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Indymedia Reporting At Smash EDO's Remember Gaza Mass Demo

15.01.2010 18:15 | Smash EDO | Anti-militarism | Iraq | Palestine | South Coast

On Monday 18th January, the first anniversry of the final day of the Israeli massacre in Gaza, Smash EDO are holding a mass demonstration in Brighton against arms manufacturer EDO/ITT. Indymedia will be running an up to the minute timeline of events for the day.

Be the Media:Phone or text in your reports from the demonstration to Indymedia Dispatch on 07943685168 (from Monday morning).


Arrests - So far we know of four people who have definitely been arrested. Three have been released on police bail until March. Those who live in Brighton have been given bail conditions restricting protest at EDO/ITT, non-Brightonians have been bailed away from Brighton. It seems that the police have been deliberately targeting action medics.

Update on the Squat raid - Reports have come in that the police who raided the squat last night were armed with tasers and at least one gun. The person who was arrested has been released without charge.

If you were affected by police tactics on the demo call Emotional Support on 07985211033

19.26 - There have been four or five arrests in total. Several for breach of section 14 and one for threatening behaviour. Legal support are outside the police station waiting...

Smash EDO Press Release for the Demo

17.59 - There are reports of one more arrest in the North Lanes. If you witnessed an arrest or need support call legal support on 07805125940.

17.43 - Police have snatched two people, including an action medic, out of the cordon on North Rd.

17.42 - People have attempted to reach Barclays on North St. Some people made it.

16.17 - The demo is now marching alongside St Peter's Church toward the Old Steine. People are beginning to disperse.

16.10 - The demo has reached the Level and is crossing it.

16.10 - A crowd of about 300 has reached the junction between Lewes Road and Elm Grove. The police are attempting to prevent them from going further. A kettle may be forming.

16.00 - Reports are coming in that EDO/ITT has closed for the day

15.52 - The demo is now moving again, with the police in front, toward Brighton on the Lewes Road. There are about 150 people in the main section. No arrests so far

15.46 - One person has been hit with a police baton

15.45 - Cops now blocking Lewes Road at Comet. Some people are corralled in the car park of Brighton university. Lines of riot police in front of lines of riot vans are at the front of the demo.

Click here to view the rest of the timeline

Information for Action:Spot of bother with the Old Bill? We recommend Kelly's Solicitors – (01273) 674898 –**Witnessed an arrest or need advice? Legal Support – 07805125940** Need somewhere to crash? Accommodation – 07805125965**

Links:Smash EDO's Remember Gaza webpage|Directions to the Demo Meeting Point|Some notes on masking up|Smash EDO on Dissident Island Radio|SchNEWS - Wild at Heart


15.37 - The front of the march is now at BandQ on Lewes Road. Police have effectively shut down Lewes Road. The police tried to stop protesters by Brighton university but were outflanked as people "fought their way down the road". The march is continuing towards town and people from the second bloc are joining it in dribs and drabs.

15.34 - Police units KB 3B, KB4A, KB4B, KB4C in several vans are racing after the bloc that has moved off into town on the wrong side of the road. Some of the activists from the second bloc, which went into the park,

15.29 - Original demo, which stayed at the bottom of Home Farm Road, is now marching into town along Lewes Road

15.28 - Lots of sirens going off at the bottom of Home Farm Road

14.56 - One of the fences close to the rear of EDO has been breached. Police have responded violently.

14.55 - There are around eighty people at the original demonstration at the bottom of home farm road with coffins, banners and sound systems.

14.50 - Protesters seem to have breached a fence at the back of the industrial estate and have dropped onto a roof

14.43 - Reports in that a stand off is still going on with police on horseback at the rear of the factory

14.39 - The majority of people in the woods have been dispersed from the back of EDO by police with dogs and mounted police. They are now in the park above EDO.

Anti-Militarist actions elsewhere... Kernow Action Now are holding a demonstration today outside Barclays in Falmouth calling on Barclays to cease providing market maker services to ITT (click here for more info on Smash EDO's Target Barclays campaign). Barclays in Hastings have also been picketed. In Nottingham today activists from the Shut Down Heckler and Koch campaign are holding a street theatre event in market square.

14.35 - The bloc in the woods has reached the rear of EDO/ITT, police are attempting to form lines in the woods and encircle protesters to escort them out of the woods, however not succeeding yet.

14.30 - From The Argus 'Liveblog' - Many of the protesters have crossed open land behind the factory at the southern end of Wild Park where police officers and horses stand at the rear of the factory. Having gathered behind the factory on the open land, the police line opened to allow protesters down a footpath along the back fence of the industrial estate. There's now a stand off with police blocking their progress along the footpath. The protesters are now attempting to climb along a steep bank between the Forfars factory compound and the railway line but police are not allowing the protesters through.

14.09 - Around 200 people have split off from the main demo, pushed through police lines, and are now heading uphill into the woods... police are dithering.

14.04 - The funeral procession has reached the bottom of Home Farm Road

14.03 - From The Argus 'Liveblog' - The march has moved off towards Lewes Road. Behind banners saying "Blood on your hands" featuring red handprints and "Remember Gaza" the protesters are shouting "Smash, smash, smash EDO". The protesters are about to reach the Lewes Road and a small line of police officers is forming with officers on horseback ahead of the march.

13.58 - Police have informed local businesses that they will close Home Farm Road today and it will be closed until 6pm. EDO's switchboard is closed for the day. The officer in charge of the operation is Inspector Cundert. Police have claimed to The Argus that today's demo is being handled by Brighton public order coppers, not other forces...

13.57 - Numbers have risen to 300 people

13.50 - The demonstration is now moving off from the Wild Park Cafe

13.40 - A short speech is being read over the megaphone about Israel's 22 day massacre in Gaza and EDO's complicity

13.35 - Estimates are now 200-250 people all masked up and in black at the meeting point. The police have only one camera person. Large notices have been erected at the bottom of Home Farm Road. One person is dressed in a top hat and theatrical funeral garb.

13.33 - A large black clad crowd is still gathering at the Wild Park Cafe

13.20 - The Argus is running an online poll on whether Smash EDO's demonstrations should be banned or not here

13.10 - There are lots of police - half a dozen bikes, four cars and half a dozen vans on Home Farm Road. There are two cages built with Hares fencing 100 metres up the road on either side. Signs have been placed on the fencing.

There are three police vans situated between Home Farm Road and the Wild Park Cafe

13.06 - The police Gold Command is standing at a vantage point in the Wild Park opposite the cafe with four police horses... More people are arriving all the time

13.06 - There are three coffins and banners saying Remember Gaza, ready for the funeral march, at the Wild Park Cafe. A sound system is (predictably) playing Rage Against the Machine

13.03 - 150 people have assembled already - police are giving out a section 14 order but no one is taking it.

12.45 - People have begun to arrive at Home Farm Road

11am - Four cops currently at Brighton station

Reports of police spotters at the junction of Trafalgar Street and London Road

10am - there are two FIT officers at the back of the Cowley Club in Providence Place

18/01/10 - The Brighton Argus website shows barriers erected at the bottom of Home Farm Road (where the factory is situated)

01:40 - Police kick the door of a local squat down and enter on the pretext that they are investigating a "burglary". Eleven people confined to one room until 7am. Police request details and arrest one person for not supplying them with a name. In the morning a letter was hand delivered to the police saying that the council planned to seek a possession order but haven't done so yet. The squat has not been evicted but there are police outside and the front door is broken. Residents say the raid was clearly linked to the Remember Gaza demo as participants in the demo were staying there.

18/01/10 - First anniversary of the final day of Israel's massacre in Gaza

17/01/10 - 17.30 - Officers from the FIT team are outside the Cowley club taking notes on people going in, no cameras though. One activist has been harassed by the FIT

17/01/10 - 17.00 - People have started arriving for the Smash EDO Remember Gaza Action


Squat Raid - the arrestee's summary

21.01.2010 02:09

The police officer who raided the squat wearing a pistol
The police officer who raided the squat wearing a pistol

Hi, just a quick note to say I was the person arrested at the College Terrace squat in the early hours of the morning before the EDO MBM demonstration on Monday.

Here's a quick summary:

Police smashed their way into the squatted premises at around 02.00 hours, without any advance warning, and corralled and detained the tenants in an upstairs bedroom.
The initial fear was that the premises were being attacked by Nazi thugs, because those of us in the front room at the commencement of the raid only saw two men in black, one with short-cropped hair (and later found to be armed with a pistol), the other completely bald, battering their way in.

Once they gained entry, a senior female police officer claimed they were pursuing a 'man in a grey tracksuit' that was a suspect in a burglary, which they were convinced had been seen entering the squat. They claimed a police dog had traced the suspect's scent.
When we suggested they bring the dog in to sniff us and see if the burglar was among the 12 people corralled in the bedroom, the officer went back downstairs, and took the dog away instead.

Two hours later, at around 04.00 hours, the police still guarding us suddenly suggested that if we supplied our identity, they would leave us in peace. When most of us refused, because legally we didn't have to, they stated that we were now under suspicion of 'abstracting' (thieving) electricity, and were therefore obliged to give our details or face arrest.

As someone who didn't live in the house, had never been there before, indeed didn't even know the names of the tenants, I still asserted I had no legal obligation to provide my ID, and wished to go home.
I was duly arrested and taken to Hollingbury Police Station.

There my identity and the fact I lived 50 kilometres from the squat was proved, but regardless, I was immediately locked up. I was refused my statutory right to make a phone call.
I believe I was imprisoned because they realised I was a photographer and probably in town to photograph the EDO protest rally, and therefore I should be prevented from publicising it.

Meantime the other tenants were kept in the upstairs room for a further six hours, until a representative from the electricity company came in the morning. Police remained on the premises for several hours thereafter.

Twelve hours later (when the EDO demo was finishing across town) I was finally released from Hollingbury cells without charge, after being interviewed about my so-called 'abstraction' of electricity (eg: "Did you plug in your mobile phone or charge your camera while you visited the squat?").
My Swiss Army Knife was confiscated as an 'offensive weapon'.

Beyond being prevented from photographing the EDO protest, I can see no other legal or logical reason for my having been detained for so long.



Hide the following 25 comments

Reactionary Argus...

18.01.2010 14:46

= Sigh =

Last year the same thing happened. Readers of the local rag from a supposedly liberal "city of peace" have nothing to do but sit in their comfy armchairs and spout middle-class reactionary drivel about "not causing a disruption", and wheeling out novel insults that imply the group are idle, unwashed, &c. In how many more ways can protest groups reveal the mass slaughter the British Establishment are quietly supporting before the pampered classes develop some sympathy for the dispossed and some anger for victims of injustice?

Indeed, where are the local liberals, libertarians, anarchists and socialists in the comments thread?

(Would comment myself, but not sure I want to sign up. Coverage in previous years gave some clues as to whose side they were on.)



18.01.2010 16:54

Reports of photographer being injured by a dart thrown by protestor


fuck em

18.01.2010 19:36

we have indymedia,'they' have argus - i know which i prefer, enjoy and trust..............x well done to all those that turned up and well done to smash edo. very well fucking done!! more of the same around the UK would be ideal,


In a quandary

18.01.2010 22:10

Look, I'm a Brightonian born and bred, and I DO SUPPORT the cause,

I agree with comments below about the local paper etc, however you could have left the protest at the factory. Why come into Brighton and piss us off. It's not our fault. It must be said I witnessed some extremely crap behaviour from some of the crowd this afternoon from my bedroom window.

Please, please, keep the protestsing targetted at the culprits.

best wishes


soory dave

19.01.2010 10:36

but if you support the cause then you should probably support the tactics and the approach and the manner in which the struggle is being undertaken, or come up with a better, more beneficial idea. it is the police that cause most of the trouble, which you would know if you went on the demo's and saw for yourself. people cant pepper spray themselves...
if smash edo dont go in to brighton and hove to spread the message and the actions, then nothing will get done. pressure on the town, the council and the residents will bring pressure on edo/itt.
we, those involved in various anti-militarist struggles, wouldn't 'bring trouble' if arms dealers weren't operating in our towns and cities.
with all respect, who's really to blame??


is SmashEDO working?

19.01.2010 18:41

while i respect the motivation and agree with the aim of Smash Edo, the question needs to be asked, are the strategy and tactics working??

EDO continues its evil work entirely unaffected and the SmashEDO demos are tiny and additionally extremely alienating to the majority of people. SmashEDO has been very successful in raising the issue of EDO but has only created a very small, while yes very militant campaign. It has not looked imho at what is actually needed to shut down a company such as this, a broad based mass movement in the area, and indeed it's childish 'smash' name gives away the game really.

SmashEDO is typical imho of the activist mentality that seems to think that by protesting the loudest and the most militantly that somehow you will cause change. But how? There is in this no understanding of power imho. The capitalist state is not threatenned by nor does it listen to Black Bloc!!

The capitalist state is only threatened by mass movements. Good change has never happening from people shouting loudly but by building mass movements where we live and work.

Jon (above) asks "In how many more ways can protest groups reveal the mass slaughter .." Jon, people know about the issues, remember the massive Iraq march, but believe they can do little. The issue is surely how to build mass movements with the power to shut down EDO. Smash EDO does not imho have the strategy and tactics to do that.

Fran ( above) asks Dave to " ..come up with a better, more beneficial idea" and again surely the way to shut down anything is to build a mass movement? Tiny campaigns rarely rarely succeed. Power is the only thing that matters and Smash EDO has no power, no numbers, no community behind it.

It seems to me people need to concentrate on the issues the person below outlines and when we have a mass movement then we can take action that will win, against the scum corporations like this.

I have copied two good letters from the Argus, below, one in support and one against.

The first expresses the opinion of I suspect most working class people in Brighton ( and no i did not write it)

StrangerPassingBy, says... 7:33pm Mon 18 Jan 10

" What the comedy right-wing trolls who bang on with their usual ' get-a-job soap 'n' work dodger guff on this site don't understand is that Smash EDO is a cult, its full of Trustafarians who don't need to work anyway. Its run by a few 'Aceface' Cowley Egos and is a single issue campaign who wouldn't bat an eye lid for more local issues such as pensioners freezing to death in the cold snap because they can't afford the heating bills.

Its emphasis on the middle east and Gaza means it attracts the attention of our friends from the Jihad community as well as an alarming number of Jew-baiters and out-and-out Nazis posing as Anarchists.MI5 are no doubt over all them like a rash. Whilst failing in its objectives of closing the factory What SmashEdo has achieved is to help turn Brighton into a mini police state that gives the cops from 3 counties some overtime when the Labour party circus leaves Town.

As for the 'rent-a-mob' cliche, yes there are many people who turn up to protest and complain about things that are nothing to do with SmashEdoCult I will offer some examples of things that makes people angry, you may feel free to add your own;

Pensioners freezing to death because they can't pay the fuel bills. Govt bail out of banks, bankers bonuses, and cut backs on public spending. MPs expenses. Redundancies and home repo's. High rents and empty properties. Businesses going bust and council tax going through the roof. No jobs and overpopulation Etc Etc Etc

By focusing the anger abroad on Israel and Gaza SmershEgo makes sure these issues are ignored.They must be all Government Spies!"

Brunswicker, Hove says 5:10pm Tue 19 Jan 10

"Well done Smash EDO for protesting yesterday and bringing to Brighton's attention that component parts made in Brighton helped to kill innocent people.

I fully support their aims and the relative tiny cost of policing and a couple of hours minor disruption are nothing if equated to the horrors of what these components enable bombs do.

I want this odious arms company driven out of Brighton - out of MY town - just as ANY right minded person who cares to research the facts properly would.

And once they were out of Brighton, I would help campaign to keep them out of Sussex, and then the UK.

Make no mistake, to approve of this company trading on your doorstep means you have the blood of innocent dead children and adults on your hands. While Gaza may seem far away we all have a collective responsibility to do all we can to stop mindless violence.

Do I have a job? Yes. Do I pay tax? Yes. Do I wash? (It is none of your business but) Yes. Do I live Locally? Yes. Have I researched the facts behind EDO? Yes. Have you?"


@ durrito2

19.01.2010 18:59

i think you're wrong to assert,with no evidence, that "The capitalist state is not threatenned by nor does it listen to Black Bloc!!"

why do they spend hundreds of millions of dollars/euros/pounds each year to 'combat' us?
for what other reason do they build their fortresses? in genoa, were they not hiding from the blac bloc, who could have broke in, and one person did?
did they not kill a person that day?
in london, at the g20, did the police not again work to a political agenda?
did they not murder a man too?
come on, they are scared of us, and they know it.
we stand for their destruction, their end. they do not welcome us or those that support us. they create laws to stop us, in copenhagen, they rushed through a law to stop us. so where is your evidence to the contrary?

where do you really stand? do you want revolution or not? or do you just want to "critique" everything?
some people try hard for change, what have you ever done?



19.01.2010 22:58

fran i am sorry but you are deluding yourself if you think black bloc are a threat to the system. I say again i respect you motivation and aims but please, the system spends very little against that threat as it is so insignificant. an occasional demo is nothing to them, small change in the grand scheme of things. 300 people out of a population of half a million in the Brighton area? And a small police operation. Maybe you just want to smash things but i and those like me ( who yes are also activists but in the community) want to fundamentally change society and that means taking nearly every person with us.

We as people who want change have become wrongly alienated from society. Why make it worse with masks and ballys and threats of violence? It gets you no more support. This is the politics of defeat, that believes in it's heart that it can not win over the majority so it will try and force it's will as a tiny tiny tiny minority. This leninism/fascism/blanquism/ whatever you call it (its is NOT working class anarchism!) , is the politics of the minority not of the majority and it will not create a movement that can shut down EDO let alone create a majority who wish to create a new equal society.


Holding the directors personally responsible has worked for animal rights...

20.01.2010 00:40

Animal rights activists have a long history of holding the directors personally responsible and taking the fight straight to them. They are the decision-makers and they really don't like it when it gets personal. Why should they be allowed to relax in their posh houses while the bombs they make are destroying other people's houses?

This strategy has proved very successful in the past, resulting in the state clampdown on animal rights we have seen recently.

Not saying I disagree with Durruti's comments, just that there can be many different approaches all going on simultaneously.



20.01.2010 11:19

fran, you're unnecessarily aggressive to Dave; it might be better to just address his concerns rather than say "put up or shut up"! You challenge people to say what they've done, or they shouldn't criticise..."I'm a better anarchist than you..." go the words of the song! PLease, we're not in a playground of macho activist posturing are we!

As for D02, you're into mass movements, other people want to see large numbers of people empowered in small groups to be able to act separately or together. It's an age old debate, and I could call you delusional back, and also do the listing of why we shouldn't wait for a mass movement before taking action, but would that really get us anywhere?! I want to take action to change things now, not wait for a movement/working class uprising/etc - on a confrontational level and on a community activist level; sometimes I even have time to do direct support against the worst excesses of the system, but we all choose our focus. You do your thing, 'we' will do ours; hopefully we'll be able to respect other approaches (unless it comes to the time again when the socialists/communists turn on and kill their anarchist comrades). I believe this, without being an insurrectionary anarchist and whilst working as part of the community too, so try to avoid the stereotypes when there's diversity.


Seems to me...

20.01.2010 18:39

I don't want to sound condescending, I really appreciate the SmashEDO actions, even though i wasn't at this one.
We need to keep the diversity of tactics opened to us, and sometimes having a large group of black block type action is a productive thing to do. I have no doubt that the "de-commissioners" have done brilliantly, no question there, but...
as protests go, we need to constantly reevaluate our methods and improve them, and this is one of these very good example campaigns, which has the potential to close the factory down.

My thought is this:
if instead of having 500 people running around the city wearing black, we've had 500 people dressing up "respectfully" and going door to door delivering leaflets and explaining our agenda, well we could of covered every house in Brighton in an 8 hour period, we could of written a leaflet directed at non-activists, with a little post part which they could of signed and posted to the council, we could of had thousands of signatories, and that in turn could put pressure on the authrities to shut it down.

after a few time's of doing this, we could probably have enough support for a more "militant" action if it isn't shut.
as it stands, judging from the Argus (which i know isn't a real representation but...) we are not supported by virtually no one.

Now, to be fair, judging from the Argus, the whole of Brighton are a bunch of backward "hicks",with a vocabulary of about 10 words and with no social conscience. I know this isn't the case, but these actions seems to bring out the worst out of the most vocal NIMBYs.
I think we can do better, and don't get me wrong, I love running around causing disorder, getting hit by the cops and smashing shit up, but there is a time and a place for everything, and this is becoming too predictable to be effective.

Well done to the de-commissioners, and for that matter to everyone else who went, but i think we need a timeout to figure out where next!


pah lease

20.01.2010 20:17

i dont wanna rule anyone or tell them that anarchism is for them!
i wanna be left alone by the "system" which it does not do, so i want to smash it. at the same time, i wanna be part of small anarchist communities. millions are with me...evidently you are not.
and the governments of the world do actually spend hundreds of millions on security and lkaws and police and regulations and effort. if you were really part of this alternative movement, then you would know that to be true. i dont need to come on here...but recently i have noticed the need to propagandise on behalf of those of us that want to destroy the system whilst at the same time build our own communities. part of it is revenge against the system, and retaliation. do you understand that concept of revenge and retaliation? or is your life so far removed from the actual struggle that this violence is really alien to you?

thats what me reckons.......


Preaching to the converted

20.01.2010 22:33

I'm growing tired of people calling themselves anarchists and at the same time attempting to force people to agree with their point of view. Or otherwise saying "well fuck you, I'm right anyway."
The fact is that in this situation, short of literally destroying the factory, aggressive action will achieve nothing but piss off the majority of people. The only people who won't be annoyed are the people who already understand the issues. Stop preaching to the converted!

Deal with the issue - public apathy. Educate the people who either don't know or don't care about the problems. Rioting in front of them will not attract these types of people, nor will it generate positive publicity for us, the people taking action. And that's what's important if you want to change opinions - publicity. People spout opinions they've read in newspapers as if they were their own. Governments rise and fall because of what is written about them in The Sun. It's insane, but it's human nature to be influenced like this! It's known as 'The Hypodermic Needle Effect' - inject an idea and watch it spread. Our message needs to be spread and explained.

Look at the way any company markets itself against its competitors; Coke vs. Pepsi, Apple vs. Microsoft... their success and the loyalty from their customers lies in the amount of good things people hear, watch and read about any one of them. That's why companies advertise - it works. Well it's the same with opinions. Advertise your opinions, your ideas.

Taking violent action to pursue an agenda makes us no better than our Government. The reason the political and economical establishment has ruled our lives us for so long is that too few people understand or even contemplate the alternatives. At best we hear "I'm sick of this country, I'm moving to Australia" rather than "I'm sick of this country, what can I do to improve it?"

Anarchy isn't about revenge, it's about unconditional equality for all. Teach your theories and ideas to people, to every bloody person you speak to! The ideas will spread.

Alex Spaghetti

@ builder

21.01.2010 00:22

i was simply asking him to explain a little more about what he/she'd done in the "movement". its not about "better than you" and i cant believe you would credit me with such immature points of view. personally, in my opinion, im fucked off with people whinging about violence when the real violence is happening with our tax money by c**ts that we despise but are too "sectarian" to actually fight against. wars are killing THOUSANDS, way more than any anarchist insurrection has ever killed or would ever kill. if people dont agree with me thats fine, but lets not pretend a dart towards some twitty, nosey, in-the-way photographer, is a suicide bomber in a mall or shopping center. for fucks sake. im ready for the armed insurrection - am i completely alone? if so...leave me be....and stop getting het up about my comments. im just little old me,remember. but i know who my comrades are....



21.01.2010 10:51

Armed insurrection? With who, three hundred other people? As Alex Spaghetti pointed out, militancy more often than not just turns people off, when what we need are actions that generate support from people who wouldn't otherwise give a shit... Isolation won't get you anywhere.


diversity 2

21.01.2010 11:01

fran I don't know you so all I can take is your words here, and that's how they came across. Glad you're not immature! ;-)

I completely agree about violence. A. damaging property is not violence, and nor is pushing the police back or dressing a particular way! B. self-defence is exactly that - don't judge people differently just because they are protesting and wearing masks C. don't forget the more hidden violence of the state and the corporations - if you walk down the high street and look carefully, most of the stuff in shop windows is steeped with violence and blood (of the exploited, the dispossessed of land and livelihood, the poisoned...all from our consumption patterns)

It's not aggression to march masked up and try to forcefully get to EDO. You might believe petitions and lobbying the council might close EDO as public apathy is the problem; I'd say nonsense, your belief in the justness of the system is from cuckoo-land.

PS Though it's important to be proportionate about the violence of bombs and arms manufacture, and a dart, I still don't agree with that shit.
PPS I'm an anarchist and I'm not telling you what to think shock horror.

the builder

@ builder

21.01.2010 13:29

@ builder. ok lets leave it at that.
i accepted my initial "outburst" about the dart was perhaps a bit "thuggish".
in hindsight, i wont change my views on the photo-journo though, because we all know the risks on a demo, especially one that the police will try anything to stop.
violence this and violence that. its a strange one because we always find ourselves coming to it. in chile right now and in greece and mexico, our anarchist brothers and sisters are literally fighting with bombs and guns and seriously messing with the state and the police. it wont change anything overnight, it may never change anything at all, but its about fighting for freedom. if we dont fight, if we dont even bother to fight, what's the point, because as you said yourself.nothing else will change it.

imagine if you will, one of the following happening:

1) a massive bomb out side EDO is detonated and crumbles the bulding to the ground, while no one is there or near by. EDO is over.

2) take one of the directors, of which there aren't that many left now since another one fucked off after the big demo last year, hostage and kill the c**t. EDO is over.

3) attack the site with guns and petrol bombs, laying siege to those inside and getting them out one by one and then raising the building to the ground.

these are the types of things armed insurrectionists could do, as an idea and topic for debate, obviously. i wouldn't do these things or tell others to do them.

yes, this type of action would alienate those "public" that some of you want on side. well, here's the news. me and my comrades from mexico and chile and greece, dont give a flying fuck about the average public, as it is they who are as good as slaves as the powers that be are at being slave masters.
the 'average person', who's vote could possibly count towards shutting EDO, would not give a fuck when faced with the choice "do we bomb arabs under the pretence of anti-terror" or do "we close an arms component factory, lose a couple of jobs and millions in contracts and tax". what do you think most "public" will say?
they'll say what the fucking state and the corporate media tell them to say. the propaganda machine is so well oiled, it wouldn't matter if you had mother teresa come back form the dead and tell the world to close EDO right now. even that wouldn't faze the PR idiots in this beast of a country.
what im getting at is that without violence, EDO will never go.

ok the three examples i gave were purposely extreme, but can you deny that one or two of them would work?

violence can work. violence is harsh and brutal. and so is the world we're living in and particularly if you're palestinian, eh??


By the way...

21.01.2010 14:07

Smash EDO usea lot of different tactics, some very fluffy indeed. Apart from big demos etc there are weekly noise demos outside the factory, info stalls in town etc. Last year two petitions were handed in to the foreign office and to the Brighton and Hove council and a public meeting was held discussing the campaign with the public (even the Argus readers and EDO workers were officially invited!). If anyone wants to help building a mass movement there is plenty of space for people to contribute to these activities. Not that they seem to be half as effective...

Just saying...

In response

21.01.2010 23:43

Fran said:
"yes, this type of [violent] action would alienate those "public" that some of you want on side. well, here's the news. me and my comrades from mexico and chile and greece, dont give a flying fuck about the average public"

Why are you and your comrades' opinions any more valid than the people who you piss off by your actions? Yes, of course you understand why you're taking action better than the average Joe who complains about it, but you probably don't understand their point of view to a similar degree. Opinions are like noses - we all pick them and they're all different. No opinion is less valid than the last, which is why the important thing is to encourage people to agree with you.

We weren't born anarchists, it's a name for the opinions we've developed through our experiences. It's hypocritical, ill thought out nonsense to think that forcing anarchy upon a person or state will give them the freedom you think they want/need. It's an ideal that has to be reached through consensus.
The route to anarchy that you propose is one that involves leadership from a person or group to get you there. That isn't anarchy. It's just following a politician in combats instead of a suit, and one that promotes violence to reach a goal at that. That isn't any kind of 'freedom' I want to be a part of!

Your three extreme examples about bombs, guns etc are interesting. Yes any of them, if carried out successfully might achieve the goal of taking down EDO, but it's a short sighted goal. It doesn't change the fact that violence had been used to tackle violence (a very Governmental style indeed), nor would it do anything to sway public opinion in favour of whatever group of people carried it out. Those responsible would be portrayed as vandals, terrorists and so on. Putting your extreme example back into perspective, a protest which angers residents has exactly the same effects, just to a less extreme degree. Every time something like this happens it gives the Government, Mainstream Media and Resident Complainers something more to hate you for, taking the population another step further from understanding and agreeing with your views.

You say you don't care what people think, which is why people don't care what you say. Keep on violently hacking away at The System all you like, but you'll lose as much support as you gain. The System will not be beaten by violence. Trying to do so is handing it victory on a silver platter.

Alex Spaghetti

@ alex s.

22.01.2010 00:39

look, forget it. you're barking up the wrong tree with me on this stuff.
i dont wanna change anyone, i wanna be left alone.
however, the system, if you knew it so well as you describe, will not let us alone.
it wants a piece of every pie,
it stalks its enemies, the rebels amongst us,
it seeks us out and imprisons us or, in the case of some of our comrades, fucking kills them.
of this, what do you say?

that state killing is a figment of my imagination?

that we should argue capitalist ways out of existence?

get fucking real, and get off your arse. stop the talking and typing and start the action.
the world order waits for no one, not a petition or a banner or even a rock. it will not shift.
but, dearest alex s., the EDO factory is just a fucking shitty little factory selling components of death. and mark my words, it will be smashed.....

and of this assertion of mine and my comrades, what do you say?


Please Don’t Be So Heavy On Each Other

22.01.2010 01:52

Ahoy Comrades, please don’t be so heavy on each other. In the past three years, there has been a lot of effort, by so many peeps, put into the movement as a whole.

While there is always room for a bit more effort, the problem in recent years is that radical politics is just not part of the wider social, political and economic debates. Mainstream political parties have been so engaged in the ‘blame game’, that it controls an outright monopoly over any alternatives to the status quo governance structures.

While these poetical parties throw accusations at one another, the general public are caught up in a perspective that replacing a political party is a rational solution, as opposed to replacing The System itself.

However, although it’s quite a clever strategy, it’s also an indication of desperation. Causing a bit of perceived chaos within the governing structure is nothing more than a last resort to maintain control over the population with a numb, ‘soap opera’ atmosphere.

Now is the time, more than ever, to push forward, maintain solidarity and don’t give up.

One Love!


in response to in response

22.01.2010 02:35

I'm not comparing 'pissed off of Brighton' with a fascist, but the issue of opinions and respecting them is tricky. Sometimes I can talk to someone and try to change their opinion; this is unlikely ever to be in a situation such as this when we meet just once in strange circumstances. But then many people I hear bemoan that they can't even change the opinions of their families! And yes, I can understand why someone ends up voting for the BNP/working in an arms factory, ever mind ends up an active fascist/in a managerial position making bombs...but in the end, I don't want to change their mind, I want to stop them doing what they are doing, want to stop them denying another's right to life. I don't give a shit if they become more entrenched, because ultimately it's more important in my book to stop them beating or killing people for racist reasons, or making things that kill people far away. And yes, the opinion of a fascist is less valid - NO PLATFORM, NO PASARAN. During the Nuremberg trials, they did not accept the defence of 'if I didn't do this job, someone worse would do it'.

Whenever we are effective and changing things, whatever tactics we use, we will be villified by the mainstream, press, government, you name it. We cannot judge the validity of our tactis or ideas through the very society we are so desperate to radically change. Public opinion doesn't change things on it's own in any case.

the builder

DO2 and his mass movement

22.01.2010 11:06

Can we join your mass movement and learn from it, or is it in your head D02?

Perhaps its time to step back from the keyboard and show us how to do it.


If People Really Want to Get Involved...

22.01.2010 17:31

a lot of people have been talking like either we engage with the public try and build an effective mass movement or we "get off our arses" and i dont know, do radical actions/become a terrorist or something.

The 2 are not mutually exclusive. With regards to this debate, i believe in the necessity of a violent revolution (though not in its inevitability), but i beleive that it will only be made possible when there is a mass movement. A mass movement made up of small affinity groups of militant activists. Otherwise what is it? A load of people walking around on the streets peacefully then going home? thats not a demonstration, its just a day out, like a village fete. Or even more millions of people signed up as members of "the" Communist party? thats not a revolution, thats an email list

How to achieve a mass militant, decentralised movement? Organise demos and actions where we use militant tactics, publicise them and try and get more people involved. The "trying to get people involved" part is indeed the hard part. Trying to force anarchism on people is not going to help you in this. All you can do is keep it simple humanistic: there are people dying, its this companies fault, the police use violence to protect them so we need to be violent as well, do you want to come? if so great, if not try and give them something else to do so they can feel like they can contribute without getting their head kicked in.

The door to door flyering idea is great. People definitatly need to be doing this more, as well as many other antimilitarist community activism projects. But if we did have a flyer saying "come to brighton and help us give out flyers" do you think we'd get as many people as we do when we announce that we are prepared to use violence to shut these people down.

The "average person" is not a pacifist, i'm sorry but you do you think you're fooling. a mass movement without the participation of a few middle class liberal pacifists is probably still going to work just fine. Violence is essential to human nature, militarism isnt. thats the point.

But theres no point in any more of this internet forum debate bollocks. The antimilitarist network website is We have regular gatherings open to anyone to get involved, when the date for the next one is announced it will be on that website an possibly here as well. Then we can do all this "talking about where to go next" stuff, and actually go there, rather than just talking about it, or waiting for someone else to organise something so you can critique it.

We desperatly need more people to take an active part in the network and start organising in your local community, which means both taking action against local militaristic institutions as well as attracting the support of the public. It seems like there are a lot more dedicated antimilitarists out there than we ever see at our meetings. So please come to the next one with your enthusiasm, ideas, and yes even criticism. We are based on a horizontal framework, and the autonomy of groups and individuals within the network is absolute. For this reason we have a Safer Spaces policy in place at all our gatherings

Antimilitarist Network
- Homepage:

It occurs to me

22.01.2010 19:52

Rage against the machine are going to be playing a free gig sometime this year.
Can we ask them to play it in Brighton? we can get thousands (10s of) to smash EDO no?

They want to raise money for Shelter which is an institutional horrible charity (even though I guess necessary)
Can we incorporate some cause into that, maybe Rage against EDO?

Anyone has anyway to contact them?


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