritten this war from the beginning, bringing the American people together to oppose the planned expansion of the war.
We are a threat if we start to come together. The ideas that bind us all here in the alternative media are exactly the sort of thinking that must be eliminated. The path to either victory or defeat for the anti-Empire side, just as it is for the bad guys, lies in changing the thinking of the people. The bad guys are intent on erasing the polluting ideas of freedom, liberation and individualism from the human lexicon, replacing all of these cherished concepts with ideas of hopelessness, terror and submission (SEE: Bombing Improper Thoughts). We must be just as committed to reinforcing visions of hope, fighting terror with truth and reason, building the fires of resistance within the besieged minds of our countrymen and our fellow man.
The greatest danger to the Empire is that you will refuse to lie down and submit. If enough people begin to feel this way, then the tide will turn towards freedom’s shore.
Remembering building 7
Homepage:
http://rememberbuilding7.org/10/
More .... STUFFINGS .......
24.10.2011 12:18
"We began by opening fire on protestors, killing ten of them to accuse the government of killing them… " Muhannad Fouad al-Assaf elaborated. ...........
-
D. Watson
Arabic dialect
24.10.2011 12:20
Libyans speak a dialect of Arabic called Sulaimitian Arabic which has a certain 'sing-song' quality to it and is recognizable to any Arabic speaker. What Israelis learn is close to the Khaliji dialect popular in the Gulf region and it is Khaliji that can be heard in this video supposedly being spoken by the Libyans. Already a number of people on Al Jazera have picked up on this but surprisingly they have not followed it up I assume under orders from the Abu Dhabi royal family who own the broadcaster.
Any native speaker of Arabic will tell you that the people in this video are not Libyans and are either from one of the Gulf states ( my guess is Bahrain) or from Israel.
MF-Al Khalid
Israeli army Type 21 combat boots
24.10.2011 12:27
It is impossible for anybody outside of the Israeli military to have got hold of this boot proving these are Israeli troops.
Boot Boy
Fake.
24.10.2011 12:43
Imposter.
I beleive this is the best example yet of how the narrative of Indymedia UK is 'being disturbed' by Indymedia's enemies.
Its a fine example also of how competent analysis is presented in deranged and conspiratorial form in order to undermine the efficiency and intelligence of our community. Not in any way surprising that comments from the 9/11 truth movement should appear here also.
You've blown it.
I'm going to go back over my other comments that I have posted over the past few days in order to figure out which of them has pressed this particular button.
I strongly suspect it might be this one.
Knot-Eyed Jaguar
I never thought it was true.
24.10.2011 12:47
A - Spend some time saying whereabouts are unknown
B - Wife flees to another country
C - Money found missing from central bank
D - President flees to home area
E - President found in hole in ground
F - Killed by people from his own country
G - Wife lives quiet rich life in neutral country with previously unrecognised 'helpers'
There are already a number of reasons to think that Saddam is alive and well living in Mauritania with his wife and youngest daughter under the protection of his old friend Mohamed Ould Abdel Aziz. It is likely that Qaddafi is in Zimbabwe living in a large town house within Harare's Gunninghill suburb where soldiers from his famous female bodyguard have been seen patrolling the grounds.
Not being fooled again
Interesting
24.10.2011 12:54
Is the fake Knot-Eyed Jaguar claiming the film is real ?
Is the fake Knot-Eyed Jaguar claiming those are not Israeli Army boots ?
Is the fake Knot-Eyed Jaguar claiming the Arabic spoken is with a Libyan accent ?
Is the fake Knot-Eyed Jaguar claiming that this is proof of Gaddafi's death ?
What motivation would the fake Knot-Eyed Jaguar have in trying to pretend this film is everything it claims to be ?
Knot-Eyed Jaguar
Language is wrong.
24.10.2011 13:11
I doubt these are Israelis but I do think they are from Bahrain who receive military equipment from the USA which would explain the boots.
The Arabic language site of aljazeera has covered this in a couple of broadcasts the last one was this morning see
Raised in Dubai, living in Luton
Many people in Zim already know the truth.
24.10.2011 13:21
On August 27th he was flown to Harare in a Zimbabwe Air Force Yakovlev Yak-40 which landed at the Suri Suri base near Chegutu. He is now guarded by units of the Zimbabwe National Army at a house called "Sunrise' that was once the home of a British diamond dealer.
The well trained and controlled western media of course ignore these facts preferring to let their readers think the 'we got him with our million pound jets' story.
Another reason we need Indymedia
lol, I wondered when the conspiracy theories would start!
24.10.2011 13:35
At the end of the day does it really matter though - he was a rich, powerful scumbag, just like our own leaders, so good riddance.
Anyway, he would have been worth more to the US/UK/Israel alive than dead, so it makes no sense that they would deliberately kill him. More likely some random person pissed off at friends or family being killed by the state forces got carried away and shot him.
anon
No grey hairs ?
24.10.2011 13:35
Also there is no mark on his chest from the heart surgery he had in 2003. Utter fake.
The barber of Seville
That's the point being made
24.10.2011 13:41
That is what is being said here. He is almost certainly still alive although where is another matter but this film is 100% fake and is being discussed in the Arab world all over the place. He outlived his usefulness to the West and when he started to set up his nutcase son as his replacement (too Islamic) Gaddafi was given his opportunity to get out with a few million in the bank. NATO then made sure it was seen to support the so called rebels ensuring they control the timeline of the revolution.
The much vaunted Transitional Council is no more than the same people who have been running the country alongside Gaddaffi for the past thirty years. They did a deal with NATO and they are now getting the pay off.
Steve
Plane spotter sites already reporting this
24.10.2011 13:59
It refueled in Chad and the DRC both times paying with a Zimbabwe Air Force credit card.
It landed in Harare in the early hours of Wednesday August 27th. On route it was also tracked by aircraft from Zambia who put up two MiG 21's as it passed through their air space without contacting air traffic control in Lusaka. Upon landing in Zimbabwe there was major motorcade waiting with a number of Arabic speakers among the waiting crowd.
Biggles
Further medical issues
24.10.2011 14:10
Not a doctor
Hmmmm...
24.10.2011 14:19
nobody
The Gadaffi escape
24.10.2011 14:34
There are some details
Dad is a plane spotter
Brotherhood of the snake
24.10.2011 14:35
that shows him using freemason hand gestures
satya
e-mail:
scottpattinson@gmail.com
Info re boots
24.10.2011 14:47
Although it is possible a US soldier might be wearing them, the idea that an Libyan soldier would be is ridiculous. The soldiers in this film are not Libyans.
Bok
Details of other Israeli faked films
24.10.2011 15:11
Having worked in Occupied Palestine none of this is new. The IDF has a long history of faking film and still shots to 'prove' a story. I never believed the Qaddafi story from the moment I heard it. A nice neat story where he turned out to be exactly where all the media were and the convenient bullet to the head before this poor patsy could be interviewed.
Qaddafi is alive and well and if he has any sense keeping his head down and enjoying his NATO funded retirement.
Israel TV news announced this week the government were hopeful of a "new relationship" with Libya.
Former ISM volunteer
Gun in film is CIA issue
24.10.2011 15:26
Mikail
Billy goats gruff
24.10.2011 15:36
You fail at attempting to undermine Indymedia, you fail vocationally for having a crap job, and you fail at life for being an unprincipled fool.
Gaddafi's dead. Every 'real' visitor to this site knows that. The issue that are important are the legality (or lack of) NATO intervention, the consequences for the Libyan people and their country, and the diplomatic and geostrategic fallout from such a brazen assault on a nation.
For an attempt at muddying the waters, it was risible and amateurish. Please give up the day job, and lay off the Johnnie Walker.
My name
Is Knot-Eyed Jaguar a full time troll ?
24.10.2011 15:44
"We are all waiting for the proof" of Bin-Laden's death and,
"There is no evidence at all that US military forces have come into contact with Osama Bin Laden"
and finally,
"The US President has claimed to have killed Osama Bin Laden but has failed to provide ANY evidence at all to support the claim"
Now we have him or her claiming that Gadaffi is not dead, the film is faked and that the old favorite the Jews (oops sorry) the Israeli's did it.
Indy media has a lot of trolls but it seems knot eyed jaguar is a one trick troll.
Troll catcher
Well said Billy Goat's Gruff
24.10.2011 15:49
Gadaffi is dead and there are questions to ask about what led up to that which is where our energies should be spent.
Knot Eyed Jaguar - FUCK OFF back to some 911 site where nutters like you spend their sad lonely empty lives.
IMC is full of trolls these days
Trolling ?
24.10.2011 15:53
Knot-Eyed Jaguar
Shocking brutality by the Nato-Al-Qaeda “freedom-fighters”
24.10.2011 15:56
The NTC forces include al Qaeda affiliated groups who have been trying to overthrow Gaddafi through armed uprisings (especially in eastern Libya) over the years. Ironically, the very west that claims to be fighting al Qaeda worldwide turned a convenient blind eye to the troubling inclusion of these extremist jihadi groups in the NTC ranks. One faction of these al Qaeda affiliates was held responsible for the murder of a Gaddafi regime senior general who defected to the rebels and was leading their military campaign. Yet to date, no one has been held accountable for this murder. Libya presents the picture of the pattern likely to be used by the west from now on to take out regimes that oppose its imperialist ambitions. The model is to use local dissident or rebellious forces on the ground, supported by the US and Nato’s overwhelming technological superiority in air power, missiles and other ‘remote’ weapons to help crush regimes that do not play ball with the west. US President Obama boasted after Gaddafi’s brutal end was confirmed that not one American life had been lost in the Libyan campaign. What he conveniently forgot to mention was the role of covert special forces attached to the NTC rebels that arguably helped and directed their relatively amateur military efforts. Obama’s triumphalism pulled whatever thin fig leaf was put up by Washington under the rubric ‘leading from behind’.
Like in any detective novel, the two critical questions to be asked are: motive, and beneficiary, to determine the villain of the piece. Libya’s oil and gas riches are what the US-led west has been slavering over for a very long time. Gaddafi’s support to anti-imperialist movements worldwide earned him more than a fair share of the ire of the powers that be in our (still) post-Cold War unipolar world. France and Britain, that led the anti-Gaddafi pack, are licking their lips over the lucrative ingress they have gained through bringing the NTC to power into Libya’s oil and gas. As in Iraq, energy sources and imperialist intervention have a symbiotic relationship.
It may be too close to these horrific events to judge Gaddafi’s place in history. However, a few tentative conclusions can be tendered even now. Colonel Gaddafi’s coup in 1969 that overthrew the decrepit monarchy and established a popular Arab nationalist regime openly declared its support of all anti-imperialist movements in the world. Sometimes, his uncompromising stances and criticism of other third world countries that betrayed their ostensible support to such movements because of ties to, and pressure from, the west, invited retaliation and even relative isolation for Gaddafi. He was however, undeterred for a very long time. It is only when the west was able to orchestrate a virtually total isolation of Libya because of the Lockerbie bombing and other incidents, that Gaddafi attempted to compromise with the west. He gave up his nuclear ambitions, support for already dwindling anti-imperialist movements, and tried to craft an acceptable modus vivendi with the western powers. However, if there is one lesson to be drawn from his fate, it is that empires have long memories and are totally ruthless in achieving their goals. Gaddafi joins a long list of the victims of the rapacious greed and domineering imperialist ambitions of the west that litters the history of the modern world. Rest in peace Colonel. *
Voice of free Libya, still fighting and defending the people
This is not the only faked death lie
24.10.2011 16:00
Saif al-Islam, is still in Libya. He is free and will go on with resistance, he claimed in an address to supporters aired by Syria’s Arrai TV Channel.
“We continue our resistance. I am in Libya, I am alive, free and intend to go to the very end and exact revenge,” ‘Russia’s RIA Novosti’ news agency quotes Saif al-Islam as saying on the Syrian Channel on Saturday night.
“I say go to hell, you and NATO behind you. This is our country, we live in it, we die in it and we are continuing the struggle,” Saif al-Islam said, according to Al-Arabiya news channel.
“I received a message from tribes in Bani Walid about a general consensus between them to respond to threats from the gangs of rats ─ the revolutionaries and the NATO alliance,” Saif al-Islam said.
Earlier contradictory reports suggested Saif al-Islam Gaddafi has been either killed or captured in the western Libyan town of Zliten and was in the hands of the country’s National Transitional Council.
Egypt’s Nile TV Channel reported on Thursday, October 20, that he had managed to flee Sirte and find shelter in the desert.
According to RIA Novosti, Saif al-Islam Gaddafi has already got the support of the tribes loyal to his father, who promised to fight against the current government. Some experts now suggest the Libyan conflict could now be prolonged and grow from a political into an interethnic struggle.
Thirty-nine-year-old Saif al-Islam is the second son of Muammar Gaddafi and carried out public relations and diplomatic roles for his father. Western-educated and the most-recognized Libyan official, he was often viewed as Colonel’s successor and a possible reformer.
Free Libya !
The al Qaeda & CIA Link
24.10.2011 16:04
Still we await the clear proof that Gaddafi is dead.
Knot-Eyed Jaguar
Whatever. You are blind
24.10.2011 16:07
>> 0.05 film shows different sandals as film is edited between two shots
Can't see any sandals at 0.05. Maybe the ones you see are on different people?
>> 0.07 claim is that Gaddafi is dead and yet now his eyes are moving and he is looking at camera
I don't think they mean he is dead at 0.07 lol!!!!!!!!! I think they are reporting he is dead and showing the footage. Gawd..... they don't mean at the exact milliseconds!!
>> 0.14 - shows bullet hole, low down on side of temple, later in film hole is high up near top of head
Can't see that.
>> 0.23 - soldier is wearing Israeli army Type 21 combat boots. Issued to Special Forces units.
Year, he is also carrying a gun which clearly makes him Israeli special forces. Idiot.
>> Resolution - the film is clearly recorded on two different resolutions and knitted together.
No it isn't
>> The colour of the sand varies between shots exposing the different locations.
No it doesn't!
>> The Arabic spoken by the soldiers is not representative of Northern African Arabic as spoken by Libyans instead is accented Jordanian Arabic as taught to Israeli soldiers.
No it isn't
>> The blood on Gaddafi's face is supposed to be fresh and yet it is already dried.
Who said it is "fresh"? Its the fucking desert, things dry quickly. He was holed up for ages after the bombing. Anyway, it looks fucking like wet blood to me
Is that footage of the Green Square still fake?
anon
Implosion of the troll.
24.10.2011 16:08
The real Knot-Eyed Jaguar.
I think the only people who believe this are Terrorists and pro-Gaddafi Loyalist
24.10.2011 16:11
Jeff
UN and NATO Enjoin in Multi-State Terrorism
24.10.2011 16:11
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
— Ephesians: 6:12
What a decade it has been for assassinations, liquidations, exterminations — for State terrorism led by the Land of the Free. Summary executions include Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. On 5th February 2003, General Colin Powell stated that he headed a deadly terrorist network within Iraq – just six weeks before the US headed a deadly terrorist network, in an illegal invasion, which entirely destroyed Iraq.
On 7th June 2006, at Hibhib, near Baquba, al-Zarqawi was killed by two five hundred-pound bombs, dropped by USAF F-16 jets, killing five others including his wife and child. Legality, trying in law those accused of wrong doing, is, seemingly, so yesterday.
President Saddam Hussein and some of his sovereign government were subject to a kangaroo Court, laughable had it not shamed and disgraced the word “legal” at every level.Then he was lynched.
Osama bin Laden’s alleged death, with still unaccounted for others, was another blot on legality and humanity, with his body seemingly summarily disposed of as shark food. Why observe religious and legal niceties when they may, in turn, preserve forensic, legal evidence?
Hilary Clinton and her partners in crime, were, of course, shown “watching” this gruesome slaying by illegal immigrants who had entered ally Pakistan without bothering to request permission for air space or passage. It then had to be admitted there was, in fact, no transmission from a video previously said to be screened from one of the assassins helmets. Hollywood meets Capitol Hill?
Subsequently this tasteless, part fictional scenario with Ms Clinton’s hand over her mouth, feigning personal “shock and awe” was, the gullible were informed, due to “an allergy.”
Her repellent performance on CBS shortly after Gaddafi’s death, assassination, execution, street dragging – early days for the exact sequence of another bloody illegality — was Madam Clinton for real. She near punched the air, roared with laughter and announced:
“We came, we saw, he died.”
“Did this have anything to do with your visit?” she was asked on 18th October.
“Nnn …” Then: “I’m sure it did.”
During her brief trip she had stated: “We hope he [Col Gaddafi] can be captured or killed soon …”
Arguably, not since Madeleine Albright, when US Ambassador to the United Nations (“… avowed to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war…”) stated that the deaths of half a million Iraqi children were: “A hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth it” (60 Minutes,12th May 1996) has such abhorrent, shaming filth been spewed over the air waves.
But then, the UN was the vehicle for the silent killing fields which were the strangulating thirteen year embargo on Iraq. the silence on thirteen years of illegal, unsanctioned bombing by the US/UK. Then this last March, they endorsed UNSCR 1973, which became the completely overt mass murders of Libyans in a seven month (and ongoing) “humanitarian” blitzkrieg.
In the UK, the newspapers did their best to vie with Clinton’s sewer rhetoric. Seldom has a bloody, illegal, apparent summary execution, assassination of a Head of State, been more tastelessly lauded.
“Bullet in the Head – That’s for Lockerbie” (The Sun.) Apart from their excursion to the literary drainage pipes, the Sun apparently neither attended the trial nor have registered the deep legal concerns surrounding the Lockerbie verdict. “End of a Tyrant” trumpeted The Independent, of whom a little more is expected. “Tyrant Showed no Mercy, Shot by Rebels”, celebrated The Mirror. “Gaddafi’s Death: Key Moments”; MSN was in trash movie mode.
“Death of a Tyrant”, is the choice of many, with The Star perhaps managing to plunge to an all time journalistic depth with “Mad Dog Put Down.”
NATO’s depraved allies in the “New Libya” are — in defiance of all decency , and of any religion, especially Islam — displaying his body, and that of his son Mutassim (37) naked to the waist, in freezers in a meat store in Misrata, inviting souvenir photographs.
It is a pitiless, shocking re-run of the display of the bodies of Saddam Hussein’s sons, Qusay and Uday, also summarily executed, rather than being treated in accordance with the law, as prisoners of war, along with Hussein’s fifteen year old grandson, courtesy US troops in Mosul, northern Iraq.
Islam is specific as to rituals for the deceased: “After the soul leaves the body, eyes must be closed” (Colonel Gaddafi’s were not for considerable time, according to pictures). “When the soul is taken, the eyesight follows.” The washing must follow specific procedure and then body fully covered, including the head and face. Necrophilic tourism is not an option — and bodes a sinister future if indicative of the values of those now seemingly holding power, legally or otherwise.
There may be worse to come. Seizing the illegal precedent which has been set by the disposal of Osama bin Laden’s bullet ridden remains, by the body snatching killers in Afghanistan, there is talk of burying Libya’s Head of State at sea. As bin Laden, it would get rid of the evidence. Dead men don’t talk of past deals, commitments, betrayals – and disappeared ones leave no forensic evidence of seemingly a murderering mob of NATO-facilitated thugs.
Will pressure for the body to be handed over to his tribe tempt another disgraceful act? That Tribe has issued this statement:
We call on the UN, the Organisation of the Islamic Conference and Amnesty International, to force the [National] Transitional Council to hand over the martyrs’ bodies to our tribe in Sirte and to allow them to perform their burial ceremony in accordance with Islamic customs and rules.
Further pressure is building from the UN Human Rights Council, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Christof Heyns, the UN Special Rapporteur, is adament:
“The Geneva conventions are very clear that when prisoners are taken they may not be executed willfully and if that was the case then we are dealing with a war crime, something that should be tried”, he told Al Jazeera. (21st October 2011)
One eye witness allegations of Colonel Gaddafi’s death hardly seems to meet with Geneva Convention criteria:
… he was being beaten, kicked, with rifle butts, boots. He looked confused … he was saying ‘help me, help me’, but his voice was really strained, he was croaking. A few of us were around him, we thought we should get him somewhere we could question him about the others. But he was then taken away in a wave of people and then there were shots.
There are more similarities between Iraq and Libya. Two leaders who took over countries crippled by colonialism and turned them into thriving, largely well developed nations, with high quality free health care, education, living standards.
In threatened crisis, US Presidents and their Administrations cower in hidden bunkers deep in mountains, British Prime Ministers and their Cabinet, and ranking officials, are not renowned as front line operators either. Indeed, the speed with which the British and American Ambassadors and their staff left Libya at the first sign of trouble was pathetic – and nationally humiliating.
Both Saddam and his sons said they would never leave their country and would die there. They did. Colonel Gaddafi did the same. Saddam faced out “Shock and Awe”; Gaddafi, 26,000 NATO sorties and over 9,600 strike missions in seven months, 68 strikes, seemingly, round Sirte on the day he was killed near there. Whatever their failings, their courage was towering.
Saddam lost his sons and grandchild and never saw his surviving family before he died. Gaddafi lost three grandchildren and three sons, and a fourth died with him. After the deaths, the Western media sneered because he failed to appear on the air waves for a few days.
However, the rats are crawling back on to the deck of the remains of the ship. On 21st October, Britain’s replacement Defence Minister – his predecessor got in to a little local difficulty – Phillip Hammond, announced that the UK had presented a license to drill for oil request to the National Transitional Council, far less than twenty four hours after the announcement of Gaddafi’s death.
Further:
Libya is a relatively wealthy country with oil reserves, and I expect there will be opportunities for British and other companies to get involved in the reconstruction of Libya.
I would expect British companies, even British sales directors, (to be) packing their suitcases and looking to get out to Libya and take part in the reconstruction of that country as soon as they can”, he said. (Independent, 22nd October 2011.)
When the US Ambassador, Gene Cretz, ran the Stars and Stripes up over the American Embassy in Tripoli, at its re-opening ceremony on 22nd September, he remarked: “We know that oil is the jewel in the crown of Libya’s natural resources.”
There have been many reports of Predator drones over Libya these last seven months. Seems there may be even more predators on the ground.
On Sunday 23rd October, 2011, the non-elected insurgents (sorry, National Transitional Council) are to declare Libya’s “liberation.”
The day marks the centenary of an Italian pilot becoming the first to use aircraft in war, taking off from Libya to observe Turkish troops in the Turko-Italian war on 23rd October 1911.
Ironically it also marks the first meeting of the UN General Assembly — 23rd October 1946 — a body which has strayed so far from its fine, stated aspirations.
*****
UPDATE: As I finish this, it is being announced that Colonel Gaddafi’s body will be returned to his family for burial. It is indeed, if disgustingly belatedly so, incumbent upon the “authorities” to do so. We will see.
Felicity Arbuthnot is a journalist with special knowledge of Iraq. Author, with Nikki van der Gaag, of Baghdad in the Great City series for World Almanac books, she has also been Senior Researcher for two Award winning documentaries on Iraq, John Pilger's Paying the Price: Killing the Children of Iraq and Denis Halliday Returns for RTE (Ireland.) Read other articles by Felicity.
by Felicity Arbuthnot / October 23rd, 2011
Implosion of the troll
24.10.2011 16:13
Knot-Eyed Jaguar
I think the only people who believe this are Terrorists and pro-Gaddafi Loyalist
24.10.2011 16:18
Will L
Imploded.
24.10.2011 16:25
Indy media has a lot of trolls but it seems knot eyed jaguar is a one trick troll."
And there we have it. Writ large for all the world to see.
The real Knot-Eyed Jaguar.
Troll caught
24.10.2011 16:28
He (it's bound to be a he) thinks that Bin Laden isn't dead, that Julian Assange is the key to the US Republican Party winning the next election, that the SWP are secretly Pro War and now that Gadaffi is really alive and well and the video of his death was faked by the Israelis.
Jog on Troll.
Troll catching Tim
@One eyed nonsense
24.10.2011 16:29
>>
The most likely explanation is that someone sat down at a keyboard and typed some words and posted it onto the blog.
>> Still we await the clear proof that Gaddafi is dead.
No we don't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1. We've seen him dead.
2. No one is disputing it
3. Gadaffi hasn't popped up on the airwaves and said "I'm alive!"
loser
@ Will L
24.10.2011 16:35
Putting to one side for a moment Knot Eyed Jaguar's motivation, I think it's money as well, why do you think that a certain part of the activist world is so quick and keen to believe this sort of nonsense ?
I have met people who it seems just so want to think that 911 was an inside job there is nothing that can be said to dissuade them and during a recent meeting I heard a young intelligent student say he would never believe that Bin Laden had been killed by the Americans. Never is a very strong word and it seemed this young man could be presented with just about any evidence whatsoever and nothing could persuade him.
Why on earth are some people prepared to listen to nutters like Knot Eyed Jaguar but not researched, proven evidence that lists real facts ?
Marco
e-mail:
marco@yahoo.com
Still we await the clear proof that Gaddafi is dead.
24.10.2011 16:38
The real Knot-Eyed Jaguar
You lose
24.10.2011 16:43
Can't see any sandals at 0.05. Maybe the ones you see are on different people?
+++ They are clearly different, you are a liar
>> 0.07 claim is that Gaddafi is dead and yet now his eyes are moving and he is looking at camera
I don't think they mean he is dead at 0.07 lol!!!!!!!!! I think they are reporting he is dead and showing the footage. Gawd..... they don't mean at the exact milliseconds!!
+++ Listen to the commentary, they are saying he was already dead at this point
>> 0.14 - shows bullet hole, low down on side of temple, later in film hole is high up near top of head
Can't see that.
+++ It's clearly there
>> 0.23 - soldier is wearing Israeli army Type 21 combat boots. Issued to Special Forces units.
Year, he is also carrying a gun which clearly makes him Israeli special forces. Idiot.
+++ Only Israeli Special Forces wear this type of boot. Next
>> Resolution - the film is clearly recorded on two different resolutions and knitted together.
No it isn't
+++ It clearly is but I will assume you know nothing of film production
>> The colour of the sand varies between shots exposing the different locations.
No it doesn't!
+++ Look again it is very obvious
>> The Arabic spoken by the soldiers is not representative of Northern African Arabic as spoken by Libyans instead is accented Jordanian Arabic as taught to Israeli soldiers.
No it isn't
+++ Do you speak Arabic, this is all over Al Jazeera, do they not speak Arabic either ?
>> The blood on Gaddafi's face is supposed to be fresh and yet it is already dried.
Who said it is "fresh"? Its the fucking desert, things dry quickly. He was holed up for ages after the bombing. Anyway, it looks fucking like wet blood to me
+++ So he was shot two minutes ago and the blood dried straight away did it ?
Knot-Eyed Jaguar
For 'loser'
24.10.2011 16:49
Sounds like someone who did more than just write some words on a blog doesn't it ?
Knot-Eyed Jaguar
Troll loses.
24.10.2011 17:08
What he has done is said that the class war politic espoused by anarchists on this site, was responsible for the creation of the middle class.
That has clearly got the backs of the anarchists up.
Thread dead.
Anonymous.
Gadaffi worth more alive than dead
24.10.2011 17:18
I still stand by the statement that he is worth more alive than dead, but that is only if he is publicly alive and paraded in front of a court. I can't think of any reason why they would keep him secretly alive.
Gah, why am I even wasting my time on this conspiracy theory nonsense - is it just cops posting this bullshit to keep us chattering about nothing so we forget about the real issues?
anon
Thread dead.
24.10.2011 17:34
The whole article and comments which follow is to keep somebody in line. Nothing else.
Somebody just got slapped.
anon.
Course you did
24.10.2011 18:31
Liar
Knot-Eyed Jaguar
Cops don't care that much about you
24.10.2011 18:35
You really think the cops give a toss about Indy and some nutter like Knit Eyed Jaguar who thinks that Gaddafi is till alive or that Bin Laden was not shot by the Americans ? It may shatter your frail ego but the cops have bigger issues to worry about.
Get over yourself
Reality
24.10.2011 18:38
Knot Eyed Jaguar is a conspiraloon
You're a fantasist
An Anarchist
Tiresome troll.
24.10.2011 18:51
Knot-Eyed Jaguar is a close personal friend of mine. I know him from the days of RTS.
He is a trusted and respected soul with one of the largest contact networks in the UK. He has been active in Mexico, Germany, Italy, Russia, Australia, Canada, the US and the UK.
He is a clever bugger too.
He is a well respected veteran as trusted now as he has always been.
So keep going troll. Keep going.
Anonymous.
trolls are evil.
24.10.2011 18:58
The idiot that posted this artuicle is probabaly much like these people.
Doubt its KEJ. I know him too.
Marcos.
Troll carcrash
24.10.2011 19:20
yeah, like pretending to be people they are not.
face it troll, you just died a death.
FAIL.
Pete L
May be true
24.10.2011 19:32
He is a trusted and respected soul with one of the largest contact networks in the UK. He has been active in Mexico, Germany, Italy, Russia, Australia, Canada, the US and the UK. "
This may be true, it may not. Frankly I don't care. What is clear and documented is that Knot eyed jaguar thinks Bin Laden is still alive and that Gadaffi is still alive. He doesn't sound that cleaver to me.
Indy is full of trolls, 911 nutters and conspraicey loons, clearly KEJ is one of these
He's still a nutter if he thinks Gadaffi is alive
Mapping the trolls.
24.10.2011 19:36
So now the troll has got bored with this and moved on these are the comments that are false and were not posted by me.
1. The original article called "Gaddafi death, the lie is beginning to unravel"
2. Comment "Interesting":
"I see that our Troll has decided the way to try and discredit my post is by pretending to be me and claiming I did not write the post. I wonder why somebody would try to smear me and not deal with the points made in my post and the subsequent ones from other posters.
Is the fake Knot-Eyed Jaguar claiming the film is real ?
Is the fake Knot-Eyed Jaguar claiming those are not Israeli Army boots ?
Is the fake Knot-Eyed Jaguar claiming the Arabic spoken is with a Libyan accent ?
Is the fake Knot-Eyed Jaguar claiming that this is proof of Gaddafi's death ?
What motivation would the fake Knot-Eyed Jaguar have in trying to pretend this film is everything it claims to be ?"
3. Comment "Trolling ?"
"Explain this
4. Comment "The al Qaeda & CIA Link"
"News today that a US Army commander has already warned of a "rise in al Qaeda activity within Libya". How very convenient for everybody.
Still we await the clear proof that Gaddafi is dead."
5. Comment "Implosion of the troll"
"Are you ?"
6. Comment "Still we await the clear proof that Gaddafi is dead."
"Wait for the evidence that the Americans obviously have proving beyond all doubt that it was Gadaffi that died"
7. Comment "You lose"
">> 0.05 film shows different sandals as film is edited between two shots
Can't see any sandals at 0.05. Maybe the ones you see are on different people?
+++ They are clearly different, you are a liar
>> 0.07 claim is that Gaddafi is dead and yet now his eyes are moving and he is looking at camera
I don't think they mean he is dead at 0.07 lol!!!!!!!!! I think they are reporting he is dead and showing the footage. Gawd..... they don't mean at the exact milliseconds!!
+++ Listen to the commentary, they are saying he was already dead at this point
>> 0.14 - shows bullet hole, low down on side of temple, later in film hole is high up near top of head
Can't see that.
+++ It's clearly there
>> 0.23 - soldier is wearing Israeli army Type 21 combat boots. Issued to Special Forces units.
Year, he is also carrying a gun which clearly makes him Israeli special forces. Idiot.
+++ Only Israeli Special Forces wear this type of boot. Next
>> Resolution - the film is clearly recorded on two different resolutions and knitted together.
No it isn't
+++ It clearly is but I will assume you know nothing of film production
>> The colour of the sand varies between shots exposing the different locations.
No it doesn't!
+++ Look again it is very obvious
>> The Arabic spoken by the soldiers is not representative of Northern African Arabic as spoken by Libyans instead is accented Jordanian Arabic as taught to Israeli soldiers.
No it isn't
+++ Do you speak Arabic, this is all over Al Jazeera, do they not speak Arabic either ?
>> The blood on Gaddafi's face is supposed to be fresh and yet it is already dried.
Who said it is "fresh"? Its the fucking desert, things dry quickly. He was holed up for ages after the bombing. Anyway, it looks fucking like wet blood to me
+++ So he was shot two minutes ago and the blood dried straight away did it ? "
8. Comment "For 'loser'"
"Steve Lendman is a respected journalist who received a Harvard BA in 1956 and a Wharton MBA in 1960. After six years as a marketing research analyst, became part of a new small family business in 1967, remaining there until retiring in 1999. He has since devoted his time to progressive causes, extensive reading, and since summer 2005 writing on vital world and national topics, including war and peace, American imperialism, corporate dominance, political persecutions, and a range of other social, economic and political issues. In early 2007 he began regular radio hosting, now The Progressive Radio News Hour on The Progressive Radio Network.
Sounds like someone who did more than just write some words on a blog doesn't it ? "
9. Comment "Course you did"
"I just phoned the guy who posts under the name Knot-Eyed Jaguar"
Liar"
Knot-Eyed Jaguar (the real one)
Troll in flames
24.10.2011 19:41
But he doesn't think that because he never posted it.
You posted it using his name.
FAILURE!!!
Colin.
Give it up, for christs sake!
24.10.2011 19:44
FAIL.
Pete L
KEJ wedge
25.10.2011 00:02
Angie
For fox sake
25.10.2011 00:06
Fail, go back to St Andrews Uni and occupy the library, you could even chastise people for being poor and not middle class enough to understand left wing
Knitted Jaguar
To Anonymous
25.10.2011 02:00
I was involved then in RTS too, and I know for a fact there were a fair amount of people with both mental health and lack of social skills issues knocking around then, I reckon he must be one of those, cos the stuff he posts here is just from cloud cuckoo land.
Ex-RTS
Got ya.
25.10.2011 03:33
Got ya
Its the CST (Community Security Trust)
Israeli foreign intelligence 'station' based in London working with UK SIS.
Next time numb-nut, don't post when theres no traffic on the site. You can be seen.
ISM Night-shift.
Unbelievable
25.10.2011 06:31
Somebody else
Overnight update
25.10.2011 11:29
Last night I spoke with a friend in Milan who has information concerning the transfer of gold between Chad and Zimbabwe. Some Gadaffi mercenaries with links to the Democratic Revolutionary Council (CDR) militia arranged the transfer as payment for his escape. The gold was moved via an Ilyushin Il-76 that flew directly to Zimbabwe after collecting the gold at Zougra Airport.
My information is that Hannibal Muammar Gaddafi was also on the flight together with Abdullah Senussi the former Internal Security chief.
Knot-Eyed Jaguar
FAIL
25.10.2011 16:51
25.10.2011 11:29
Last night I spoke with a friend in Milan who has information concerning the transfer of gold between Chad and Zimbabwe. Some Gadaffi mercenaries with links to the Democratic Revolutionary Council (CDR) militia arranged the transfer as payment for his escape. The gold was moved via an Ilyushin Il-76 that flew directly to Zimbabwe after collecting the gold at Zougra Airport.
My information is that Hannibal Muammar Gaddafi was also on the flight together with Abdullah Senussi the former Internal Security chief.
Knot-Eyed Jaguar"
FAIL
Me
Hide 34 hidden comments or hide all comments